AÑJALI & THE TRANSCENSION PROJECT

Transcripts

"Ow you stepped on my toe"

INTRODUCTION​
Do not sue
TIMELINE
How it unfolded
TRANSCRIPTS
​Main appearances
TRANSCRIPTS
The victims
TMI
Medical & drug use
​TUNNEL TEAM
Expedition updates
TRANSCENDENCE
Apocalypse survival
THIRDENNY
Mini-blogs
Picture
Describing Lavvy's mantis-mandible; receiving praise; showing off kitty
NOTE: Additional transcripts involving "Wayne" (Bryan) who stepped forward with his version of events in February 2022 are here.
Transcripts of Anjali's initial Reddit post, interviews, hypnoregression, and press conference are provided here in chronological order. Reading from top to bottom all the way through will induce a 3rd density migraine. The enlightened 4th density way to use this page is simply search it for keywords, as it's one long document. For example, search for "ow you stepped on my toe".

NOTE: While Anjali's words are transcribed to the best of my ability, the interviewers' questions in most cases are not accurately transcribed because I couldn't be bothered. I've just given the gist of the question. Small talk and other irrelevancies are also omitted.

Mar 1, 2021 Retired Defense Intelligence Officer with a CE5 Experience to Share

The link above goes to the repost Jul 6, 2021, on Reddit. Original at the Wayback Machine. Below, deleted text in [red]. Added text in blue.

Retired Defense Intelligence Officer with a CE5 Experience to Share. I am the original source of this content; this is my first post to reddit. Sharing my experience with you changes my life, as I now have to own what I am telling you. Here is my story. [Be respectful and I'll answer your questions.] (REPOSTED ORIGINAL FROM r/aliens)

PREFACE: This is a repost from the original, which appeared in r/aliens early March, 2021. Reposting here allows me to answer questions and respond to comments below. I was unable to do so in the r/aliens community due to irreconcilable differences with the mods. Even though some of the information has become more illuminated since this original posting, it appears here without updates, in its entirety. This content is no longer available on r/aliens as I deleted it on 06 Jul 2021.
 
Before you read this information, below, please be aware that there is a large body of material out there now regarding my experience and the beings' message, that helps to clarify some of the information below that was originally presented early March, 2021. Please continue reading from here. This is only a very brief introduction to a much larger discussion needed, is only meant to begin a conversation, to stimulate your interest in learning more about what the beings want us to understand.
 
Thank you for your time, and for listening. Be well and be present, brothers and sisters in consciousness.
 
Mindfully yours,
 
Añjali 🌱
 
It is a frustrating experience when a u/ posts an encounter or sighting that happened years ago, ie. when they were a kid, or when they used to live there or work here or went to this place or knew those people or all of the above. Personally, I am so eager for truth that I want the event they're relaying to have happened now, not in some time long ago. I want to feel connected to it, like we are making some progress and things are really happening now. Understand me?
 
Well, if you can relate, I am sorry for what I am about to do. However, I assure you things are indeed happening.
 
I joined reddit in May 2018 after a series of profound and life-changing experiences that began in January 2017, and culminated in first-person contact in January 2018. I wrestled with my experiences for months, only confiding in and processing with my best friend, my daughter, and a close friend I ended up inadvertently involving. I needed more. I needed understanding and community. I turned to reddit after four months of wandering alone in ways I don't know how to impress upon you, and though I have found community, I am still searching for anyone who has had the experiences I have had, because I think it is crucial to understanding what's happening in the world and what our place and role is in it all in the end.
 
My background and expertise is in defense intelligence. I have held some of the highest clearances with read-ons that exist in our nation, special compartmented information so classified that only 12 intelligence officers at a time are able to have access to and knowledge of the information. (edit: this is not a Majestic 12 reference, and should not be confused with it, as it is not interchangeable) To become one of the 12, you've gotta really be in need. All of this is to protect the sources [and their reveal] from being revealed. It is the level of intel that assets/people die from being identified by name, date, location, etc.. These are assets, but more importantly, they are people with families who love them, and for the risk they take to help the U.S., they must be protected at all costs. If you reveal intel that gets an asset killed, you're going to have a very difficult time for the remainder of your life. And they're going to know if it was you, because there are only a handful of you, so they will definitely find you in time, and they'll make short work of it. They'll be motivated.
 
I tell you this not only to build a little credibility, but to also explain that I am not here to divulge any classified information. I took an oath to protect the United States constitution, its people, and its interests. Frankly, anyone here claiming to be divulging classified information can seriously get fucked. (insider tip -- they're most likely lying). See my comment here:
 
https://www.reddit.com/r/aliens/comments/lo9b7o/people_who_have_relatives_or_friends_working_in/go5ri3w?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
 
for further elaboration wrt my position on this. Regardless, what I am going to tell you is much more interesting than any intelligence I have ever read or written, and is not related to my previous line of work.
 
To build further credibility before I begin, one of my positions in intel meant I worked with the Joint Chiefs of Staff and Combatant Commanders. I wrote talking points for the Secretary of Defense. I wrote executive summaries for the White House. I have sat in fortressed rooms with a handful of very powerful people, and [they trusted me] I was trusted, you understand?
 
I [am] have been trusted because I'm trustworthy. However, I am going to tell you things that are going to make you question whether you should trust me. I understand that, and I would put my experience through scrutiny as well. I have put my experience through scrutiny, repeatedly, in an internal battle I never imagined I would have to wage, in question of my own recollection, intellect, and mental soundness. On the other side of that, I can tell you my experience with complete confidence in what I am saying. In the intel world, that's a standard that must be met. I tell you with utter sincerity, that standard of confidence has been met here.
 
In addition, I am going to tell you things that you have always wanted to hear from someone living and accessible, and you may be tempted to accept everything I tell you without question. Don't do that either, for anything you hear, here or anywhere else. Always critique, always asked difficult questions, always keep an open mind. Do those three things, and the truth will become evident to you as evidence stacks up. With all that said, I am going to tell you the truth as best as I can, with absolute confidence in what I am saying. It is up to you whether you want to extend me the same trust that has been extended to me by some of the greater men and women who have known me. I cannot make you see the truth in what I tell you; you have to see the truth for yourself.
 
It is important to head-off the inevitable criticism that since I am a talented writer, my story must be fictional. Folks, I am a [very] talented [award-winning] writer, and have been honing my craft all of my life. I was born with a propensity toward vocabulary and reading comprehension that surpassed my peers. I have written several books, and have been lucky enough to publish one thus far. I've authored numerous articles in newsprint, journals, magazines. I've written collegiate curriculum and military center of excellence curriculum. I've written hundreds of government documents. One doesn't get to write for [the] SECDEF when one can't [weave] present a story, and that's just how it is. In the end, it is to your benefit that you get to hear this experience from someone who knows how to communicate. It may even be why you are hearing this from me rather than from someone else -- because I [know how to] communicate effectively, and this matter deserves effective communication. Perhaps that is part of their logic in choosing me for contact.
 
All of the events I am about to relay to you took place in Southern California from January 2017 through February 2018, with the vast majority of directly applicable events happening in the final three months of that period. I had been in SoCal working with U.S.Marine Corps executives, as a defense intelligence expert contracted to a schoolhouse command. In January 2017, I became deathly ill and was admitted to hospital, and quickly moved to the ICU. I would spend two full months as an inpatient, fighting for my life and for physical recovery.
 
This is not a ghosts sub, so I will be brief on this point that sets the stage for the rest of everything I need to tell you. When I was in ICU, I was the youngest person on the ward, and by far in the best shape of my life, after extensive training and rucking through the Mojave with operatives and with contractors who were all veterans like myself. I was physically capable, and I knew my way around the desert. I was agile and constantly working to be better. But I was always being set back by what turned out to be a brewing underlying condition that nearly killed me and led to my hospitalization. So it was on day 5ish of my ICU stay that I had my first visitor.
 
I was laying there listening to the beeps and ticks of machines supporting me, my respirations hovering around 4 per minute all day. There was a growing inclination among medical staff that I ought to be intubated, when an old woman came into my room and stood by the wall, watching me. I asked my nurse, "who is that woman?," my eyes fixated on the visitor. My nurse said, "what woman?"
 
"The woman watching me," I said. I couldn't lift my arm or move my hand to point, because my illness had caused severe quadriparesis at the time, so my nurse scanned the room and said, "there is nobody here, honey."
 
I watched the old woman watch me for a moment, when it hit me all at once who this woman was. Hit me isn't quite right. While I had been making intense eye contact with her, an image entered my mind, with all this information encoded in it, data, that downloaded when I received it. Best way I know to explain my experience. I received an image, and now I knew who she was. She was a patient next door to my room. And she had just died. I told my nurse. My nurse wasn't having it. "No, honey, no one has died, everyone is okay."
 
I insisted, "She is right here and she's gone. I see her."
 
While my nurse was refuting my claim a second time, the code for the old woman came over the ward intercom. A flurry of medical staff whipped through the ward and into her room next to mine. The docs and nurses began every life saving effort they had available. Their efforts to resuscitate her were futile, of course, and I knew they would be. She was already gone, and somehow she was standing in my room and had told me before our technology could detect it,. She had been standing right in front of me, unseeable to everyone else in the room. As I lingered between life and death, I thought about the woman often.
 
That day, after the code announcement and flurry of activity that drew my eyes to the door, I looked back to where the woman had been standing and she was gone. I would be visited two other times over a period of a couple of days, as two other patients died in ICU. Apparently, according to my nurses, this can happen when you're dying -- you can be visited by the souls around you that are vacating their bodies. For this reason, they did not intubate me. They knew I was lingering, and thought I would just give up and die if they intubated me, as that would require putting me back in a coma. So, I witnessed a parade of departing souls, and it marked the beginning of a profound change in me that would link to a CE5. I won't go into detail here wrt the other departing visitors. There just isn't room in this post.
 
After release from hospital, the dead still came by to see me at home. They came from different places, different times, and they would stare at me, waiting for me to talk to them, to acknowledge them, before they would tell me what they were doing there or who they were. Our home began experiencing a series of activity that couldn't be explained. Everyone who lived in the house experienced something once I came home -- seeing apparitions, hearing disembodied voices or sounds, feeling touched, witnessing inanimate objects move, etc.. For 9 months, there was seemingly unexplainable activity in our home. And one night, it escalated in a way that has set my life on a remarkable course.
 
One night in mid December 2017, I was watching a movie with my 21-year-old daughter, when, instead of an apparition of a departed soul appearing in the room, the apparition of an extraterrestrial being appeared.
 
Now, listen, I know this sounds crazy as hell. I know it all sounds crazy, which is exactly why I haven't ever put it in writing before this moment. When I looked over to the right of the television and saw an extraterrestrial standing in the corner looking at me, I questioned my sanity. Immediately. I analyzed everything, and would later toil over it for weeks, months, now years. All I can say to assuage doubt or skepticism is that I have been found to be of sound mind by all of my doctors (and unfortunately, due to my health, I happen to have numerous specialists), [and great and powerful minds have trusted me with life and death intel. I just want to remind you, that's all]. I don't shake easily, and this rattled me. I deliberated for months before even being willing to look for community by joining reddit. It is a norm in the intel community that we have [very] light footprints online, avoid talking about our past work. And I was concerned about [my] security clearance [for] future adjudications [which added to my hesitancy to talk about this] should I return to government service, adding to my reluctancy to discuss this. Now, with this post, I officially retire any future career in the industry. So with that said, an apparition of an alien was suddenly in the corner of my bedroom.
 
You can imagine that I was startled, despite being visited by apparitions of the deceased on occasion. I can't believe I just typed that. I was sitting in bed on the left side of the bed, facing the TV across the room, and my daughter was beside me on my right, also watching TV. The being appeared quite suddenly in the corner to the right of the TV.
 
In startled reaction, as soon as the being appeared, I gasped loudly, my arm shooting out in front of my daughter, putting her behind me a bit. It was an automatic reaction. She was frightened by what I had done, and as I explained what I was seeing, we oddly both began to relax. Within a minute, perhaps even briefer, we were completely relaxed. Not a 'normal' reaction, no?
 
The being was humanoid, and had light purple/lavenderish skin, smooth. His body was spindly, with long, thin arms and legs, a long thing [sic] torso, long thin fingers. His head was oblongish horizontally, bulbous and oversized for his slender humanlike shoulders and long thin neck. I was unable to guesstimate his height, due to having nothing to scale for what I was seeing. You see, he was not only standing there, it was like I was looking into some of the space around him, that wasn't to scale to my room. He was showing me him standing before a window, with a vision of a planet or moon or something behind him in the distance, and there was a longer window to the right of him. His height was a mystery, but if I had to guess, I would say at that time that he appeared to be around 4' in height; I just couldn't be sure.
 
After an initial establishment of contact, it was clear this being was here to deliver a message. The message wasn't for me; I was to let others know, and there were others like me that he (or maybe they?) was communicating with who were also supposed to let others know. He showed me a network of people across the globe whom he was also communicating with, demonstrating our interconnectedness, telling me there were others, I'm not alone.
 
The way he would communicate with me is, he would send me an image directly into my mind, and it was encoded with information that came directly to me when I saw it. If I had to describe it in terms of something more relatable, such as an iOS exchange, I would say that, from an outside source, I received a virtual image with encrypted metadata that upon delivery, automatically downloaded that metadata to my iOS, where I could inspect it. That is the best way I know to describe the exchange. And the message that downloaded, as I understood it, was this:
 
Humans must evolve, and we aren't doing it quickly enough. Our use of language is what is holding us back as a species, because it is limited to words and speech and our knowledge of diverse languages, even our muscle memory and pallet. It is the multitude of language on earth that has hampered our evolution by hindering our ability to communicate with one another. Within individual human languages, the nuances lead to miscommunications. There is nearly always room for subjective interpretation, and too often ego-biased misinterpretation. Our current human language capability is simply inefficient, and primitive. It leaves room for bias, fear, selfishness, and invites destructive thought, leading to destructive action.
 
Therefore, we must learn to communicate with each other in the manner in which he was communicating with me --- an encrypted image that instantly downloaded metadata to my iOS, my brain. It is imperative to our evolution that we learn to do this, as it will unite humanity's ability to communicate with one another as a race. This will put us on a path that creates peace for humanity, removing barriers. Peace is essential for our continued existence, and evolving will give us the capability to communicate with our astronomical neighbors, which must occur.
 
He was very clear that there is an urgency, and that we must listen.
 
And then, as suddenly as he had arrived, he departed, and the communication ended.
 
Skipping the details of all of the shock, awe, processing, mania, self-questioning, introspection, interrogation, and existential mind-losing I experienced following this initial contact, just imagine the most intense situation, and that's probably pretty close to what I put myself through. And I would see him two more times, in early and mid-January 2018, and his message became more complex with each visit, as if he was delivering a bigger message in smaller, more consumable bites.
 
The second visit was much like the first, in that it began suddenly while in my bedroom, repeated the message of the first visit wrt the urgent evolution of human communication, and then expanded to say that humanity was running out of time, that a crucial period was coming to an end, and we needed to prepare by focusing on changing our communication method and language use to speak to others as he was speaking to me. There was more to the visit, but I cannot possibly post all of the details here, so those are the highlights. The contact was briefer than the first, and as suddenly as it had begun, it was once over.
 
The third visit was much like the first two, in that it began suddenly, repeated the message of the first two visits, and then expanded to go as far as to say that humanity's survival actually depends on our success in evolving our communication method as he had explained. He said an end of an era, or maybe a time, was coming, and we essentially better get to work on this. He iterated that I was to share this with others, tell people. The contact took place while I was sitting by the backyard fire pit with my daughter. This entire contact is one that deserves deep exploration, but I cannot do it all here in a single post. What I can say right now is that my daughter and I lost several hours that night that remain unaccounted for, no matter how we reexamine the night. Neither one of us remember this visit ending, but simultaneously roused ourselves from staring into a pit of white coals that had been a nicely stocked fire what felt like no more than half-an-hour ago. It had actually been nearly four hours earlier. In another post, at another time, I will elaborate further. There is too much to tell here and do it any sort of justice.
 
