ON THIS PAGE:
- Mike Rogers, crew boss and driver of the truck, confessed that the 1975 UFO sighting was a hoax in a recorded phone call on Apr 30, 2021.
- Mike alleged the recording was manipulated, then withdrew the accusation.
- Others have expressed doubt the recording is genuine, due to the apparent disjointed or meandering nature of the conversation. The evidence shows that the discussion follows a logical progression, allowing for Mike's occasional tangents (which can be found in any of his recent interviews).
- No one has come forward with evidence of tampering or proof that Mike's words were strung together to make him appear to say things he didn't really say.
Background
Producer Ryan Gordon, in a series of podcasts with Erica Lukes in July 2021 (as well as directly to Robert Sheaffer and myself), has described how he was in talks with Travis Walton since May 2020 to make a film or TV show about the experience. Gordon says that after he discovered Gentry Tower was used to hoax the event, he and Travis were planning to make a tell-all film instead. Further, Gordon told me in July 2021 that the show would be a behind-the-scenes "making of" the remake of Fire in the Sky, with Travis acting as a consultant on the remake - but that this would all be fake. The show would include Travis undergoing a hypnoregression in which he would "remember" that he had hoaxed the event and subsequently come to believe it really happened. In this way, the hoax could be revealed without Travis taking the blame. Whether or not Gordon had the necessary contacts to make such a show, this was his stated intent.
In April 2021 Mike Rogers learned that something was in the works, and apparently wanted to be part of it although he and Travis were barely on speaking terms. Mike claims that although Travis initially denied knowing who Ryan Gordon was, he had to admit they had been speaking for a year once Mike showed him forwarded emails the two had exchanged. [Mike Rogers, The Observation Deck, Oct 24, 2021]
Gordon and Mike Rogers both say they first met by coincidence at the official abduction site while Mike was there filming with MUFON. Gordon then texted Mike a photo of Gentry Tower as a hint that he knew of the hoax.
In April 2021 Mike Rogers learned that something was in the works, and apparently wanted to be part of it although he and Travis were barely on speaking terms. Mike claims that although Travis initially denied knowing who Ryan Gordon was, he had to admit they had been speaking for a year once Mike showed him forwarded emails the two had exchanged. [Mike Rogers, The Observation Deck, Oct 24, 2021]
Gordon and Mike Rogers both say they first met by coincidence at the official abduction site while Mike was there filming with MUFON. Gordon then texted Mike a photo of Gentry Tower as a hint that he knew of the hoax.
On April 30, Mike texted Gordon that he had "something like a secret to whisper in your ear."
He then called Gordon, who was driving at the time - he pulled over and began recording. The full audio was uploaded to YouTube on Jul 4, 2021. In the comments section, Gordon explains that both Mike and Travis were aware of his intention to release it, a month in advance. He emailed them the audio on June 8, followed by:
"On June 9, 2021 Travis Walton emailed me back and asked me not to release the audio as it had the very real possibility of destroying his 45+ years of hard work. For the next several days Travis Walton and I would talk about the release of the call to include a 2+ hour phone call between the two of us. As a side note Travis was always courteous and professional with me during this entire time." [Ryan Gordon comment, YouTube, ~Jul 4, 2021]
(Travis's professional relationship with Gordon was established when Gordon later released a courteous conversation between them that took place a few weeks later, to counter Travis's public allegations that he and Gordon barely knew each other.)
Gordon sent me this screenshot of Travis's email from Jun 27 where it's clear Travis knows the audio will be released, though he doesn't like the idea. (The second part of the email relates to Mike's assertion that Gordon took photographs of Travis's untidy house and emailed them to Travis - photos that Gordon told me Mike himself took - and is not relevant.)
"On June 9, 2021 Travis Walton emailed me back and asked me not to release the audio as it had the very real possibility of destroying his 45+ years of hard work. For the next several days Travis Walton and I would talk about the release of the call to include a 2+ hour phone call between the two of us. As a side note Travis was always courteous and professional with me during this entire time." [Ryan Gordon comment, YouTube, ~Jul 4, 2021]
(Travis's professional relationship with Gordon was established when Gordon later released a courteous conversation between them that took place a few weeks later, to counter Travis's public allegations that he and Gordon barely knew each other.)
Gordon sent me this screenshot of Travis's email from Jun 27 where it's clear Travis knows the audio will be released, though he doesn't like the idea. (The second part of the email relates to Mike's assertion that Gordon took photographs of Travis's untidy house and emailed them to Travis - photos that Gordon told me Mike himself took - and is not relevant.)
Gordon told me he released the call in the hope of getting sufficient views to convince "the network" to greenlight his show. (Regardless of the accuracy of this claim, no film or show was made.)