I experienced a constant re-evaluation of the being, his visits, his messages, how those messages had begun to sound like warnings, how those warnings made me question my sanity. After some time, I finally got my feet on the ground. My interests and values began to evolve rapidly. My worldview blossomed in a way that was conducive to exploring what the being had said. I began meditating multiple times daily. I explored and deliberated. I gave myself time. I waited. I still don't know what I was waiting for.
 
The waiting ended on Sunday, [February 20, 2018] January 21, 2018. (EDIT: Please see my correction and explanation regarding date, here:
 
https://www.reddit.com/r/TranscensionProject/comments/mwccmq/date_of_contact_correction/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
 
I was having coffee with a friend of mine from LA who is CEO/founder of a successful software engineering company. It was late morning at a favorite place of mine in the high desert of the Mojave, and we were nearly wrapping things up when a couple walked in and sat in the lounge area where my friend and I were sitting. They had bright, open faces, and upon sitting, immediately began conversing with us. They were married, Wayne and Trisha, and lived near by. They were talkative and authentic, and it was refreshing to make new friends, so it wasn't odd that I would want to stick around and talk with them after my friend hit the road back to his home on the coast.
 
After some time continuing our talk, another couple entered the coffeehouse and joined us. They were friends of Wayne and Trisha's, but I have no recollection at all what their names may have been. We all carried on, having great chemistry, when Wayne abruptly asked me what I thought of ‘aliens’. I said, "Well, I think about them every day, and I love the fuck out of them. Why?" With utmost sincerity, he asked, "Would you like to meet some?"
 
Wayne said he had seen a lot of UFO activity around his property, which happened to include an entire mountain. He was out exploring one night, and said he had physical contact with an alien being, and they told him they had a base within the mountain. They told him they meant him no harm. The next thing he knew, he was standing in his home beneath an archway that separates one section of his home from another. He had zero recollection of how he got there. He said this began an obsession that was out of control, and therefore, with military-grade camouflage gear and construction equipment, he secretly (ie. without government eyes on his effort) excavated a tunnel into the mountain, in an effort to find the alien base. He said he had found it. He wanted me to see it. Without hesitation, I said yes.
 
All five of us met at Wayne and Trisha's home. Wayne walked me down the path that led to a shed that partly obscured the area that was essentially undetectable until you were right on it, due to his camouflaging efforts. The men donned headlamps and clicked them on, before Wayne pulled back the camo curtain and revealed a tunnel tall enough for me to stand straight in but low enough that I hunched a little anyway as I stepped in behind Wayne. His friend followed, the two wives trailing behind us.
 
The tunnel was dark and rustic, but it was well excavated, narrow, rugged, cool, dry as a bone. We walked for several minutes with only their headlamps. It wasn't well thought out, in retrospect, but I hadn't ever been in a situation quite like this, and their headlamps were more than sufficient to light our way. After several minutes of walking on a slight decline down, there appeared to be light coming from ahead, and as we went on, there was no question about it -- there was light coming from ahead.
 
We round a corner, and not more than twenty feet in front of Wayne and I stood four humanoid beings, located within what appeared to be some sort of alcove within their base.
 
There were three extraterrestrials I can only describe as the tall whites -- humanoid, they were approximately 6'6" tall, all of them seeming to be relatively the same height. Their skin was so incredibly white and luminescent, it appeared to glow with light while simultaneously not emitting any ambient light. I don't know if that makes sense, but it was as if they were made of light that was contained within the boundaries of their skin. Their hair was white. They had long, slender bodies, with shoulders more broad like a human, hands like a human. Faces like a human. They wore a form-fitting black body suit of some sort that covered their arms, legs, torso, and scooped down from their slender necks. On their presumably human-like feet, they wore footwear I would call black boots. Two were facing us, and a third was behind them, slightly visible.
 
The fourth being stood before the two tall whites, facing them, back partially to us. This being was approximately 4' tall, humanoid, a classic grey in that it had smooth grey skin, a thin and spindly frame with long, thin arms and legs, a thin torso, a longer thin neck, long thin hands with long thin fingers, an oversized head with features that include oversized dark eyes, slits for nostrils, an unsubstantial, thin mouth, hairless, no visible ears. He turned slowly to face us.
 
There was a moment when we first assessed one another, a brief second in which I got the distinct feeling they were surprised to see me with Wayne and Trisha. Everyone -- us, them -- stood very still in that initial moment. Then, with ease, the grey communicated with me, conveying directly to me through imagery, "Oh, hello Añjali, we've been meaning to talk with you again." I stepped past Wayne and walked right up to him as if it was the most natural reaction in the world. I felt no fear. I was filled only with awe and peace, and a deep-rooted hope. I have no explanation for this.
 
It became apparent quickly that the grey was in charge, per se. He told Wayne that he and the others had to leave and that I was going to stay there and talk with them for a while. Wayne, who was still standing in the tunnel and had not stepped into their space, was distressed by the idea of leaving me there. He didn't want to go. They allowed him to stay in the tunnel while I went with them into another area, but the others had to leave. Trisha and their friends left without question. Later, I would find that they had simply walked back to the house without another thought about it.
 
The grey led me down a corridor to a tall, wide half-circle door approximately 7' high at its highest point. The door opened, sliding from left to right, recessing into the wall. On the other side of the door stood a being, and it was looking down at me. As soon as our eyes met, I knew who this being was. This was *my* being. *The being.* It was undeniable, and I gasped for breath.
 
I had been quite mistaken regarding the size of this magnificent lavender-skinned being with whom I had been communicating for some time. They were approximately 7'6" to 8' tall, not tiny as I had thought. Though much larger, the body was much like a grey in its general lankiness, but the torso was slightly more substantial than a grey's, with broader shoulders more like a human would have proportionately, and a large, bulbous head that is shaped much like an oblong mushroom cap. Their eyes were large, nose slightly more prominent than a grey's, a thin mouth, an expression of recognition.

[I say their intentionally. The sex gender sense I got was one of fluidity; neither a male nor a female but somehow biologically, reproductively something else that I am conceptually unfamiliar with as a human. The being was a they, with a slight lean toward the female.]
 
I don't remember a lot beyond stepping through the doorway and looking up at the being. Most of what I remember from there occurred while I was on my back, supine, either floating in the air or laying on a table that I was unable to feel beneath me. Above me were the figures and faces of several extraterrestrials, some of whom I recognized and others I did not. Here they spoke to me.
 
Their message was complex, and I will shorten and simplify it here. They said that what we think is going on here isn't what's really going on. They implored me to remember things, such as, "Remember who you are," and "Remember why you're here," and reminding me that I've forgotten what's happening here, and that I must transcend and remember.
 
Everything that I say here are my words. They sent me encoded images, and I did my best to understand what those images were saying, to remember what info I received from it, how my human consciousness understood what it had received. This is the best I can do in this finite post:
 
They said that we are coming to an end of an era, essentially. There is a council or group or some chartered alliance that initially consisted of seven members representing seven planetary governments that oversee human life on earth. This is some sort of task they have. Some time ago, two of the members left the union because of poor human behavior and how our behavior has had negative consequences in other places that exist right here where we are that are undetectable to us at this time. The two members that left were hostile to our continued existence, but agreed to leave the council(?) and leave the task of human watching to the remaining five members. Recently (I cannot quantify recently in terms of years, but I had the sense that it meant in the last centuryish), we had become such a lousy bunch of humans and had caused such irreparable harm in other places that two additional members had not only left the council, but had joined with the other two prior members, and the four together are coming. They are coming to Earth, and they are finished with the current human experiment.
 
The remaining three members on the council are outnumbered, and humanity's days are [numbered] ending in this era. The era ends when the four members arrive. Humankind must transcend this human existence, evolve, prepare, because those that fail to do so will not make the transcendence. We will be separated by effect by those who make the needed change and those who do not. The urgency is now. We must evolve, or we will fail to transcend. They stressed the interconnectedness and oneness of all living things; they expressed a oneness of consciousness. They told me I -- we, humans -- could reach out to them through a conscious connection, demonstrating how to do so in the very act of telling me.
 
One of the final moments I remember, after our 'talk', I was back in the first area outside of Wayne's tunnel, with the extraterrestrials, and Wayne was stepping into their space for the first time. In the very next moment, Wayne and I were standing beneath the archway separating two areas of his home. In a split second, we were just there. Trisha and their friends said they realized we were there when I exclaimed, "What the fuck just happened?" Wayne's friend answered, "Oh, you're back now."
 
Wayne immediately began asking me numerous questions, "What did they say to you? Where did they take you? What did they tell you?" He was eager to know because they hadn't allowed him to enter their space, and hadn't expressed interest in conversing in-depth with him. He was eager to know everything I had experienced.
 
I cannot possibly tell you everything here. I wish I could. What I've told you here is the very serious highlight and concentrated message. I've given you the bottomline up front -- remember who you are, remember why you are here, transcend the human experience, remember the oneness of our existence, they are coming and we must prepare.
 
We cannot escape this inevitability. We must learn to communicate as the being has communicated with me, as all of the beings have communicated with me and others like me, wherever they are stretched across the world. Our communication will lead to our recognition of our singular consciousness, which is essential for our transcendence and evolution. I have no idea how much time we have [left], how many human lifetimes, but it sounded as if [it wasn’t long and the change would be soon] existence as we know it change soon. [sic] Soon in terms of human years, or soon in terms of higher beings of an extraterrestrial origin "years", I honestly don't know. If I had to bet on it, I'd bet on it being in my lifetime. Transcendence is an individual act, not a group act as a species or race, so some of us simply will not make it. However, the more of us who individually seek transcendence, the more likely others will, too.
 
Before you ask me to prove I am telling the truth by revealing my identity and the location of these events, recognize the monstrosity in your ask -- Wayne and Trisha have lives and families and careers; the beings have a timely mission; I have children and a supportive partner I would like to protect; and, damn it, the message is the important point. The message is both a plea and a warning. We must listen, friends. Destroying the lives of several families in your search for proof won't help you. At this point, I am unwilling to divulge the location of the base. I am hoping to retain my anonymity for now.
 
I expect there to be many comments, criticisms, questions, and accusations. I want to be very clear that I am not here to try to convince anyone that the beings' message is true. I know it is true. What I will do is be honest with you and do my best to answer your questions.
 
My name is Añjali, and I am here to deliver this message. We are not alone, my friends; they are here; we are [all] connected through a shared consciousness, and we must begin transcendence.🌱
 
________________________________
 
Caveat: Please be respectful and patient. I will answer questions below in comments, and also will add as edits here when there are several asking the same question. I ask again that you please be respectful. I just want to help.
 
EDIT: There have been numerous comments regarding my credibility being ruined by explaining a portion of my career in the way that I did. Some have even likened me to Trump, which is sad and off base. However, I understand where you are all coming from, to a degree. There is a joke in intel that if you tell people what you do for a living, you're bragging; if you don't tell people what you do for a living, you're bragging. I can't give my credentials without revealing my identity. I knew this would be an issue, and I haven't been able to figure out how to reconcile it. What I can say is I'm a Gulf War Veteran, with multiple degrees and advanced certificates. Everything I told you took place in Southern California on the dates I provided. I tried to stress my credibility because I want and need to be taken seriously, so you can hear the message and appropriately respond to it. My professional reputation was all I had to offer you. Now that you've heard it, I won't need to discuss it again.
 
EDIT: There are a few errors above that folks seem to think means this is fiction and LARPing. Rather, it was written all in one sitting, no editing, sent button pushed before I could change my mind. Excuse the errors. They mean nothing.
 
EDIT: My expertise is IO/IW assigned to MENA/NESA/ONGA. I supported DRSO and DSCA during W.'s war on terror. I briefed STRATCOM, CENTCOM, the Joint Chiefs, several ASD/PDASD/DASD in ISA and across theater. I had an office at DIA, in Fairfax, and at the Pentagon. I couldn't take the metro to work most days because I arrived before the Red Line began running for the day, and it was the line that ran to my residence. My first division director crawled out of the Pentagon on his hands and knees on 9/11 after the attack hit the ring where our offices were located. There is a memorial at DIA for those from the agency who died.

Mar 10, 2021 Extraterrestrial Evidence: Retired Defense Intelligence Officer with a CE5 Experience To Share - Anjali (Part 1) - with Roderick Martin

Roderick: [intro]

Everyone had such wonderful things to say about what they do. These days I paint, I read, I spend time with my kitties, I meditate. I get to spend a lot of time with my spouse being in lockdown together. That’s pretty much my day on a day in, day out. But that’s not what you’re here to hear about. Right, Roderick? This will be the first time I have ever told this story to anyone that I didn’t know, orally, telling you about my experience so please be patient with me as I look for the right words to express one of the most conceptually complex experiences that I think I’ve ever had. To just quickly go over my background that brought Nick [Larkin] and I together. My expertise is in information operations, information warfare, for Middle East, North Africa, Near East, South Asia, and the Office of Northern Gulf Affairs. I supported the Defense Reconstruction Support Office and the Defense Security Cooperation Agreement for both Iraq and Afghanistan during George W Bush’s war on terror. I have some experience with the combative command, with central command, strategic command, paycom. I’ve had the pleasure of being summoned by combative commanders to their command so I could brief them on the intel needs they felt they had at the time. Just really entrenched pretty deep, pretty deeply. The only reason that any of that matters is because I think it speaks to the idea that I am not someone who is easily moved, easily stirred, quick to fantasy. I do have a background in writing and I have written books, but I typically, my professional life I’ve had to deal with some hard cold reality so that’s just some of my background, my professional background.

Moving forward – I moved to California to do some intelligence work for the US Marine Corps. So I found myself in southern California. I’d been there for a few years. I had begun having difficulties with my body, this body of mine just was not cooperating. I had a plan, and I was really pushing hard for it, and my body put me down pretty hard and I found myself in the hospital, in ICU. And that’s really where I feel like the biggest transformation in my life began. I had been in the ICU for several days, I had been diagnosed with an autoimmune disease that attacks your spinal cord. I was essentially lingering on the brink of dying. I was getting to this place within myself personally, like emotionally, as I’m looking up at my two adult children who are standing at my bedside, and I’m thinking to myself, Oh, so this is what this feels like, this isn’t so bad, this is what slipping away is like, it’s just being calm and being kind of tired and still and at peace. Which – ​peace was not something I was used to ever feeling, and here I was on literally my death bed experiencing peace, like real peace for perhaps the first time in my life.

Somewhere in that ordeal I was lying in my bed and an elderly woman walked into the room and she stood at the window, against the wall by the window, and she just stood there and stared at me. I asked my nurse, “Who is this woman?” She said, “What woman are you talking about?”
"The woman who’s standing there at the window.”
She looked and said, “There’s no one there.”
My two kids are looking, and nobody’s seeing anything. 
She’s like, “Oh honey, there’s no one there.”
And I said, “No, there is.” I realized, wow this woman has died. I said, “She’s dead, she’s died.”
She said, “Oh honey, nobody has died.”
All of a sudden y’know lights and bells and whistles are going off in ICU and there’s just this massive convergence outside my room because it turned out the woman who was standing in my room was busy dying in the room next to mine. She did not make it. She did indeed pass, and with all the commotion that had gone on I looked off to the door, my eyes were just following the nurse, I looked off to the door and when I looked back at the wall where she’d been standing, the woman was gone. It was pretty profound, but I have to tell you that in the moment, when it was happening, I didn’t feel anything profound. I’ve had to really process this. In the moment when it was happening, I just felt very at peace, even with what had just happened. I had a young son who was not able to be there with me, he was in elementary school, and he and I would FaceTime with each other even while I was in ICU. But that day, I didn’t feel like FaceTiming, I was just really being - preparing myself, I think, to just go. I can’t explain why but that woman began like a parade of people who came into my room, who had passed on in the ICU while I was there.

I did recover, obviously - I lived - I spent a couple of months in a rehabilitation hospital before I was released and when I returned home I was surprised to see that I was still seeing people who had passed. There was a young boy who was in my house, there was a woman who I thought was a Black woman because her voice was so rich and beautiful, and there was a man like a really tall thin man who would come and walk through the house. We had the sounds of objects moving. Sometimes it sounded like - it was the most bizarre thing - like somebody had chains and they were like dragging it along the inside of the wall, and if you can imagine like just a really think chain and - I don’t know if you’ve ever seen the space that’s in between, like two walls, like a walk space, usually it’s not very thick, but if you can just imagine a really heavy chain just clunking through there and just hitting against two walls and making all kinds of racket. That’s what we were experiencing. At the time there were other contractors who were living in this house that I was in, because we had all been on a lease together, and they did eventually leave and it was just my daughter and I, but at this time we had other people who were there and they’re saying, “What the heck is going on, we’re hearing women talking, we’re hearing sounds all the time, day and night.” So it was quite a change for everyone. At that time I still spent a lot of time in bed, unfortunately. I had a hospital bed in my room and spent the majority of my time there and there was the woman, Gwen, who would come in and talk to me, like she would say things to me in my ear. Sometimes I could understand exactly what she was saying, and other times it was as if she was talking through - as if I was listening through a cup against a wall, very [muffled talking] if that makes sense, that was the sort of sound that it had. So this carries on for a bit of time in 2017. Nearing the end of the year - all the other contractors have moved, they’ve actually deployed, they’re in Afghanistan and I’m holding down the fort with my daughter now. We’re in my room - I think, Roderick, did I send you a sketch of the layout of the room? My bedroom when I first had contact?

Roderick: Yes you did [he might upload it]

Okay, okay. I wanna say to everyone first of all, please forgive this sketch, I did it in about 2 minutes and sent it to Roderick today just so he could have something for reference tonight while we spoke. [laughs] I never intended it to be for public consumption but hey, it is what it is.

Roderick: You were an artist, don’t worry about it.

I’m honestly a terrible sketcher. Okay, so my daughter and I were sitting in the bed watching Netflix. We’re facing the TV, it was across the room at the end of the bed but against the other wall, so I’m facing the television and there’s a corner to the right. While we’re watching TV I suddenly start getting this sensation that somebody is talking to me. I looked over at my daughter, I just - I said, “What?” And she said “What?” And I said “Were you talking to me?” And she said “No, no I was just watching” whatever it was we were watching. And I said, “Oh, I thought you said something.” And so we go back again, it just keeps becoming abundantly clearer that something is happening in my head and it’s making me feel a little off. And then it all came, like it just came in, like a rush. There was suddenly, in that corner, the right corner of the room next to where the TV is, it was as if you took that corner and just replaced it with a being that was showing me them standing somewhere else that I have no way of understanding where that could possibly be.

When it first appeared, they were sort of lavender-skinned, standing perfectly still, a thin waify body, shoulders that were a little wider than what you typically hear about a Grey, you know, they’re very tiny tiny framed. But these had shoulders that were just a little more substantial than that. The arms and the legs were very thin, and the torso was thin. Everything I saw was this lavender color. The head itself was baldness and elongated from side to side, okay, so I can’t tell you what this being looks like from the side, I can only tell you that it appears that its head is longer than it is wider, front to back. Almost at the same time mushroom-esque. And definitely had facial features - larger eyes that were set back a little. It’s so hard to explain. It’s like the face was out a little bit from the bulbousness but not protruding like our faces are, you know what I’m saying? Where we have this amazing profile, and we can almost identify ourselves from a profile. The features here weren’t so prominent that it was like looking at a human, okay, but there were definitely humanoid aspects, you know, there was a mouth, there’s a nose area that’s closer to the face, and like thin nostrils. The eyes were larger than any eyes that a human would ever have. There weren’t whites, there weren’t irises and pupils, it was dark and shiny, and a little - the eyes protruded from the face enough that it was just a little bit of - Oh, I wish you could see my hands, I keep doing these things and I’m gesticulating, and none of you can see it and it’s so frustrating. The eyes were - all of the eye stood out from the face a little bit, like maybe a millimeter or two, and that’s different because our eyes are inset, okay. These aren’t inset and I guess that’s what I’m trying to say and I’ve never tried to explain this to anyone before so thank you for your patience while I try to do this. So, um. [big sigh]

So this - I don’t really know how to go from here. Basically this being was - first started off by sending me feelings of calmness, maybe? Not necessarily peace but just being calm and being still and even like emotions of - love isn’t right, love isn’t right only because I think it’s different than our human understanding of love, and so I don’t really know how to explain to you the feeling that I felt. But I felt that it was, that they meant well, and simultaneously I wondered, “Am I losing my mind?” I would vacillate between this is happening, and I’m having this conversation and I’m saying things aloud as I’m getting these images, and all of this metadata from them that I’ll get to in a minute, but as all this is happening I’m relaying, I’m saying out loud to my daughter what is happening, and explaining to her, “This is what they’re saying, this is what I’m being shown now, and this is what’s happening, and oh my gosh, you can’t see? They’re right over there in the corner.” So I had moments of that, that filled in the space between the being sending me information and essentially me receiving waves of, “Be calm, this is okay, there’s nothing wrong here.” [laughs] I have to laugh because that’s insane. Oh my god.

Okay, so, after the introductions and showing me where he’s standing - which, for everyone who would like some of those details, there was a - the being was standing in front of a window that was like an arch. Behind it I could see some kind of astronomical body, I don’t know if it’s a planet or a moon. I can’t tell you what it is but I can tell you that it’s the color of orange cream soda popsicles, you know how they have that color orange and that color of the cream that’s all swirled together, yeah that’s what the color of this planet is that’s in the background that they’re showing me, it’s literally like a swirl of cream and orange. It’s amazing. The being is standing in front of that window and then to - when I’m looking at him, to the left of him is an elongated window that gave the sensation of a corridor or a hall or something that he was standing near. D’you know what I’m saying? It gave that feeling of an elongated space like a corridor or a hallway. And so that was where this being chose to be standing, or at least to show me while we continued to have this first contact. He showed me - or they, we’re gonna get to that - they showed me like this, like a network of other people that they were contacting. And I don’t know, when I say they, this time I don’t know if it’s just that being was contacting, in communication with those people, or if they were showing me that other beings like them were also in communication, I kinda got the feeling this was their network, that these are the people I’m talking to. This is the doozy, this is a real doozy and I really - maybe someone out there somewhere will know what this means. They showed me different people that I was connected to, and then they started appearing in the room. So one was a young boy - remember I told you about the young boy that was in the house? - he came in and stood near the area that leads to the bathroom, Roderick? That’s where he was standing. He showed me the Black woman that I had heard and she was indeed Black, her name was Gwen, and she was standing where they showed me, when she was in the room she was like to the left of the television over near where the child was. And she - this is what I can’t make sense of - she was standing in a different time, and what I mean by that is that she was dressed and standing in what I’m guessing was late 1950s, early 1960s, at the latest, and she was standing under a tree on a patch of grass near a sidewalk by a car, there were other cars in the street behind her, I could see them. That’s where she was standing. And in - at that time she appeared to be about maybe 30 years old. They showed me Fred. Fred looked like he’d been - just had a really tough life outside, okay. It’s very difficult for me to tell how old Fred is, he appears to me to be a farmer, and I would say if I had to guess his age, he’s probably in his 60s or 70s, okay. He’s standing on the front porch of a very simple farmhouse. He’s just standing in the door, and he’s standing there looking at me. And so I got the feeling from what he was showing me and sending me that these people were part of that network. And I’ve been trying to understand that for three years. 

So he got to a point where he really started making it clear why he was there, and that was that he wanted to give me a message. I probably need to go back and talk a little bit about how they communicated because I think that that’s really important, that’s really what all of this is gonna be about.
Listen, Roderick, I’ve never told this story like this so feel free at any time, if I’m getting off course or I’m just not hitting the points you’d want me to hit on, cuz you’ve heard a lot of this, please feel free to chime in and get me back on track cuz I’m okay with that, I have no problem.

[Roderick can’t upload the sketch of the bedroom]

You know what, I will think about trying to put together a little bit of a better sketch than what I gave you Roderick, and see if I can’t throw it up on my Twitter tomorrow or something. I’ll figure it out.

Alan: People from different time periods sounds like double-exposed films.

Oh, okay, interesting.

Nick: To those of you rolling your eyes because it sounds outlandish I’d ask you, do you believe in superposition or quantum entanglement? These things that sound absurd but hey there is truth there. I don’t think that this sounds necessarily untrue at all, I’d ask you to have an open mind as we proceed.

Thank you, Nick. 

Marie: I know what you’re speaking on can sound outlandish or unrealistic, but I’d love to share with you, Anjali, my experiences that are so connected to what you’re saying. You are definitely not alone, I can feel the emotional tug of war that you have in coming out… You’re doing a wonderful job, just keep going.

Oh, thank you, thank you so much, okay.

Alan: Yeah we are with you, you’re doing great.

Thank you, Alan, okay. Okay so let’s talk about real quick about how this communication came along. Each time that I received what I’m gonna call a set of information, it came to me - like I would suddenly receive a picture in my head, it was literally, it was a full thing, I mean full immersion into something else and in that picture was all of this data, like metadata, and as soon as I received the picture, I received all the information. Now the problem with that is that - and this is, you’re gonna probably hear me say this a lot, is that that message they they were communicating with me had to come through a very imperfect brain to be interpreted and put into words to speak out back to you. I feel like the message itself is so very perfect but the messenger is so very broken that I’m doing the best that I can. And so, I’m saying, I’m getting this image in my head, it’s got all this information, and it downloads into my head and then I’m trying to put that into words so I can speak them back to someone, and that first person that ever heard any of it, in all of my - the mania that I thought I was caught up in the moment, was my daughter. 

Nick: Can I just encourage the audience to hold with us, we get to something much more tangible here shortly, beyond her living room.

Absolutely. So essentially that first message that he gave to me was that we’re not - that humans need to evolve, that we’re not evolving quickly enough, and what is holding us back is our use of language. That the way in which we communicate with each other is so incredibly limited and beyond limited, corrupted by our own perceptions and just by stimuli around us. There’s so much impurity in the way that we communicate that it lends itself towards division and anger and misunderstanding and a sense of isolation and being alone and disconnected and without a source of really -

[Max whispers “humanity”]

Yeah, thank you, my spouse just said, of humanity. And yeah, you know, that we lack a lot of humanity in our human speech. And that it is something that is dividing us and keeping us from reaching this next stage of evolution, okay. And so he said to stop using human language and to stop worrying about human affairs. To stop - almost like stop meddling in human affairs, stop focusing on human things. And I thought, “What the heck am I supposed to - what? [laughs] I am human! How do I do this?”

So as quickly as the first contact began, or he suddenly was just there irritating me and then left, and then made himself known, just as quickly as all that happened, it was over. It was just like that, it was: connection severed! I have to tell you that I panicked. Guys, I panicked when the connection severed because it felt so good. And all of a sudden, I was filled with this sense of loneliness that I had never felt. It was something - I didn’t even know how good it felt to be with this being and be communicating until it ended. And so that was the first contact. I had two more.

Roderick: You talked about the encounter here but the coffee shop, the mountain, how do we get there to get here?

Yes, okay. So we’re gonna get there now - I’m sorry, guys, it was super important.

Roderick: Maybe I got ahead of you.

Yeah, you did, you got a little ahead of me but that’s okay, Roderick. So this happened to me three times that I was contacted by this same being, and to the point where I started calling the being “the being” and I began having conversations y’know, with people that were very close to me about this contact that I was having with this being. Incidentally - not incidentally I have a feeling - I also at the same time I began having dreams of - like recurring dreams of a place that I would go when I would dream at night. I started having this recurring dream where I was going there, so I was talking about that all the time, like why am I having this recurring dream, why am I always going to the same place at night? What am I trying to work out? I was trying to figure out my own psychology at that point. Each time that I had contact with the being, the message expanded. A lot of it was repeated from the first time, with the second contact and we’ll get more into the message later. He did expand more on the second, and then on the third visit took place in my backyard at night. I was sitting at the firepit with my daughter having dinner and that particular night she was actually contacted as well, it was her first contact. It was pretty remarkable. 

So all three of these contacts happened in December 2017 and January 2018. So in February of 2018 [later changed to January], it was a Sunday, I went to a coffee shop to meet a friend of mine there. We had coffee and we were just catching up for a little while. It’s a coffee shop that I frequented often, so it was a place I was familiar with and it’s a locals place, so you see a lot of familiar faces and the staff gets to know you. We went in and my friend Nick and I - sorry Nick, his name is Nick as well - my friend Nick and I went into the coffee shop. We were having coffee, we’d been there for a couple of hours just talking and a couple incidentally came in and I didn’t really notice them much coming in, I just saw them come in, but I noticed them more because they were walking towards the area that we were sitting and we weren’t really having a private conversation, we were kind of finishing up but we weren’t quite ready to call it quits and they came and they sat down near us. It was a husband and wife, their name was Wayne and Trisha is how they introduced themselves to us. They said they lived in the area. It’s not unusual in southern California at all in coffee shops for people to strike up conversations. And it’s not unusual to walk into coffee shops and hear any manner of conversations between complete strangers in southern California, it’s really quite a place. So it’s not unusual that I would be having a conversation with complete strangers and end up talking very in depth about my health. And this came up because this gentleman had cancer, and I don’t wanna say what kind of cancer he had. He had a terrible cancer that has a low survival rate - and he has survived so, just so everyone knows, to this date to my knowledge he’s still with us. So he wanted to know more about my health and so I told him just a little bit real quick about my professional history, as we’d been talking about that, and I told him the first time I got sick I was at the Pentagon and blah blah blah. He was listening and after some time he’s like, “You know, I really think that you’re just holding all of this inside of you and have you ever tried meditation?” And I said, “Oh yeah, y’know, I certainly have.” About this time, my friend Nick says he’s gotta get back to the coast, that’s where he lived, so he said goodbye, left the three of us sitting there.

And Wayne says, “What do you think of aliens?” And I said, “I fuckin’ love ’em! I think about them all the time!" [laughs] Cuz I was just y’know, several weeks after this contact. So he says, “Well, y’know, I have - I could take you to meet some aliens here in the desert.” And I didn’t believe him at first, but I asked a lot of questions like, oh yeah, well, where would you be taking me to meet these? He said well, and then he told me his story, he said, “I own all this land over here and it includes this mountain, essentially, and I had been seeing some UFOs over my property.” He said he went up one night somewhere on the mountain, I can’t tell you when this was, where this was, I can just tell you this is what he told me, that he went up on top of the mountain and he made first contact with a couple of beings that had been standing there, and that they told him that they had a place inside the mountain, like a base inside the mountain and that they didn’t mean him any harm and that everything was going to be okay. And then they sent him on his way. I don’t have all the details of that story, unfortunately. But this is the reason why I believed Wayne, was because of the second part of what he said. Cuz I said, “Well what did you do when you went home?” He said, “I was obsessed.” He said, “I couldn’t stop thinking about it.” He said he barely slept for days, all he could think about was getting inside of that mountain. I don’t know the technical ways in which he did that. I can tell you that Wayne owns a construction company and in southern California if you’re going to be in the desert and you do construction, you absolutely do know how to clear rock and you absolutely do know how to blast into mountains. People out here, it’s not unusual for folks to have partially recessed homes even into the sides of mountains, it’s actually quite a big trend out here. He told me that he got some explosives and I don’t know what else he did, I don’t know what he did, but he said that he excavated that tunnel and that he had military camouflage netting and - you know, the story that he told me in the coffee house made it really sound like I was going to walk up to this amaz-- this structure that was outside of this tunnel opening and it was all going to be like military grade camo and all of this. And really what it ended up being when I walked up to it was a - it was like he had a shed and there were some beams that he had taken from - that he had somehow attached to the shed and was going into the - towards the side of the mountain and all of that was camouflage so you couldn’t see the opening at all, okay. But anyway so long story short, he tells me this and he asks me if I wanna go see them. He tells me he made his way to their base inside the mountain. I immediately called my daughter and dropped her a pin of where I was going and a couple of other friends, just dropped a pin, said, “This is where I’m at, I’m at this address. If you don’t hear from me by tomorrow, you better come and get what’s left of me.” [laughing] Crazy right?