With Travis and Mike both getting cold feet about the call's imminent release, Mike offered several conflicting reasons for why he'd made the call (as outlined in Gordon's comment). I have seen some of these comments in screenshots of emails between them, as well as (now deleted) posts on Mike's Facebook page. Through June, Mike claimed that:
Gordon also says he sent both men a transcript of the call a few days before he released it, giving Mike the opportunity to fix any errors, which he did not do. Gordon claims Mike responded with: "As for how it may damage Travis Walton, his reputation or future, I DON'T CARE" and that Travis "will make up any stupid sounding story for money."
Gordon says that Mike "concoct[ed] the story about the call being manipulated". He says that the day after the call was made, they went to Gentry Tower (as well as the "official" abduction site). Gordon claims Mike walked him through where he parked the truck that night in 1975 in order for the hoax to play out, while Mike claims he has a recording from when they were at the official site, where he told Gordon "there was no way it could have been a hoax." Mike has never released that recording, if it exists.
With Travis and Mike both getting cold feet about the call's imminent release, Mike offered several conflicting reasons for why he'd made the call (as outlined in Gordon's comment). I have seen some of these comments in screenshots of emails between them, as well as (now deleted) posts on Mike's Facebook page. Through June, Mike claimed that:
- He'd only "confessed" in order to find out what Travis was "cooking up" with Gordon. From the screenshot Gordon sent me, Mike calls the phone call "sneaky", despite him being the person who initiated it and spontaneously confessing to the hoax, but more importantly he does not accuse Gordon of manipulating the audio he'd received a copy of 6 days earlier.
- The conversation he'd relayed between him and Travis did not take place before the 1975 event, but in 1977, and was actually "about the skeptics claims of it being a hoax".
Gordon also says he sent both men a transcript of the call a few days before he released it, giving Mike the opportunity to fix any errors, which he did not do. Gordon claims Mike responded with: "As for how it may damage Travis Walton, his reputation or future, I DON'T CARE" and that Travis "will make up any stupid sounding story for money."
Gordon says that Mike "concoct[ed] the story about the call being manipulated". He says that the day after the call was made, they went to Gentry Tower (as well as the "official" abduction site). Gordon claims Mike walked him through where he parked the truck that night in 1975 in order for the hoax to play out, while Mike claims he has a recording from when they were at the official site, where he told Gordon "there was no way it could have been a hoax." Mike has never released that recording, if it exists.
Analyzing the transcript
While those who claim the audio was manipulated point to the apparently meandering course of the conversation, it actually follows a logical progression:
- Mike begins by recalling where he was when he and Travis talked about creating a hoax.
- He then describes the night of the UFO sighting itself and reaffirms it was a hoax.
- Next he mentions Travis's brother Duane's attitude while Travis was missing.
- Gordon starts to explain how they can move forward with Mike's participation in the film.
- They discuss where and when to eat, and Mike refers to a new mural in Heber depicting Travis's experience.
- Mike expresses eagerness to talk, and to visit the site together.
TRANSCRIPT
Mike Rogers: All I can remember like is that, uh, we were talking in the woods one day, Travis and I, and uh, I remember leaving a chainsaw on a stump, okay, uh, he had a saw that he took his with him, because we were talking about creating a UFO hoax, okay. Ryan Gordon: Yeah. |
COMMENTS
Mike is recalling where he and Travis physically were when they discussed perpetrating the hoax. This would obviously be a memorable conversation. Later he will claim it was one of many conversations they had after the event (why then he'd remember this particular one is unclear). Mike remembers he left his chainsaw behind (in this interview [3:40] on July 7, where Mike is in damage control mode claiming the conversation happened in 1977, he explains he went back for the saw weeks later). |
MR: I don't know how the UFO got there, okay, but I remember that when I drove, when I was driving the truck and he jumped out, it was all deliberate, it was all a staged thing, okay.
RG: Yeah. MR: And he ran up there and uh, there was something, there was something about the UFO, uh, not being real although - it looked real. And of course- |
It would seem from this comment that Mike did not know what the UFO was, only that he was told to stop the truck at a particular place where it would be seen.
Mike is clearly not talking here about "the skeptics' claims of it being a hoax", which is how he will later characterize it. He is quite clearly recounting what happened on the night of the UFO sighting: that he stopped the truck at a prearranged spot, and that the UFO looked real but was not. |
RG: Well basically what you're saying is, you and Travis together hoaxed this.
MR: Yeah. I mean Travis's brother Duane helped him. RG: I believe that. MR: Philip Klass actually suspected that uh, Duane was part of it. RG: Yeah. MR: I mean he was his protector and uh, and he was saying weird things on that Fred Sylvanus interview – “I have nothing, I don’t fear at all for his life, I know where he’s at, blah blah blah, you know? RG: I know that was really, that was really bizarre. |
Mike explicitly confesses to the hoax, and also implicates Duane Walton.