So here I am thinking yes, I absolutely do want to see them in the mountain. And so I go with them. They have another couple, friends that have come to the coffee house, I think it was incidental, and they just saw us over there and came over and started chatting, it seemed very incidental, and he just started talking to them and he was like, “Yeah, we’re going back over to my place, you guys wanna come along?” He’s like, “Yeah, I’m gonna take her into the tunnel,” and he’s like, “Oh you’re gonna take her into the tunnel?” So these people knew about it! And there are four of them just standing in this coffee house talking about it like, “Oh yeah you’re going to take her into the tunnel? Yeah, let’s go do that.” We get to his property, we go into the house and he shows me around a little bit, and he tells me while we’re in there that this is - There’s this separation in his house from one section to another and it’s separated by a wooden beam that goes across the top and there’s like wooden beams that come down the sides so it’s like really an elaborate kind of frame for an entryway. He said to me, “This is where they put me when they’re done with me.” I was like, I said, “Who put you where?” He said, “No, after I go see the aliens, when they’re done talking to me they just put me right back here.” I have to tell you I did not believe him, okay, obviously, who would? I did not believe the man. So I’m a little hesitant to walk down there. But, y’know, people know where I’m at so I feel pretty confident. And they’re regulars in this coffee house and they weren’t trying to sneak out with me, you know what I’m saying? Anybody, God and everybody saw us together in there. So I didn’t feel like there was any kind of nefariousness that I was going to be walking into. But who knows.

So we get finally - we walk down from his house and we get to the mountain, to the shed area, and he lifts up the first part of it and we go inside and that’s when I see the wood that’s going across from the shed that everything is draped over. And then there’s more netting that’s covering up, or that’s just like hanging on the side of the mountain, okay. He grabs it and lifts it up and a gust of air comes - whoosh - comes out. It’s dark as dark is in there. While we were up at the house he and his friend, I’m so sorry I don’t remember the other couple’s name, they were so incidental, I had a difficult time even having a conversation with them because of all of this stuff that was happening. So I had no idea what their names were. But Wayne and his friend, they both put on the headlamps and we entered the tunnel. The tunnel that he had dug, it was pretty rustic, if I stretched out my arms on each side of me I would probably touch the wall, you know? It wasn’t like there was a lot of room. I could stand all the way. The guys could as well, neither one of them were really tall but Wayne’s friend was a little taller and he was hunching more probably than he needed to but he did feel a little uncomfortable so maybe it was around just over 6 foot high maybe, maybe a little higher. And it was indeed dark. So we’re walking - I don’t know for how long, maybe five, ten minutes. It’s a little dangerous sometimes, there were a few times that I stumbled. I stuck pretty much right between Wayne and his friend, just very eager to be at the back. I’m not having a conversation with the ladies, the ladies are in the rear and they’re just chatting, I mean they’re like - they’re having a conversation about something, and I’m thinking to myself, How are you people having a conversation right now? We are about to - what’s happening, y’know? [laughs] So I would say periodically, “What’s happening here?” Out loud. Because I was having this cognitive dissonance effect. Because here I am, I’m having a very intense moment, and they’re in the back just chatting it up. It’s like, “Hey you wanna go see some aliens in the mountain?” and his friends are like “Sure,” and so nothing is making sense to me, and I keep saying, “What’s going on? What’s happening?” And Wayne would say, “It’s okay, we’re gonna be there soon, it’s fine.” And so we keep walking and after a few minutes I can see light coming from ahead and it turns out that it’s coming from a curvature that heads over towards the right of where the tunnel is. Cuz the tunnel it’s not, we’re not zig-zagging all over the place, and that’s one of the most confusing parts of this. I mean when we first go into the tunnel, and I’m sorry, I skipped this, when you first go in, you’re immediately just looking at wall to your right, or rock to your right, rock right in front of you, and the tunnel is to your left, so you have to make an immediate turn left into this tunnel and then it starts meandering in, okay.

So now we’re getting - I’m seeing light and I’m just really anxious at this point to know what’s gonna be at the end of this tunnel cuz I’m not sure what’s happening. As we round the corner, we take a few steps - Wayne and I came to a complete stop and about 20 feet in front of me was an opening to what looked like a base hidden inside this mountain. And standing there were four beings. There were two beings that I can only describe to you as what we now know, what we in the community call Tall Whites - I didn’t have a word for them at the time. They were maybe near six feet tall, slender, humanoid, very beautiful, male and female. They looked like my human understanding of a male and a female. There was a third Tall White that was standing sort of behind them, and Roderick I believe - I have some drawings.

Roderick: All right now!

I have several of them but I feel that for tonight that the one that would be the most interesting - Oh I don’t know, I have pictures of - I have drawings of the beings themselves, I have drawings of the tunnel, I have drawings of coming around that corner and where everyone was standing when we first saw each other. I have other pictures of other things that we haven’t talked about yet. I do have that if you would be interested in that.

[Roderick talks about what to do with the drawings, tells her to continue]

Okay. So, so, we come around the corner and Wayne and I both stop dead in our tracks and there in front of us we’ve got the three Tall Whites and there’s a small Grey, and he’s standing in front of the Two Whites and they’re all acting like they’re talking to each other or looking at each other, and they all turn their heads and look and then the little one he turns his body and kind of faces me, and then I get this image and it’s: “Oh,” [surprised] it’s like, “Oh, hi Anjali, we’ve been meaning to talk to you.” I mean it was almost that casual, and my spouse and I have been trying to figure this out, trying to understand this first interaction and that greeting. Up until just last week when I posted this on Reddit, I never thought about the fact that perhaps they were waiting there, like maybe all of this was just intentionally staged or set up so that I would be there. I can’t even begin to understand why but I’ve been trying to wrap my mind around how those four beings were standing right there when I came around that corner, and how they wouldn’t know that we were coming and they wouldn’t know that I was there. It just doesn’t make any sense to me. So after he said, “We’ve been meaning to talk to you, we’ve been meaning to see you,” gave me that kind of greeting - I, guys, I just walked right towards him without hesitation. It wasn’t like being compelled but there was just no other thing to do at that moment but to go up to them. 

So I walked up to them and they told me that they wanted to talk to me. And they told - it was the Grey, the Grey’s the one that’s talking to me, okay, and he’s telling me - I’m looking down at him, he’s probably about 4 foot tall, oversized head for his body, oversized eyes, not a lot of prominent features, very thin neck and waify body like it’s barely there. And he’s telling Wayne and Trisha and their friends that they have to leave and that I’m going to stay there. And Wayne gets visibly upset, he does not want to leave me there. He’s still standing inside the tunnel. I’m now standing in their space with them. Wayne says that he doesn’t wanna go. I’m kind of - at this moment I’m picking up everything, like I’m picking up what they’re saying to Wayne, and what Wayne’s, y’know, how Wayne’s communicating back - I’m picking up all of this information. So essentially Trisha and their friends leave, and Wayne stayed. So his wife and friends, they literally just left and went home like it was no big deal. I was led from that space down a small corridor, or excuse me, I was briefly led down a corridor, I have no idea how big the corridor - how long it is. I was only in that space for a very short period of time when a door opened and I went into another space. So before I go into that space, Roderick, is there anything that you want to ask or am I doing okay still?

Nick: [talks about Native Americans meeting Europeans for the first time and thinking they were gods, and Mohammed disappearing and reappearing and downloading information - the fundamental message of major religions is truth, peace, love, how to conduct yourself as a human, so that he can get along and progress as a single humanity.] This sounds - I’m not suggesting that Anjali is the next coming of Christ, but what I am suggesting is if you wanna look at this objectively, throughout history we’ve seen things like this and what makes today different from then is we are now sufficiently progressed technologically that we are perceiving things, these kinds of interactions with higher beings, so to speak, in a different way, from a technological perspective. So I just wanna put that out there because I know a lot of people are probably like, oh this sounds too crazy to be true. I think it lines up very well with a lot of what we already accept to be true.

Roderick: [Has questions]
Alan Steinfeld: Okay, but did she finish? I don’t think she finished the whole part of that little segment there Roderick.

Am I going too long, Roderick? Is that what’s happening?

Roderick: No, no… You can continue.

Oh no I was just wondering before I go into the room with him, I was just wondering if there was anything that I’d missed or that you wanted me to talk about from that first experience, just that first moment of seeing each other and being in contact, I just wasn’t sure, so.

Roderick: No, it’s your story, whenever you pause I didn't know if you were just trying to - Hey, we’re here for you, we’re listening. You continue and when you’re done I’m sure there’s people just wanting to ask a few things.

Okay. Okay.

Alan: I just want to know, were you picking up things telepathically when you were dialoguing with the Grey, and you were picking up the conversation with Wayne and everything?

Oh yeah that was all - none of that was spoken. I’m not even sure - and I’ve thought about this a lot - I don’t remember if Wayne - I don’t remember if anybody spoke out loud. I don’t remember that. I just remember understanding what was happening and just having that dialogue in my head. He may have and maybe I was busy with other dialogue, I don’t remember that so I want to be honest about that.

Alan: But you were in a super-aware state because somehow something got turned on, it sounded like.

Oh I was very turned - like bright light lit up, yeah. So okay, so I followed the Grey, and the Whites were with us, they were like almost gathered around me. We went down this corridor to like an arch, it was like a half circle. What I’m seeing now by the way, it’s metal, or something like that. I’m not in rock anymore. Everything is extremely smooth, extremely sterile and clean and minimalist, just like the most austere - Like think, probably nobody here has ever been awake in an operating room but it was even more austere than an operating room. There was just nothing there except the corridor and the doors. There weren’t things on the walls or anything like that. Everything was just very efficient. So we’re walking up to this half-circle and suddenly it’s like the door - that I didn’t realize it was a door - but it like slid into the wall like a pocket door, like a sliding pocket door? It was like that. So it just slid in smoothly and without any sound that I can think of that really stood out to me. 

And on the other side of that door was this being looking down at me with lavender skin. I’m sorry, I just got chills, like head to toe. This being was seven-and-a-half, eight foot tall, and it was my being. It was my little being that appeared to me in my room that I had been talking to all that time - except it wasn’t a little being, it was a seven-and-a-half, eight foot tall being. And I couldn’t say anything, I just remember looking up and its face and feeling such awe and wonder. And just feeling very at peace at where I am. I had zero fear, zero discomfort. They had me at one point in a supine position, okay, I was on my back. I don’t know if I was laying on something or if I was somehow floating, but I couldn’t feel anything beneath me. I didn’t feel anything! All I can see are their faces looking at me while they’re telling me their message and the reason that they have contacted me. Why I’m there. And they implore me to remember who I am. They started saying things like, “Remember who you are, remember why you’re here, remember what you’re doing,” they would say. And they told me that essentially that what I thought was going on here isn’t what’s really going on. That not only is - we have to stop communicating with our human language, we have to learn how to communicate with each other the way that they communicate with me. And the reason for that is so important, it’s because in that communication we realize our oneness. It’s like that that’s where the seed of our singular consciousness is. It’s like where we discover that is in our meditation, and that we can all have conscious contact. They said that we must evolve, that - and they start telling me the story that sounded so confusing for my little brain.

They said that there was some group or a council? I don’t know the word to use but there’s like this group of higher beings that have been overseeing humanity and that at some point in the past, and I don’t know if they mean like 1960 or if they mean like y’know thousands of years ago, I have no idea. But they said that in the past that there were seven of them on this council that oversee humanity and that two of them at some point had begun to tire of the human experience, the human experiment. They were disappointed in our behavior and our evolution and they didn’t want to have anything to do with us anymore, okay. Then there were the five of them that had been overseeing us but that because of the things that we have done here on Earth, that there are two others that are no longer in their group, in their council anymore, and those other two have somehow aligned themselves with the previous two that at some point had abandoned us. And that these four are coming here. It is of essentially the utmost urgency that humanity learn to raise its consciousness and begin [to] practice transcendence, is what they told me. That I have to prepare to transcend. They said that there were - that not everyone would go, but that there’s a change coming and that it’s going to be difficult for some. But that this transcendence is like, it’s like the end of an old way and the beginning of a new way. Like [stumbles, sighs] it’s so hard. It’s like they’re saying that when you transcend, that something very significant changes in your reality. And that we can reach that transcendence by practicing their communication techniques and recognizing the oneness in all of our life. That we are a single energy, we are one thing. It’s like we play tricks in our own heads about what we’re doing and who we are, and that we have forgotten that we are part of this one singular consciousness.

That’s the story. That’s the experience.

Guest: Thank you for sharing. Absolutely amazing.
Alan: Beautiful, thank you.

[Max whispers something]

Oh oh oh oh! I forgot, so, let me tell you real quick, so we come out of the room and we go back to the corridor, we go back to the little alcove, I’ll call it. And Wayne, god bless him - I’ll tell you what guys, if you ever have to be in a foxhole you want Wayne there because that man stood in that tunnel and I don’t know how long he was there, but he stood there and he waited for me to come out. And the last thing that I remember being with them is Wayne, for the first time, taking a step into the space where I was standing with them. And the very next moment, I was standing in Wayne's house beneath that arch.

[Max whispers: “with Wayne”]

With Wayne.

[Max whispers: “and his friends”]

And his friends were in the house and they were like, “Oh hey, you guys are back!”

Guest: We hear the hubby.
Roderick [embarrassed laugh] We hear the hubby in the background.

You hear him? He keeps me so honest, god bless him.

Roderick: [says I know this is stressful]

You know what, guys, listen, Roderick has been just such a blessing in the last week, I can’t tell you. I don’t know how to tell this story. Here I am, I haven’t released this yet but here I am, I am trying to write a book about a subject that requires y’know that we don’t use words. [laughs] So it’s hard for me to explain all of this and I appreciate the prompts. I talked to Roderick and Max has talked to Roderick quite a bit, and we just feel very grateful to have his guidance and his support at this time.

Roderick: Why throw away a potential career in telling this experience?

That’s a great question. First of all, we started this experience with me being in a hospital bed in the ICU. That in and of itself has taken me on a journey of healing and introspection and retrospection that you can probably imagine people go through. I put a lot of pride into the kind of work that I did - it was a point of pride for me. I had believed for several years that there was going to be some magic wand that some doctor was going to wave for me that was going to get me back into the physical shape that I had been in prior to 2017 when I went into the hospital. Just recently I saw a geneticist who informed me that, “No, darling, you’re probably not going to be feeling much better than you are, and in fact you may wanna hold on tight, this is gonna be rough.” And so that gave me some more freedom to explore whether or not I had the courage to come forth and tell this story. It allowed me the space to go to my children, my adult children and my teenage son, cuz he is a teenager now, and ask their thoughts and see how they felt about it. They were all very supportive and they said, “You’ve got to tell people this story, mom.” So I think that once I realized that I probably wasn’t going to have the energy to go back into full-time intel work, it gave me a little bit of room where I could relax and think about what else mattered. So then things that matter like my husband and my children - we want to protect the people that we love. Nick spoke a little bit about some of the harassment that I’ve had on Reddit and I gotta tell you, some of it’s been pretty nasty. I’m really super surprised at the incredibly deeply personal attacks that have been going on. I did expect a heck of a lot of pushback and luckily I can take it, but it’s been enough of a peek inside the minds of people when I give this message that it made me a little wary to come out more publicly and reveal who I am. I just saw yesterday a post that there’s a photo of Bigfoot that somebody has captured supposedly in Oklahoma - I don’t know if anyone is aware of this but this has been something that started circulating around this week -

Roderick: That big million dollar bounty, yeah.

Yeah! Like yesterday when I saw it they were offering a two million dollar bounty for this creature that’s been photographed, dead or alive. [laughs] And then people are saying, “Oh give us the coordinates, oh tell us who you are!” [laughing] You’ve gotta be kidding me. So I guess for me a lot of things had to happen and it took some time for them to fall into the right place in the right order for me to feel like I could be more comfortable. I knew that as soon as I told this story that it would be a career-ender and so I thought, well heck I don’t need to continue to do any of this work, I don’t need to spend any more of my life on this, and in fact it’s the exact opposite of what the beings have told me to do. They have been very very clear that I am not to be concerning myself with human affairs. Sometimes I have really not listened to that and have gotten extremely off track and tried to even go into a sense of denial, even? Here I - I couldn’t wait to share this experience with my best friend but then as soon as I did, I thought well that couldn’t be right, y’know, that just can’t be. But as time went on it became apparent to me that if nothing else there was consistency in what they were telling me and that all of the emotions and the feelings that I would receive from them while they were talking to me were so outstanding and so loving and accepting that I thought that there’s no way that this can be a bad thing, right? And so then it just became a matter of me just accepting and listening and I had conscious contact several times for a few days before I made the post. And the post was rushed, it was the first draft, the first time I’d ever put it in writing, and I just hit post before I changed my mind and I just walked away.

Roderick: Why you? Why tell a select few people if they want humanity to understand their message? 

That’s a great question and it’s one that I’ve been trying to figure out for a while. First of all, I do want to say first and foremost the most important part of this is that they aren’t just telling me or a select few. I am of the understanding that they attempt to contact us all and if we listen then we can have a conscious contact with them. So why me? Maybe that I’m hearing them. I don’t know why. Could it be because I’ve been so ill in my life? Could it be that I still am? Am I - do I have one foot on living and not living? I don’t know. I don’t know why me, I don’t feel special, I’m not a chosen anything, I'm just a person who has been told to tell this message and that’s it. I don’t have an answer, maybe they know. You should ask them, maybe they’ll tell us. [laughing] 

Woman: You guys can meditate, go ask.
Roderick: How to accomplish conscious contact? Can you learn the skill like playing guitar?

Okay. My understanding of this is that much like the skill of playing a guitar, that the more you practice the better you get at it. And if you want to play guitar really well then you practice a lot. So you know the old human adage that practice makes perfect, well you know maybe in this case we should listen to that. I think that one of the most profound things that we can do is to bring ourselves into our present moment. We spend so much time in our heads thinking about what happened yesterday, worrying about what’s going to happen tomorrow or what we’re going to do in five minutes or the thing that’s in front of us, the phone that’s ringing, the cat that’s meowing, I mean we’re always worrying and paying attention to everything that’s happening except like our present moment. It’s when we slow down all of the external stimuli and we bring our mind, like mindfully into a place where we are seeing through the eyes of the single consciousness that - I’m sorry, I have a cat that’s misbehaving, it distracted me, my apologies. If we can bring ourselves into the present moment and mediate at that spot, that is the place at which contact can be heard because contact happens quite often - it can be happening when you’re washing the dishes and you get this flash of something in your mind that you can’t pinpoint why it came into your mind. Maybe if you stop for a moment and you think upon that - what was that image, what did you see? Did you hear anything with it? Is there sound in your mind? Smells? Ideas that are new or different that you feel like almost intruded? You have to create a place where you can hear it because if your mind and your environment, everything around you, is so busy and noisy all the time, how can you hear something like a soft presence that is just gently trying to make its introduction to you.

Roderick: What can we do as individuals to transcend? Where to start?

Okay well, no, I think first of all one of the most important things for us to be able to recognize is that they’re telling us that we have a singular consciousness, okay, that we are all one energy, we are one thing, we are all connected through this conscious contact that we have okay, that we can have with each other and that we can have with the higher beings. I think it starts by number one, recognizing that this is something that mystics have been saying for thousands of years. They’ve been telling us for thousands of years that all of life is connected. But what are the mystics doing? Well the mystics are changing their worldview, they’re changing their dialogue, they’re changing the words that they use, they’re recognizing when they have a word that’s divisive or that is from a place that’s not the awareness of our spiritual connection but is of that place that we come from when we’re worried about what everybody’s thinking about us, y’know. If we live in our heads and in our ego essentially and we allow that to motivate us and for that to be our reactive place that we start from, when we do that then we are disconnecting ourselves from that conscious contact. So a very important part is to recognize our own behavior and our own thinking processes, our own word choices, and the things that we do in our daily lives that automatically create false divisions between us.

Roderick: Wow wow, that is powerful. … in history we have contactees saying things like they’re the chosen one, here to spread the word as a representative to save the world, ya know you hear all this -

Yeah, yeah. [witheringly]

Roderick: In all of those cases, the entities have held all the cards. Then the contact falls away. What assurances do you have that these entities are willing to put their cards on the table, or are they just utilizing you and this audience - why not have the other contactees spread the narrative? ​

Mar 10, 2021 Extraterrestrial Evidence: Anjali, Retired Defense Intelligence Officer goes deeper into CE5 experience (Part 2) - with Roderick Martin

What assurances do I have that they’re willing to put their cards on the table? That they’re not just messing around? Okay, well first I would have to say that the notion of harding cards is actually in complete juxtaposition to what they’re saying. They’re offering an olive branch, an opportunity for a deeper sense of connection and growth for humanity than any message I’ve heard in my life. They’re telling us, “Hey, we’re all the same and you can talk to us, we’re all connected, and these are the things that you have to do to bring your humanity up so that you can evolve into this next era that we’re supposed to go into,” y’know. [laugh] They’re not holding cards like playing a game with us. They’re offering us the keys to our own existence.

Roderick: What was a shocker to me: four races who are not friendly have already arrived.

Yeah, okay, so Nick will probably be able to relate to this. So after all of this contact that I had, for a period of time I went into a spiral afterwards where I was searching for anything that could possibly explain what was going on. You know what Roderick, I forgot your question, I am so sorry. It’s been a long day. Please repeat your question.

Roderick: Four races who are not friendly?

Yeah, okay, right! So I started scouring through videos on just about every platform you can imagine looking for patterns in sightings and things that were being captured, and I think first of all that there has been an uptick in the types of things that we are capturing on our devices these days. So it could be that we have just reached the technological level that allows us to see things that were never there or that we didn’t realize were there before, and now we can see them. And they’re turning up in people’s TikTok videos, they’re turning up in their Snapchats, they’re turning up in their - any videos that people are making. The patterns that I have seen, to me, feel like we have already moved into some um, some kind of sharing space [laugh], I guess that’s the best way I can put it. Some kind of sharing space because there are too many things happening simultaneously all over the world. There is some kind of synchronicity and as well as a technological ability to see things that we haven’t seen previously that lead me to feel like the four may already have arrived.

Roderick: Are they threatening to destroy people who haven’t transcended?

Right, right, um yeah, it has been stressed to me numerous times the dire importance of humanity’s focus on transcending. So that message has been clear and established. I have been feeling - I’ve been getting more of a sense of urgency with that which is another reason why I have felt like the other four may have arrived. I also have had contact from a different being than I have had contact with in the past. So it wasn’t my lavender being that I’ve had contact with recently, and that’s a very different thing for me. I have no idea what these other four are like. I have no idea if they’re different races than the ones that I have seen, or if they are the same. I have no idea. I just know that they were four and then - You know, I don’t know if these are four individuals [mumbles] - four members, I get this idea like it’s four members but I don’t know what those - what they are. I don’t know if they’re four people, or if they’re four groups, you know, I have no idea. 

It seems that when they come, that there will be that separation between the transcended and the non-transcended, but I don’t know what that looks like and I’m sorry. I’ve thought about this so much. Because listen, this is so important because I honestly - the contact that I’ve had with them it’s such a message of hope, it’s not a message of, Oh the four are coming! Y’know. It’s so funny, they’re telling us exactly how to have that not be an issue, y’know. And if we, if all we do is worry about the four coming and try to prepare to defend ourselves in some way, then we’re not gonna be transcending. That’s like, that’s not - that’s the opposite. One of the things that we absolutely have to do is put our fear of this aside. It has to - you just have to trust that you can put this fear aside and you can focus on developing this conscious contact with each other and with them. The four that are coming, they’re very upset because of the things that we have done, not just to Earth, but they showed me “here but not here”, like “everywhere”. Like when we do things here, like when we - Our rush for the nuclear bomb and all of our tests and all of the explosions that we have done, that we have done some irreparable damage like to somewhere else, you guys. I don’t know what that is but they told me it was like here, it’s like right here but it’s not here. And that the four that are coming, they’re just very upset at what we have been doing to this planet and that what we have been doing has been affecting other places here but not here.

Roderick: Wow, wow. Humans must evolve and we aren’t doing it quickly enough. Language is holding us back as a species. Unconfuse me a little bit. What were the thoughts in your head when you got this message?

Sure, sure. Well I would say that when I received the message, I didn’t know what I was going to do. I had spent my entire career writing. I have written so many government profiles and I’ve written curriculum, collegiate curriculum, grad school curriculum, I’ve written books, I’ve written for magazines, for newspapers. And this guy’s gonna show up and tell me to stop using words? Like I am sorry, does not compute. Like I had no idea how I was supposed to accomplish that when I first got that message the first time. I thought this has got to be some kind of gods-trolling-the-humans moment here because you’re coming to a writer and telling her, Oh, you have to stop using words. [laughs] I thought this just doesn’t make sense to me. That was my initial reaction, that was my very first thought was I don’t know what is going on here. This - why - what?

Roderick: Reminds me of Avatar, tree of life, do you ever get that kind of connection there?

Oh I absolutely get that connection, that’s one of - Not the connection to the movie, well I mean I guess kind of, I’ve never thought of it in that respect. But the word avatar, if you can move away from the movie, because I was thinking more about the word avatar. One of the profound changes that I experienced after this contact with them was an understanding that my consciousness is residing in an avatar. That this is not - that this is a temporary condition of a permanent consciousness. It has transformed my approach to my own body and to my own illness, and to everything, I mean, of course. Once you have that realization it really rocks you. I actually began referring to my body as an avatar.

Roderick: In the movie, tree of life, everybody’s connected, we are all one.

That’s right, it does appear that way.

Roderick: [says Anjali and Alan are “definitely on the same page”]
Marie: Getting acceptance of family.

Oh my gosh, I have to tell you, it’s been amazing. Max is such a supportive partner, I honestly - I couldn’t do this without him. He was encouraging and has been encouraging and supportive all along. It was more difficult thinking about my children. My two adult children are very much on the same page, they believe my experience, they believe their mother. My daughter has even had her own contact with the lavender being. I haven’t had to - I’ve been very fortunate, Marie, I really have. I can’t complain. My only concern is regarding - I have a young son and I have an ex and these are the kinds of ideas that can be very troublesome in society for people, and sometimes when you really hit a nerve then they recoil and they attack. I have seen a lot of that on Reddit and it’s been my concern that it could interfere with my relationship with my younger son. I just hope that’s not the case. Those have been my concerns regarding my family.

Tiffany: Similarities between the message that you received and the cognitions that you now have about reality, and the similarities with [Sanskrit word]. Reality is a construct, the maya in Hinduism. Have you found similarity or connection with faith areas?

That’s a great question. I was raised in a Christian home, went to church most of my life as a child. When I was raising my children we went to church. I’d say about 10 years ago I had a faith crisis in that I always had a very difficult time with the Abrahamic religions and the stories that were provided to us. In American Christianity there’s not a lot of room for questioning. I decided about 10 years ago that if there was a god, god was dead and that we were done, we were just alone. I became more of a humanist and began believing more in the ability of the human itself to overcome its obstacles rather than waiting for a divine entity to come down and just solve of the issues. So how this changed that is - I don’t have a lot of the vocabulary for the ideas that you were just talking about. I have a vague sense of understanding about Hinduism and Buddhism. I see some overlaps, some very serious overlaps in the message of the beings and some of the messages that I have found echoed in Hinduism and Buddhism. Whoo that’s really taken my mind for quite the ride. I don’t really know what to make of that. So I typically just don’t, because the idea of Hinduism and the idea of Buddhism and the idea of Abrahamic religions and all being so separate, these are such human ideas. They’ve challenged me, all of us, to overcome our human experience and our human way of thinking and to not be so caught up, so married to the things that we do as humans. I think that in taking that step back, and not looking at it from a perspective of Hinduism, Buddhism, Christianity, Judaism, Zoroastrism [sic], whatever. If we could try not to put those labels on things then perhaps the thread that is woven through all of them, the place that everything intersects and is interwoven, maybe we’ll be able to begin to uncover those things rather than to focus on the fact that we have differences, you understand? So I don’t think a lot about religion. I think a lot about conscious connection and the oneness of our existence and the fact that something, just by - if we listen to the message that we are all one, yet we are all in separate avatars, somehow we are fractured. We are many but we are one. And I spend a lot of time meditating on what that means.

Q: Have you heard of writer Marshall Summers? “Allies of Humanity” book, his experiences channeling, there’s multiple groups you probably know about that have had multiple channeling experiences like Ra (group of scientists).

I just heard about Ra for the first time last week.

Q: Allies of Humanity - a lot of parallels with what you’re saying. These four beings/horsemen are angry you said -

I don’t know if anger is quite the right word. They’re displeased with what we’ve been doing, with the destruction.

Chrissy: This book talks about a galactic federation, tons of people have said this, also embedded in pop culture thru Star Wars etc. Allies of Humanity book says these beings are coming. People think they should worship them but in fact they’re not good. Multiple groups are saying they’ve had contact and have been giving different stories, some saying good, some saying bad.

Regarding the four who are coming - the three who are warning of that, or telling us of that are incredibly loving beings. I felt such loneliness after I left them. It’s such a longing to be near them that I can’t imagine how that could be a negative thing. They are advocating how we are all of one spirit and how we have to honor life everywhere because of that. And I just can’t think of how that could ever be a negative thing. With regards to the four - uh - I can say that I don’t know. I don’t know Chrissy, and I can’t pretend to know.

Q: That’s okay. Do you believe these other stories from other contactees that might be the opposite of what you’re saying?

Well, what I would say is I haven’t read their stories, or heard them, so I’m sorry I can’t offer an opinion. I can only tell you my own experience right now.

Q: or any other contactee story that we’ve heard - from Travis Walton -

I believe Travis Walton. I believe Travis Walton. I mean there’s a lot of evidence there. I believe Travis Walton. I don’t know who those beings were that he was with, or what he experienced but I believe that he did experience something.

Q: Travis is a really compelling story. Re. Robert Bigelow, research into afterlife - how is this connected to you? You had a life after death experience and then an ET experience very close together - how are those connected?

I don’t know if they’re connected but I suspect that they’re connected because of the way that I received the image from the woman who came into my room. That was the first time I ever had contact, like the contact that I would later have with the being. And it was the same as I had described it, I received like an image came into my head and it said essentially that she was the woman who had just passed away next door. It came like a photograph into my mind even though I’m looking at her, I get a photograph and then all the information came with it and it was very limited, it was “She has passed and she was in the room next to you.” That was essentially all, that was it. But the reason I think they have to be interconnected in some way is because it was the same way that the beings have communicated with me. They send me the message, it’s got all the metadata, and then it downloads into my head, and then I’m thinking about it. And so that’s how it goes. There has to be an interconnection there, and perhaps something about the condition of my brain was why I heard, I don’t know.

Alan: Hi Anjali
Roderick: I gotcha Alan, hang on. I will be getting Anjali into some safe spaces to tell this story and set up a podcast with Chrissy. [She balks, has to talk to her team!] My friend Alan has been waiting, he’s a hero. [plays theme song] Alan Steinfeld, the author of Making Contact: Preparing for New Realities of ET Existence - and he’s my friend.
Alan: I’m not a hero, I’m very curious about everything. There’s nothing more fascinating about humanity about to transcend itself. Anjali you are a breath of fresh air, you are coming at it so innocently.

Oh my gosh thank you, that’s very sweet of you.

Alan: The way it’s all come together, feels like it’s speeding up.

I have to tell you Alan, I agree with you, it’s one of the reasons that I chose now - besides just the contact that I had had last week that led me to very rushedly writing out my first expression of the experience. Outside of that, Max and I have been having conversations for quite some time about how I felt like things have been speeding up, like the urgency is getting stronger.

Alan: Everything is conspiring towards this big push, just the fact we’re all on Clubhouse [Roderick’s podcast].

Like a convergence of things.

Alan: Exactly. Re. hospital when seriously ill - was that a near death experience? People come back from that more expanded. Did that happen to you?