Mike is correctly pointing out that Philip Klass suspected Duane's involvement due to his lack of concern for Travis's wellbeing expressed during the Sylvanus interview. |
MR: And I thought all along that he was just trying to uh, how would you say it, make himself believe that his brother was okay.
RG: Yeah, that's what you had told me. MR: Yeah. |
Here Mike is saying that at the time, he did not realize Duane was involved. Duane's lack of concern has been explained away by Travis as Duane putting on a brave front for their mother.
|
RG: I don't know, I mean if - Let's say today you could walk me through the entire thing of how and why and blah blah blah, how the process would work, just so you're aware, how the process would work is I would put–
MR: Well let’s go out to the site, you know. And let’s have dinner and all that stuff, you know? Because I definitely need to talk about it- |
Before things go any further, Gordon attempts to tell Mike how they can move forward so that Mike can be involved in the film. (Presumably he's about to mention contracts, NDAs, filming, etc.)
Mike immediately takes Gordon up on the suggestion they visit the site. Gordon says this visit took place the following day, after they shared a meal. Mike suggests dinner... |
RG: Well, we can have dinner at that - if we're gonna go out to the site, we can just have dinner at that Casa Ramos right there.
MR: Yeah, yeah, that's right. RG: I don't know if it's good. MR: There’s another one down the way because that one is close - there's another one down the way. RG: Albertos? MR: Yeah, Alberto's. RG: Alberto’s is good, I've been there. MR: But that's like, you're supposed to eat outside or take it with you. [chuckles] RG: Yeah, I'm not sure if they have indoor dining because of COVID, I'm not really sure. MR: Well, I looked in there and they have indoor dining - they have indoor tables and stuff, but for some reason they don't use them. RG: Maybe it might be a COVID thing. MR: [unclear] we went by there and stopped there first, and they just had a window where you could order at, you know? RG: Yeah, well all Alberto’s have that, that's part of their business. MR: Yeah, anyway. The other place, it's actually where we ate though - RG: That Casa Ramos? |
... so they discuss where to eat.
|
MR: You know by that phone booth?
RG: Oh, okay. MR: Yeah. RG: Do you know who painted that big mural? That's new, by the phone booth? MR: I have no idea. In fact my friend Richard, he just about two hours ago texted me, uh, what it was, a phone text, okay? RG: Yeah. MR: He texted me a picture of that, uh, of that, you know? But I'd already seen it, of course. I've seen it a couple of times, you know. RG: Yeah, that's new. MR: Yeah. RG: Within the last couple of months. MR: I don’t know who painted it. RG: I don't know, I have no idea. MR: Yeah. I'll tell you this, it isn't very good [laughs]. It's nothing like - you know, I used to paint signs, and my signs were just perfect and of course my illustrations are, as much as I can possibly make them, of course. But uh, yeah. That was very poor artistry, okay. RG: Yeah. Well, let's continue to talk more – MR: [unclear] the guy has that beam like three or four feet wide, you know? [laughs] And the way he painted Travis is really crappy too, you know. It's really not very good at all. RG: Somebody got paid. MR: You know I’ve looked at it, I’ve sit there and looked at it and [I thought], what the hell? |
The mention of Casa Ramos in Heber reminds Mike of the new mural of the UFO event near the phone booth where Travis made a call after being "returned" by the aliens.
Mike is an artist and used to paint signs and billboards (he talks about it extensively in this interview from March 2021). He is obviously proud of his work, and here offers his opinion on the poor artistry of the mural. Note that while Mike scoffs at the idea that the beam that hit Travis was 3 or 4 feet wide, Mike has recently admitted he never saw the beam, or Travis being hit by it. His own art depicts a narrow beam. |
RG: I need to let you go, Mike. I'm just sitting here in my truck.
MR: Yeah, Yeah, well, yeah, yeah, well if you get back up here just let me know and– RG: I'll get back up, but even if I were to head back right now I wouldn't get back until 10:30 or so. MR: Oh hell no, don't worry about that. RG: I'll get back up tomorrow because my RV's still there at Honda. MR: Oh yeah? RG: Yeah. MR: Okay RG: Alright, I'll give you a call tomorrow. MR: Alright. At least we could meet, huh, and have some dinner together. [laughs] RG: Should be able to, yeah. MR: And talk about the site and all that stuff. RG: Yeah, yeah. Alright. MR: Okay. Alright. RG: I'll catch you later. MR: Well, I'll talk to you later. Alright. RG: Okay, see you, Mike. Bye. |
Mike wants to meet Gordon when he's back in town. Gordon says he'll be back tomorrow and will call to arrange a meal.
Mike reiterates he wants to "talk about the site and all that stuff". |
(c) Charlie Wiser 2022