Yes, I did not experience brain death. I would say that I just lingered on the edge for a very long time - well, 8 days I lingered before I decided if I was coming or going.

Alan: Seems a lot of people in that situation have a shift of consciousness. You opened. There is this border, the realm of the dead, and this other frequency of ETs or some ETs that seems like we have the facility to tap into. It seems like that happened to you.

Right! And what was interesting is that the frequency - that I received both of the messages in the same way from the dead and from the beings. I haven’t really gotten into this very much but somebody did ask me online somewhere if I had continued to have interactions with the dead, or if they ever asked me to do things. I have to say I have continued - it’s not the parade I had in ICU, but I have had I believe 4, perhaps 5 people who came to me essentially wanting me to reach out to people that they knew when they were alive and they wanted me to tell them things. That has been a huge shift in my consciousness, it’s something that’s changed in my life since I was in ICU. All of this is very new, very strange, very intense. Very odd. I don’t understand it but it all happens in the same way. Any time that I have seen the spirit of someone who’s passed and they’ve wanted me to do something, it’s the same thing, I get an image and it has everything in it and I have to just figure out how to get to it. How do I unlayer my own mind away from the message, essentially.

Alan: The ETs are probably in communication all the time if you turn that on right? Because you’re like a conduit it seems like.

I get things all the time, Alan. Sometimes it’s silly things. Somebody will say what time is it? And I’ll say 12:34, and it’ll be 12:34. It’ll just come to me and I’ll just say 12:34 - it’s just going to that first thing, y’know. What’s the temperature out? Oh, 63. And it’s 63. Very weird little things that they don’t mean anything and they don’t matter but it is, it’s like a live ongoing connection. And it comes out in different ways. It’s been really interesting.

Alan: Will these beings speak through you (channeling) or merge with your consciousness to speak?

That’s funny you ask because Max and I have talked about that a few times. First of all, it feels very close to channeling when they connect - contact me, and I talk to anyone who is with me about what’s happening. It feels very much like channeling. There are times where I feel like there’s this little itch that if I just scratch it that something is going to blossom. And sometimes I’m more afraid of the blossom than other times. I know that sounds strange, I don’t know how else to put it but there’s something there and if I explore it too long, look at it too long or think about it too long, it’s like it’s just going to blossom right in my brain. I’m just not sure if I’m ready for this blossom.

Alan: It’s like an identity shift. I’ve known great channels - it’s like the ego mind is surrendered and this other thing comes through. You let us know when you’re ready to blossom. [She laughs] Is transcendence the process you’re in? You are showing us - being a defense intel officer, then being this other whole thing, is that an example of transcendence? It seems very abstract what you’re saying about it.

I’ve never thought of it that way. I do see the transformation in my own life. I am very different than I used to be. My interests are different, how I spend my time. Earlier Roderick said something about being his currency online - social media currency - my energy is my currency and my time, so I’ve been very careful with how I spend that, very deliberate. That’s something that’s different. I was never a yes person. But I was always moving and always analyzing everything constantly. I didn’t know how to be present. I worried constantly about what I said yesterday or five minutes ago, or what I did 10 years ago for the love of pete. And then I’d worry about what’s going to happen if - what if the geneticist tells me this, how am I going to deal with that? What if I don’t - whatever, what if I don’t remember the experience right, what if I don’t have the right words tomorrow or tonight. I lived in this space, this head space, this mental brain space that was never right now, it was always later, or yesterday. So a huge transformation that has taken place for me has been my ability to not always be present, but to realize when my thinking and my behavior is being based off of something that isn’t the present moment. When I’m listening to that monkey chatter in my mind of all the things that aren’t going to work and all the things that people are saying or thinking - and none of it’s real! It’s all made up, it’s all complete illusion and I’m just like trapped in my own head.

Alan: What is transcendence? How does each of us go about that?

You know, that’s something that I explore every day. I think that I can just tell you what I’ve done. Some of it has been intuitive, and then some of it I’ve had to seek extra help. I have sought help in meditation and in forming mantras that can bring me into a deeper meditative state. For those of you who are curious about my favorite mantra, this is it. It is: “I am pure awareness. Pure awareness am I. I am pure awareness. Pure awareness am I. Heal this body. This body is healed. I am pure awareness. Pure awareness am I.” And that’s the mantra that I turn to, to heal my body, my mind, my spirit, when I meditate. So I think there are probably a thousand roads that lead us to our destiny. I can’t be the one to tell you how to take yours. I can just tell you what road I’m on and what it looks like from where I’m standing.

Alan: We all have to drop into ourselves. It’s not just what you’re saying, it’s the aliveness that you’re saying it and the honesty that you’re revealing. Communication beyond language: is this abstraction? Others talk about less words, more abstract, more like quantum physics where we don’t collapse the wave function but there’s more of a superposition of possibilities where we’re not so linear.

You lost me, you said a lot of things in there.

Alan: Language is linear. Abstract art, quantum physics are not linear and not language. Is that what they’re talking about?

There definitely isn’t - I don’t think that - I don’t think in terms of linear. Linear isn’t, it’s A to B, it seems? In all of those linear ideas and thoughts that we have, that’s where a lot of our humanness lies because the transfer of information that they’re giving is so complete. I don’t even think the abstraction is quite the right word, maybe because as I understand abstraction I have a hard time wrapping my head around that word being what I’m experiencing, some kind of abstract awareness. Because what it feels like is complete awareness, it feels like a complete understanding which may sound silly when I say, “Well, I’m having trouble explaining this to you.” But you know why, Alan, it’s because I’m not sending it to you like they sent it to me. I’m filtering it through this very broken brain of mine and trying to give it words in English out of this mouth, and that is not how I received any of it. It was so complete and perfect, it was a perfect message and an imperfect messenger.

Alan: Maybe it’s perfect that you’re the messenger you’re supposed to be. I think somehow it’s all perfect cuz here you are enlightening lots of people to new possibilities. These 4 races that are coming or have come or are on their way, could it be that the government is aware of this, and this is why this disclosure process is speeding up because they know there’s a deadline?

Y’know, I don’t know. We could say from a logical standpoint that that makes sense. Especially when we have things like Space Force being stood up and a frenzy of disclosure. But you can also see, we were talking about this earlier, there’s been an acceleration, a speeding up across the world of sightings. More communities built, we’re more interconnected electronically than we’ve ever been before and maybe that is leading us down a path where we will recognize - the way that we are connecting now will allow us, will facilitate our path to conscious connection to each other. Because we’re already starting it. We already know - how many of you have cried because of something that happened on the other side of the world that you have never even met, you may not even know how to pronounce their name, but you’ve heard their story and it moved you in such a way that it changed you, you know. We [---] these on almost a daily basis. And so there does appear to be an acceleration. I don’t know what the governments of the world know and don’t know. I would say there hasn’t been a lot of wisdom that we have seen coming out of governments around the world in the last few decades. I would sure hope that there are those who are in conscious contact and hopefully they’re in contact with the beings that I have had contact with. Hopefully that conscious contact has led them to a place where they may be contemplating their own need to think about transcending.

Alan: Seems like you’re gonna be - this is the beginning of your journey… feel like there’s going to be more forces gathering around you.

I think so. I’m excited to be here telling my experience and helping others to know this incredible and encouraging message. I think it’s very encouraging. It’s changed my life. I am such a better human than I have ever been before. 

Nick: What would soft disclosure look like? I think this is exactly what it would look like from the perspective of the outsiders looking in to humanity. We’ve seen it before, we’re seeing it now. For those of you weighing the evidence, she is exactly who she says she is, this woman served at the highest echelons of the intelligence community and by nature is a writer. That’s part of being an analyst, an intelligence officer especially, is to be a good writer. So don’t let that throw you please… Have you considered going back to the location?

No. Not once. Let me walk you briefly through the couple of hours after I arrived back in the house. First of all, we started heading down to the tunnel around 3 in the afternoon and it was after 9PM when I first got out my phone to contact my daughter after I had just returned. So 6 hours went by. I can’t account for six hours, but it’s been something. So after I arrived back and I contacted my daughter, I was absolutely beside myself with a - I don’t know how to say - I was inconsolable. People were trying to have conversations around me and I couldn't even keep up a conversation. I was in my head, just completely trying to replay everything that had happened, and all I wanted, everything in my core wanted to be back there. I wanted to be with them. I wanted to be with them so badly it was the only thing in the world I wanted. And I never stepped one foot back or tried to go back, nothing. I can’t explain that. 

The next day after I saw Wayne and Trisha, cuz I had to go back and get my car - I had a friend come pick me up at about 3 o’clock in the morning cuz I couldn’t sleep, I’m walking around their house like somebody’s gotta come get me, I couldn't drive myself home, I was that out of my ability to think my way through what was happening. So a friend of mine had come and took me away from the house. The next day when I went back to get my car I spoke with them for a few minutes. And they - we all said, “Yeah let’s get together some time, let’s talk about this, let’s do this again.” And it never happened. I don’t even think that it was supposed to happen. I went on Google Earth, I showed my spouse exactly where it is, I could literally get in my car and drive there right now and yet I have never even tried. I don’t know how to explain that.

Alan: Is that from fear?

No, it’s like I have this understanding, I know I’m not supposed to go back. I never even tried. I mean I’m like a lion in a cage and yet I can go right out the front door and go back. But I didn’t. So the way that I’ve interpreted that all this time is that if they had wanted me to go back to the tunnel I would’ve gone back to the tunnel. So I think that it was just not necessary. I don’t understand.

Alan: You said you had a meeting with them afterwards anyway, someone else?

The next day I went back to get my vehicle from their home but I did not meet with Wayne and Trisha anywhere else.

Alan: No but the third meeting with the beings was with your daughter by a fire - was that after?

Oh, yes, yes, but that was prior to going out to Wayne and Trisha’s. Yes. The last time that I saw those - I have not seen the Grey, I have not seen the Tall Whites. I saw the lavender being a few times afterwards and I have had contact with a different being recently right before I wrote my post that was really imploring me for a few days that it was time, the urgency was now, now, now, now. And I began talking very wholeheartedly about it and more pressingly about it with my spouse - “Is this really what we’re gonna do? Are we really, is this really what we’re about to do? Yeah, I think we’re gonna have to do this.” [laughs]

Alan: What’s next for Anjali?

Tomorrow I’m going to sleep. Then I’m going to continue to work on this outline for the written experience to be shared with everyone. I suppose that if there are any requests for interviews or questions or appearances, I will take every day just one step at a time. We’ll see.

Alan: Your daughter’s experience - is she also transcending or changing her consciousness?

I think that my daughter is one of the most absolutely remarkable people that I’ve ever met. If anyone’s gonna be transcending it is definitely my girl, no doubt. As far as me sharing her experience, I cannot - that’s hers. She’s doing very well. She’s wonderful. Thank you. [end]

Apr 7, 2021 Extraterrestrial Evidence: Anjali gives a second interview - with Roderick Martin

Nick: [Former intelligence officer, contacted Anjali after her Reddit post and vetted her background including talking to former commander and section chief.]

Roderick: I read every comment on YouTube channel and Reddit, people asking questions. How have you been?

Thank you Roderick for asking. Hi everybody, I’m Anjali, it’s my pleasure to be here tonight, thank you for the invite again, Roderick, I really appreciate it. I have to tell you that I’m nervous tonight and I just want to put that out there. I have been well. This body of mine gives me some trouble so it’s been a challenge getting information out in a timely manner. Sometimes people are feeling frustrated and I spend a lot of time just answering question and just trying to soothe frustrations and curiosities. I’ve met many in the community and the support has been outpouring, as outpouring as some of the outrage and critique but definitely the support has been where my focus has been lying and it’s been wonderful. So thank you for asking, and thank you for having me… I am not alone and you are not alone. None of us are because as the higher beings have made very clear, we are all one consciousness and this separateness that we have is but a dream that we are all experiencing.

Roderick: Alphabet soup of credentials - why? Were you expecting people to accept your experience based on your credentials?

Um well no, I wasn’t expecting anything at all. I realized that there were a myriad of possible responses and the best that I could do was just put my most honest effort forward without a lot of consideration of the possible consequences that I could be facing. Do you understand what I’m saying? I wasn’t really expecting anything, I was really kind of expecting nearly everything. What I was hoping was that yes of course it would lend some credibility to at least my not being the kind of person who would be a disruptor which is really what this would be. Someone who would spread disinformation and try to destabilize people within my nation when I have literally dedicated my professional energy to stabilizing our nation in the global sphere and stabilizing even individual commands. I definitely hoped that it would lend some credibility but really a larger purpose in that, especially that alphabet soup you talked about, that was really more like an alarm call that I was trying to send out to people in the industry who may be, and probably were, in the subreddit listening and watching and observing either in their professional capacity or in their personal lives and they just happen to be those kinds of professionals. So it was really meant to speak to them that hey, I’m one of you and this is what I understand occurred and this is what I understand the message to be.

Roderick: What you have to lose is your credibility and you put that on the line which is great.

That’s right, it just didn’t feel, it doesn’t feel like a loss. I know what my background is, I know my credibility, I know my experience, and I feel just very confident in that and I think as time goes forward and if I do at any point get to a place where I can feel comfortable about coming forward with my identity, then I think that this will just pave the way for other people to come forward and to explain their own experiences.

Roderick: Number twelve stood out to me: you said you had access to intelligence that only 12 people at the time could know. Is that a reference to the Majestic Twelve? Were you associated with the Majestic Twelve.

No. No. Now, let me explain something about that. I’m glad you brought it up because it gives me an opportunity to try to defuse some misunderstanding that people have out in the community. I’m pretty new to this UFO related phenomena so I really walked right into that Majestic 12 reference without realizing it. Really what that 12 is about is in the intelligence industry it’s about compartmentalized information. We essentially break information down into compartments and only people with particular need to know can access that information at a particular time. It’s just how we control it so if you’re working on an account for the Middle East you’re probably not going to have access to what’s going on in Asia because it’s compartmentalized….. The higher up, the higher the risk becomes, the tighter the number becomes, and the tightest number is 12…. Only 12 at a time can access that program. [she was in one of those “12” programs but nothing to do with UFOs - Majestic 12 means this is of the highest classification]

Roderick: Why haven’t you reported it to the government and assess if there’s a national security threat?

That’s a really good question and I’ve tried to explain it and I actually had a to call a few different friends of mine since my last interview as I’ve been fielding question and just trying to figure out how to move forward. I have several friends who are in the FBI currently, several previous co-workers who are all prior military, who are all still working in the industry, that I have now reached out to and told them of my experience and asked them what do you think my burden of responsibility is in trying to make some kind of official report? I have to tell you 100% across the board, everyone came to the same conclusion I already have and that is this: That there is no tip line for this. There’s no tip line that I can call, there’s no department that I can look up and give them a call and report this to. I can’t just go into the local FBI office and try to make a report on this because the person that I’m going to get - guess what they don’t have, they don’t have special access program read-on, so they’re going to allow them to have any idea what I’m talking about. They’re gonna be out there - they’re working like violent crime on the streets, crimes against children, white collar crime, they’re out there dealing with these very hard realities that we’re locked in every day, and I walk in there and I tell them I have a message for humanity from aliens that I met in a mountain. They’re going to laugh me out of the room. So we all agreed that with my background, my social media is monitored, and that my coming forward is my report, my testimony, my public testimony every time I say something, it is my official report. There are people who have eyes on this, and if they have questions they will contact me.

Roderick: Coffee house: Wayne and wife and friends - how you met them and why you went with strangers, how did he dig this tunnel? What did you talk about?

In our last interview there was a lot on the front end, we took like 45 minutes almost an hour before we even got to the coffee shop and then I think I said maybe 2 minutes worth of stuff on the coffee shop and then we were out in the tunnel already. In retrospect I’m really glad that you’re asking these questions - great synchronicity. I’ve gotten a lot of questions about why I was willing to go to a second location with four strangers, why I was willing to go inside of a tunnel in a mountain somewhere in the desert, and this seems to be a really bit sticking point and has made my experience less understandable and less, even less relatable to people. So, great question. One of the first things that comes to mind is that we were in a very well known coffee shop and it has high daily traffic, it has a lot of local regulars, and in fact Wayne and Trisha - [Starbucks?] You can’t ask questions like that Roderick. [so we know it’s not Starbucks?] I didn't say anything. It is not a Starbucks but Wayne and Trisha were local regulars and I was less of a local regular. This coffee shop - like a lot of the coffee shops in southern California, they are like lounge areas set up so you’ll have couches and recliners and chairs that are facing each other in small groups, intimate little settings that are large enough for 8-10 people to be sitting together. There’s really an openness and a freedom of conversation there that in Southern California across the board has been my experience. If you’re willing to talk to strangers, you most certainly can. And I was definitely willing. So that was part of it is that I was in a different headspace and I wasn’t alone. When I met Wayne and Trisha I was with a friend of mine, Nick, and the four of us sat together and talked for quite some time. Nick was going to be on his way out the door when Wayne and Trisha came in, we were kind of wrapping things up but he ended up sitting there with us quite some time and just talking because it was very engaging. Wayne and Trisha came across as very authentic and sincere and outgoing. They could engage in politics and the nature of reality and consciousness as well as his illness and my illness and his possible cure, and my incurability and just how that had changed us as people. How we looked at life differently already.

​Nick excused himself and Wayne invited me then to go and see the beings that he was characterizing as aliens inside of a base in a mountain. So Nick knew who he left me with. If I had disappeared at any point - there were people who just knew who I was with, my daughter knew, Nick knew like I said, I dropped the name and phone number and physical address to my daughter prior to even leaving the coffee house and felt very confident that they understood, Wayne and Trisha understood, that - because we’d just had a conversation about my profession - that I probably wasn’t going to be someone that they could just swoop out of a coffee house and I could disappear, nobody would be looking. It would be a more difficult situation. They were just very open about everything, about where they lived, who they were, what they did for work. There was just nothing they were trying to conceal. I think even more importantly was that I’d just come off three spontaneous conscious contacts with higher beings who were communicating with me. I was really reeling in that. I was only talking to my daughter and my best friend about it at the time. I was really desperate for deeper understanding with that so when Wayne said that he had had contact with extraterrestrials on his mountain and that he’d excavated that tunnel and had made contact with them again, and could take me there, there was just nothing in this world that was gonna prevent me from going with him. There was just no question in my mind that it needed to happen.

Roderick: How did Wayne single-handedly excavate this tunnel without anybody knowing?

I can only tell you what he told me and I can tell you some facts about the Mojave Desert. The Mojave Desert is 3 billion bears old and it spans 48 thousand square miles, it’s larger than the entire state of PA. So people don’t really understand how large and vast the Mojave Desert is first of all. There is a lot of empty and unpopulated or sparsely populated space, so it’s very easy to do almost anything you want in the desert without being detected. 

Roderick: I guess our government does that now huh.

That is the honest to god truth. Someone sent me an article - I was tickled pink about it - about the Burro Schmidt tunnel that I’d never heard of, but I was so pleased. ​Apparently it is a tunnel in the Mojave Desert that in the early 1900s a man hand-excavated a tunnel through a mountain using explosives and just the tools that he had that he was using with his hands. You should look this up cuz its quite phenomenal and it really shows you that not only is it possible but that it’s been done before. And just imagine if you’re in the Mojave and you own a construction company and you have the know-how, you have the professional ability plus you have the equipment and I’m assuming - you can probably look this up - if you’re a construction company in the Mojave you have to be able to do demolition services, you have to do rock excavation, geologically it is just a must. We have people building homes that are partially earth sunken or partially recessed into the sides of mountains. It’s extremely common out here and everything is sand and stone, so if you’re in the construction business you’re going to know how to do this.

So from what I understand his process was, he said that he put military camouflage netting, desert camo netting up over a couple of bars that he had attached from a shed that was next to the mountain, just pressing up into the mountain, and he had it just draped over it. I didn’t notice it until we were just getting closer to the shed. Now there was a lot going on, I’m in my head thinking is this going to be real, they seem so up front, they seem so honest, I had a lot going on in my head as we were walking up to it. But it was pretty well camouflaged and he said that he used explosives and that he carried out the rock. I don’t know how long it took him. But the tunnel’s there, I was in it, he really did it.

Roderick: I don’t know how he knew where to go but just one of those things. What did you see in the tunnel?

You know I’m just kinda stuck on what you said a moment ago, you know I don’t know how he knew, and that’s a really good question. I don’t know how he knew where to dig either. I’ve thought about that a lot Roderick and I have to believe that with his contact, that he knew what to do, that he knew where to do it.

Roderick: Just like the message you were given, they wanted him to find them

Right! Yes! He told me that after he made contact with them he became absolutely obsessed, like single-mindedness of focus, and that was to get inside that mountain and find that base. And he did. So walking through the tunnel we’re in complete dark except for their headlamps, Wayne and his friend, the gentleman - I don’t remember his name, I don’t think I knew his name by the end of that evening - um they were both wearing headlamps, it was very dark. We had to have walked for 5 to 10 minutes. It was a relatively easy walk but I spent a lot of time looking down at my feet, you know. I’ve been asked a few times if there were any kind of support beams or anything he put up and I have one memory of there being a corner and feeling like there was something that had been up in the corner and I think it’s the corner where the light was coming at the end of the tunnel up in that corner of the tunnel there appears to be maybe a wooden beam or something that’s been used to reinforce in that area but I didn’t notice a lot of that because I spent a lot of my time looking down at my feet and making sure that I was going to be able to keep going and that I wasn’t going to trip. This was just a year after I had been released from the hospital, um and I was very fortunate that happened in a period I had had small periods of time where my disease progression would just give me a little bit of relief and I could almost behave like a normal person and walk around and do things without assistive devices and without concern about whether or not I was going to have the energy to do it. I was struggling, see. We had to go down hills and up hills - we had to walk quite a bit to get to the spot where the tunnel was on his property and so it was almost becoming an issue for me about the time we had reached the tunnel. So while we were in it I was extremely cautious and just hoping that what he said was going on was what was going on and that I was about to make contact and that I would have the strength to get there. So I would say the most remarkable thing about the tunnel isn’t that Wayne excavated it - any time anyone thinks that that’s the most remarkable part about it, it’s not the excavation. The excavation isn’t that difficult, people do it all the time, it’s the precision, it’s the right hand turn, and there was one - there was a right hand turn. I don’t know if the tunnel was straight or if we were meandering a little bit before then, I really can’t tell you, but I can tell you that it was definitely a right hand turn that we made and then 20 - I come around the corner at the end of this tunnel and 20 feet away after I come to a stop, 20 feet away from me is the beginning of the space and these beings that are standing there. And what is the most remarkable part about that besides the right turn is that I have looked at this time again in my mind’s eye, I cannot scrutinize it any harder, and there was nothing fractured between the rock and the base. What I’m trying to say is I didn’t see a door that recessed, it wasn’t a walkway - I don’t know if anyone has seen the map, I posted it, I think I may have posted it on Twitter, I think I sent it to you Roderick.

Roderick: I’m gonna load it on our website

In that diagram I show the doors, the arch doors - there are only two doors that I saw - both of those doors were these arched half circles, sliding pocket doors that automatically slid into the wall. And that was not what was going on where the rock met the base. Around the doors is like a doorframe, believe it or not, it’s like part of it is just protruding out from the wall, it’s not even you know. And I noticed that twice. And there was nothing like that where I walked from rock into base, it was seamless, there was nothing torn up, nothing broken, nothing open. If I try to see, out of peripheral, try to think like when I’m standing 20 feet away before I walk up to them - what do the walls look like around them in the tunnel, like what does it look like right there? Obviously I’m not looking at that, right? I’m looking at these beings. I can't take my eyes off of them. What I don’t notice is anything screwed up, like some crazy human took some explosives and blew through a wall. 

Roderick: You’re looking at the ETs and who cares about the formulation of this tunnel right?

No well no, I don’t mean that I don’t care, what I mean is that - because I do, I’ve thought about it so much and I’m trying to find all of the answers to the question that people are having about this. What I’m trying to say is that I was laser-focused on them, and they were about 20’ in front of me, but out of my peripheral I can still see the tunnel, the sides of the tunnel, where it meets, and I walked across from where it met from rock ground into their floor. All I’m trying to say is there’s nothing that’s all broken up, there’s no doorway, it doesn’t make sense to me Roderick. I see it over and over again and I have to say that I think that they just have this ability to [pause, laugh] I don’t know -

Roderick: They have to have been there for a long time right?

All that was crossing my mind at the time was just trying to - I was just trying to absorb as much as I could and remember as much as I could. I don’t know how else to say what I think the situation is with this seamlessness of where he’s excavating. Cuz I gotta tell you his tunnel, it’s not smooth, it’s very rocky and it’s pretty roughly done. I mean he did a great job, he’s a great contractor, but still it’s rustic and if he was using explosives to clear that rock, I’m having difficulty with suddenly there they are without him having caused any kind of damage. I’m assuming that they opened up some door that they’re able to physically manipulate physical reality and that’s what they did, that they allowed, somehow had to have inspired him to make that right hand turn. Why else would he have done it? It doesn’t make sense. And then to only go 30 feet and that’s it? And then you stop and there they are. That sounds to me like he was guided or simply even told in conscious connection. Maybe they consciously contacted him and said this is time to turn right, and he’s thinking oh it’s time to turn right. I don’t know but it’s a magnificent scenario, isn’t it?

Roderick: You’re saying he only had to dig 30 feet?

No no no dear, what I’m saying is that once he took his right turn he only had to go 30 more feet and there they were.

R: I’m just sitting here and I love it. [Asks about Wayne’s home]

Sure, let me talk about what his home was like. He has a ranch-style home with a couple of sunken rooms, he has a family so there are family pictures up on the wall. I remember a couple of kids’ drawings up the refrigerator with magnets, y’know. I noticed it because I’m a mother, and so I notice things like that. The home itself, they’re just normal everyday regular people, is what I saw in the home. I saw some really neat architecture which I am not surprised, given his background, but they’re modest people, very down to Earth. Before we went to the tunnel, I followed Wayne and Trish over to their home. Their friends - I don’t know why but it took them a few minutes to follow behind us - so I was with just the two of them in their home for a little while. As we were standing - they have a very open floor plan but their house is also split - split by rooms I don’t mean by floors. So the area that I was in was the open floor kitchen, dining, sunken living room, a little sitting area that led out onto a patio, and in the sunken living room there was a fireplace. The only way to get to another part of the house was this arch that had been constructed using wooden - three wooden beams. I guess it’s not really an arch cuz it’s square - I can’t think of what it’s called but it’s an entryway for walking from one area of the house to the other. It was the only passageway to the next area of the house, which also had some other sitting areas and their bedrooms and things, things that I never went anywhere near, a sunken family room, things like that were back there.

But the reason I mention this space is that it splits the home in half, and he said to me before we ever went to the tunnel, he said to me, “This is where they put me back after I’ve gone and saw them.” I said “What d’you mean?” He just said, “Well, after I see them and they’re done with me, they just put me back when they want me to go home and this is where I’m always put back.” I really didn’t know what to expect, but I was very hopeful given my three conscious contacts, okay. But I still really didn’t know exactly what I was dealing with. I just saw some very normal, very sincere and authentic people. So when we returned to Wayne’s home from base, the way that that happened was right at the end, after I was - after the higher beings were finished talking to me I guess, we went back out to the area where the base and the tunnel meet and I was standing in front of one of the doors with the group of the beings, and Wayne took a couple of steps forward to get to us, and he stepped into the base. And the moment that he stepped into the base, it was like the next second we were standing under that walkway in his house. Blink of an eye. I was beside myself, I was in complete and utter shock. In fact I threw my hands up to my head immediately and yelled at the top of my lungs, “What the fuck just happened?” Because I couldn’t believe what I had just experienced. And immediately Wayne was like, “What did they say to you? Where did they take you? Where did you go? Who did you see? What did you talk about? What did they want?” Just bombarding me with questions. And I was beside myself, I was almost - I was trying to keep it together but I had this almost panic inside, like I had just been separated from - Like, I had to get back, like I had been separated from something very centering and beautiful and perfect and I just wanted to get back to it. I was desperate. They were trying to have conversations with me and Roderick I was not able to have any kind of small talk. I couldn't really engage with them very much. I was like - I was stuck in my experience, and I was - I wasn’t having trouble with the experience I had just had, I was having trouble being put back into the reality that I was just in and not being in that experience any more. And not knowing how to cope with that, and realizing in those moments that that was probably going to be a lot of my life - that I wasn’t going to be in their presence, and I was just trying to deal with how in the world do I move forward after this? And that was what it was like in their house.

Roderick: You’d think after all that Wayne is just a normal guy, but at the end of the day for him to have the keys to go there when he wants to, but he was more curious about what you talked about, makes me wonder - do you think Wayne possibly had his own intimate contact with the higher beings as well?

Y’know, I’ve been thinking about that a lot since our last interview. Someone had asked me at some point, in some comment, and I hadn’t thought about it previously. But he and I were talking about our illnesses when we were sitting in the coffee house, okay, cuz he has cancer, and he divulged his disease progress with me and I divulged mine with him, and so we had this bonding moment, this understanding of - yeah, I get it, it really reprioritizes your life, it changes your worldview, or it can, if you allow it to. It can take you to some really great places, as well as some really tough and scary places. One of the things he said to me that I’ve been thinking about a lot Roderick, is he said that his assessment of me being ill was that I was holding in a lot, absorbing like all the negative energy that I’ve been exposed to in my line of work, and the things that people do, and the kinds of [---] we have to know, and the kinds of things we have to think about and consider and plan for that he said that it was literally eating me alive on the inside, and that I had to let it all go. And he said, you gotta stop watching the news, get a new career field, he’s saying, reevaluate your life, do something else completely, you’ve gotta let it go. You can’t go into intel.

And I’m sitting there saying, well y’know these days I’m trying to do more start-up work with new start-ups who are doing some - working for corporations doing intelligence. And he was like, no, no! Stop, stop what you’re doing, you’re just making yourself sick. You really have to just stop all of these things you’re doing and reevaluate your life. And when I think about that, that sounds a whole heck of a lot like what the lavender being said when it told me that I needed to stop focusing on human affairs. Y’know, doesn’t it?

Roderick: That is powerful, I mean very powerful.

My lavender being, as we know, was inside that mountain. And so yeah, I think that - whether or not Wayne knows it or not he’s had some contact. He’s definitely had some contact.

Roderick: I’ve got a few more things on my mind

I can come back too, another time, Roderick.

Roderick: This event had a profound effect on your life - how do you think all of this has changed you, and other people around you? Have they told you they’ve seen changes or anything like that?

Mmm-hmm, mmm-hmm, yes. Even my youngest son says that he noticed that I was happier, nicer, he said. Look, it’s not that I wasn’t nice. I’m a tough woman. I used to be a very tough woman. And I could run a pretty tight ship if I needed to. So I can understand, I’m much less malleable than I used to be and I’m really grateful. It’s actually one of the most - the things I’m most grateful for in my life, the change that I’ve had is just how much more willing I am to meet other people where they’re at and to try to accommodate connecting and communicating with people in a way that - I mean I think I always understood the value of communication, especially being in the background that I was in, but there’s just a difference between knowing and understanding and I really had - you’ll hear me say this a lot, y’know, that I knew something at one point but then after the experience I understood it. And that’s really - that’s been like one of the great motifs of this, is there’s a difference between knowing and understanding and you understand that after you have experienced it.

So I had, immediately afterwards, I would say I experienced complete decisional paralysis in my life, I didn’t know how to move forward with anything. The beings had given me such an overwhelming message, and then had also told me to stop meddling in human affairs, or stop focusing on human affairs, I guess is a better way to put it, and to focus on the things that they wanted me to focus on and I didn’t know how to do that. And so for the first time ever in my life I was given a task that I didn’t understand how to complete at all. So I was paralyzed for - I would say several months. A friend of mine that came and picked me up that night from Wayne and Trish’s house, his name is Rhys, and he thought that I had been traumatized in some way when he came to get me. He was one of the friends that I dropped a pin to. Perhaps even assaulted. Because he said that I didn’t talk to him about anything about what I had seen inside the mountain but that I told him that I had gone through a tunnel into a mountain. And that I wasn’t ready to talk about what I had experienced. And so his assumption at that point is, "Oh my goodness, Anjali has been sexually assaulted" and so he was, y’know, using some real velvety gloves with me there, emotionally, thinking that something really terrible had happened. Of course as time went on I told him everything and he - knowing me as he did, believed me without a doubt, and we talked about how it had changed me and he said that I seemed to be more open about who I am, and that I had more of a willingness to share that with other people and to just be more accepting of myself and others and he said that overall I was just more transparent, y’know, and I communicated more, that I became less career-driven and more driven by happiness in the moment and in seeking that, rather than chasing the potential happiness of tomorrow. Those were all real things that I experienced, and we could honestly, honestly, Roderick we could talk for days about this changes that I have gone through since I had that experience with the beings in the mountain. We truly could. It’s been quite transformative.

Roderick: You already knew we were all connected, I pondered that. But after your experiences you now understand it. Did you have time before the contact that if you had to look back, you thought you may have had contact with them, d’you know what I mean?

I do know exactly what you mean and I can tell you yes, without a doubt, before and since, but definitely looking back throughout my life - in fact I just had a very in depth conversation with my mother about a shared recollection that I would say about every ten years she and I talk about again. When I was finally ready to share with her my experience in the Mojave, we revisited that experience and it involves some pretty close contact when I was a child. It’s really quite interesting. I think that there may be a lifetime of contact that I just wasn’t quite consciously aware of. We would, like I said, that’s really such a huge topic I don’t even know where to begin.

Roderick: How do we meditate and experience conscious connection?

That is a very big question, it’s also a very simple question. We can experience conscious connection almost any time - we have this false sense of being separate individual beings and having some kind of disconnect, and because we believe that we’re disconnected we don’t seek the very thing that we already have. We exist in it. It’s like peeling away layers, y’know, we have a lot of human layers that we need to work through. We are dealing with that a lot over on the Transcendence Project in Reddit - we call it Transcension Project - you can look me up over there. And I’m on Twitter and we talk about that quite a bit, we talk about meditation. I would really say that we each need to approach it in a way that is conducive to where we are at currently rather than someone trying to meditate and become a guru overnight. People get very discouraged, they walk away, they can’t relate, it’s so foreign. It’s really a process and I would love to come back and talk about it some time. Or you can just visit me in Transcension Project and we’re talking about it over there, pretty in depth.

Roderick: Barbara [Lamb] does regression, hypnotherapy. I wonder if you two could connect. Would you be willing to have her do a regression with you?

I would love to connect with Barbara - unfortunately, like I said being new to the community, I’m not familiar with her work. I trust your judgment Roderick, and I will definitely look into connecting with Barbara. I am in the search right now for a hypnoregressionist who has experience interviewing contactees. I have multiple events that I need regression on, and I am really in the market for one right now.

Roderick: [will connect them]

That would be wonderful, I really look forward to it.

Barbara: Thank you so much for sharing all that, it’s just very remarkable. I’m wondering what the beings appeared like?

Roderick: Barbara tell the audience your background first.

Barbara: [background: starting in 1991 she mostly does regression for people wanting to know the details of their ET encounters, also learned later in life that she’s had ET experiences; usually encounters go for a whole lifetime even if the person doesn’t realize it; wrote a book about hybrid program]

Roderick: Anjali what do you think, she’d be a great person to do this with, right?

Oh absolutely. Barbara, if you would be willing to work with me, I think that you and I might be able to discover some really neat things.

Barbara: I think so too. I’m so pleased you’d like to do that, I’d very much like to.

I would as well. I cannot wait.

Alan: You said there was no one you could tell about this - since you’re an intelligence person, is that a failure of the intelligence world?

I think the problem has been that in the past, denial has been the position so if we refuse to acknowledge then we certainly cannot set up an office where we can report the very thing that we refuse to acknowledge. So is it a failure? Yes, absolutely. Does it make sense? Yes, absolutely - it just does, doesn’t it?

Alan: It must’ve started with someone saying we’re not going to deal with this.

I cannot tell you where that started because I do not know. I try not to speculate too much on these things, honestly, because people are very sensitive about it and they are a lot of individuals out there with information on this subject who might be more knowledgeable. What I can tell you is that it seems that whether or not it was a failure by policy or a failure by necessity, we have I think we’ve come to a point where it’s really a moot point because there is so much disclosure that is happening around us right now.

Alan: As you transcend is your body getting healthier?

I would say that my body has become less consequential to me than it was before, rather than - yeah, that’s what I would say Alan, that I feel differently about the body that I’m in, I feel differently about the body that you’re in, isn’t that wonderful? I feel differently about the body that we’re all in - it really just doesn’t matter to me anymore.

Alan: Thank you for being vulnerable and open, it’s an important testimony.

Roderick: Would you and Barbara, can we talk about it and how it went?

I think Barbara and I will know when it’s time for us to come together and talk to you about whatever we have talked about. Give me a little time, Roderick. I’m excited, I really am. Honestly this is all my partner Max and I have been talking about, is hypnoregression and I have reached out to a couple, I’ve had no success, so here I show up tonight and Barbara it’s so lovely that you’re here. Roderick I can’t believe that you facilitated this because it’s what I’ve been working on, it’s amazing.

Roderick: I know you’re working on a book, too, so tell us when this book is coming out and where can people get information about that? Did I jump the gun on that?

Well yeah no, no, you haven’t jumped the gun. It’s been really difficult for me because like I said I’m new to the community, and within the community everyone says, “Oh you have to - you need to write a book because you need to get your experience out to as many people as possible on the best platform,” and it makes sense. And then I allow myself to read some of those comments and people say, “Oh if you’re selling a book you’re just a shill for the money. That’s what this is all about.” And I know that in my heart of hearts that isn’t true, so it’s very difficult for me to even want to promote the very work that I’m doing, y’know? [whining]

Roderick: Don’t even worry about that.

It’s very difficult but yes, I am writing a book and we’re hoping that it will be shipped by the beginning of October. And maybe before then, but I wanted to give myself the time, especially with my health concerns and everything, to really work on that.

Roderick: Is there a website?

You can - yes, here I am, this is making me very uncomfortable to promote myself.

Roderick: I’m muting everyone’s mic so they can’t hear what you say. Pretend it’s you and I… What is your website?

TranscensionProject.com 

Roderick: Okay! That wasn’t so hard. Repeat it again.

TranscensionProject.com. Thank you so much Roderick, and I can’t wait to speak with you, Barbara.

Roderick: I just want to know

You will, my friend, I will not leave you out.​

Apr 19, 2021 ​Añjali: Higher Beings have a message of caution and encouragement for humanity (YouTube)

Anjali said in July that she was not channeling the beings, but receiving communication and "translating" in real time. The last part of the following is a communication from the Four - on April 21 she explained that she can "hear them speak directly into an area ~3" above my right temple, moving diagonally."
Hello, thank you for being here. I am Anjali and I am in conscious contact with higher beings who have a message of caution and encouragement for humanity. They have asked that I channel them. At this time I’m not fully given in to the channel. I have my hesitations, you can imagine. However I am still very much in contact with them, receiving their communications. Today they would like for me to share those with you.

[paused for meditation]

Humanity, you are not alone. We come to you in peace, compassion, and understanding of your perceived condition. Humanity, we are three members of an alliance of races from beyond the planet that humanity calls Earth. We have been called many things by humans but our mission remains the same - to nurture humans in their evolutionary development. To do this, you must elevate your consciousness and remember who you are. 

Humanity, you have forgotten who you are. You have come to believe in illusory things such as the belief in life and in death as a beginning and an end to who you are in this brief human experience. You do not see that you are an expression of the one source, the infinite consciousness that animates all things [and?] experience as you animate the biotechnology of the human body.

Because you have forgotten who you are, and think that you are the biotechnology that you currently inhabit, you injure and you interfere. Your actions are destructive to the experience and growth of all. Other dimensions and worlds suffer in their experience because of humanity’s actions. If humanity were allowed to continue in this manner, you would annihilate humanity as a race and bring an end to the world that was consciously and deliberately created through the senses of biotechnology of the human body.
In an effort to prevent this we are asking humanity to expand your minds and connect with us in conscious contact so that you may remember who you are and why you are here. It is imperative that humanity remember its connection to the one source. When you remember this, you will see that you are connected to the source as an expression of consciousness. Just as the wave in the ocean is not separate from the ocean but is a momentary expression that manifests to heights before being brought down, brought - drawn back into the whole, and it brings with it the experience of being expressed as a wave.
Humanity, remember who you are. Remember why you are here and prepare to transcend. 

The council has ended its message for the day but the Four have a message - it is a message of caution and encouragement for humanity:
​
Humanity, we are four members of an alliance of races from beyond the planet and the plane that humanity calls Earth. We have watched humanity grow throughout the accounted ages. We have seen what manifests when the human mind causes you to forget from whence your consciousness originated. Humanity, the human experience has become untenable, it is a threat of the source in places that humanity disrupts with violence. You destroy a race, you destroy many races, many opportunities for consciousness to experience and grow. You disrupt. You are reckless in your forgetting. We are returned to assess and judge the viability of humanity as a biotechnological race with the ability for sensory experience of consciousness. The human biotechnological development of [y]our race is at a crucial stage as it desires to leave its atmosphere. We have come to separate the wheat from the chaff. ​

Apr 25, 2021 Extraterrestrial Evidence livestream with Roderick Martin: ​The New Message From The ETs

Roderick: How are things?

I’m doing really well, I’m tired, very tired lately. I’ve really been fatigued but that just comes with the territory of chronic illness - every day just take one day at a time, move forward. Today is a very tired day but I’m here and I’m very happy to be here.

Roderick: I see you’re excited. I’m excited!

I wanna say something! [she and Max are sending him a birthday gift]

Roderick: Tell me how do we get where we are now? We have a message, we’re gonna get into it.

We’ve been having - I’m so sorry, I have to pull up something very quickly here [on laptop]. I have to first tell you that I did not prepare anything to talk today, I really want this to be very conversational. So I don’t have a speech to give or a monologue or anything like that, but I can just share with you what’s been happening here. I would say that it was about 10 days ago that contact really ramped up. There was a change in the mannerism of how I was contacted and the way that it sounded and felt. Things were just beginning to change and I was getting a little nervous about it. We’ve had some disruptions around our house, where we have seen multiple shadows coming in and out of whatever room I will be in, multiple times throughout the day. We catch them around doorways, reflecting on the actual doors as they go through, and we see them together. 

I was meditating one day - we have carpet in the room - we all know what it sounds like when someone walks on carpet, right? Okay so I’m sitting there meditating, Max is not home. Our animals were all sequestered to their own rooms - our animals have their own rooms, they have to - and I heard the very distinct sound of someone approaching the side of the mat I was sitting on. I opened my eyes, there was no one there, so I said hello, is there anyone there, no response. It truly felt - the room felt heavy, is the only way I know how to explain it. I didn’t receive any kind of contact, no message, nothing happening in the room. So I went back to my meditation and shortly after I heard the footsteps recede from the room I was in. So I had someone physically in the room with me that I could not see.

I’ve had multiple instances of someone attempting to remote-view into my home through my eyes. Oh yeah, absolutely. I can tell the difference between conscious contact with a higher being, of course, and conscious contact with a human mind. And multiple times recently I have had someone trying to, a human trying to come in and see what I’m doing. It doesn’t last very long, thankfully, only a moment or two, couple of seconds at the most, which is actually a really long time when you’re in that state where you can feel someone else intruding. Of course I immediately as quickly as I could shut it down. But I thought it was really interesting and I’m not really surprised. 

Let’s see, uh so I had been meditating in the morning and then Max and I were going for a ride, we had to go pick something up, and we were talking about consciousness of course. We were talking about the previous messages, and we’re always reflecting and just trying to find any connection to current events, things that are happening in the world, other people that are experiencing things, you know that sort of thing. I received a face and it was the face of a Grey that I have become very familiar with now. It was simply like a hello, okay? And then there was a sense of - it was like an introduction, okay, where I had this flash of a ship, and it was very very quick, and it was followed by the - “We have come to separate the wheat from the chaff.” The way that this came in to my head was unlike anything I have ever experienced before. And I’m so glad to be able to show everyone because I am really looking for other people who are having the experience I am having. So if you are out there and you are listening to this, I ask you to please contact me. We will make sure we have the contact information that you’ll need to be able to get ahold of me. I am looking for the people in the network that the beings have shown me. So please if you think you’re one of those people at the end of the show tonight please contact me.

Okay so with that said, the sound - first of all, my beings when they speak to me they show me their face, they send me a feeling, then they send me an image that, like I’ve said before has all the metadata in it that’s just like automatically in my head all of a sudden. This was a very different experience. It came in above my - like right temple, right about here okay. It was as if - it felt almost like an electrical kind of not a current but an electrical sound and it came through my face and out my jaw over here. That was how it felt, it cut through my face and out my jaw. It sounded almost computerized or electronic, it didn’t sound - first the fact it came in words and sound was really something but the sound of it was - I don’t even know how to replicate it except to say it sounded as if you took a human voice and you ran it maybe through a computer, and tried to make it sound electronic-y. That’s what it sounded like. They introduced themselves as the Four. 

Well actually we have quite a unique situation - it’s either happening now or it’s - I can’t tell if it’s developing of if they’re showing me that it’s already like this okay. But - trying to think of how best to say this - there are essentially like several groups of beings who are either here or on their way, but I believe that they are here now. One of the groups is the Council that we’ve discussed, and this is my word, the word I couldn’t quite translate what they were telling me, I was saying everything from an assembly, an association, an alliance, going through all the words I can think of. So it really doesn’t matter if you wanna call it a council, a federation, a group, I don’t care. I call it a council because it made more sense to me that way. This is my understanding - there are 7 members of a council, this council is very old, doesn't mean everybody on the council is of the same age or the longevity as a member okay. Representatives can change, you don’t always have to have the same representatives but you have the members, the member state. These 7 have for a very long time watched over the development of humanity. They have had interaction with us, in numerous ways throughout our history. We have understood that and translated that in numerous ways, including religiously and deemed them gods, angels and whatnot. 

And I know that's very inflammatory, I realize that. This is what they’re telling me. This council of 7 tasked with watching over humanity a very long time ago, I don’t know what that means, I don’t know if that’s human long time ago, or ET or higher being long time ago. But long time ago. There was a disagreement about how to proceed with humanity because we were not evolving in the way - we were not progressing and evolving in the way they wanted us to, there was some kind of disagreement, we were becoming extremely violent, and it’s my understanding that there were two members of this council that left okay. That’s been some time ago. The remaining 5 kept their task of watching over us and seeing what we’re doing and I don’t know what all that they are doing. Then more recently in our human history, but I don’t mean recent as in a lifetime, I get the sense it’s been some time ago but I can’t quantify that for you, but because of how terribly violent we have become, there were two other members who left the council and that left them with 3 members. There were these other 2 went out there and are aligned in some way together now with the first 2 that had left. And so now that have formed this four. The beings were really clear that they were returning, and we had to prepare for that, to elevate our consciousness, realize our oneness and our origin that we’re more than the human biology that we inhabit. The entire message which we can go over, we can break it down little by little but this is just the overview.

Part of their message to me when I was with them in the mountain was - there was a very big sense of urgency, they’re coming, everybody - you need to remember who you are, you remember what you’re doing here, you need to prepare for transcendence. It was also made clear to me that not everyone would make it - I didn’t understand what that meant at first. It appears to have something to do with our conscious awareness and some kind of divide that is going to take place within our race based on our openness to the sanctity of life essentially, the right for other living things to live without us thinking that we have the right to take that life away from them. Every single expression of life is an expression of the source having an experience. We have forgotten that and because of that we have become incredibly violent and are causing terrible disruption in other places in a way that they’re saying is here but not here. [gestures with hands] Where are we causing this disruption? They were showing me everything is here but not here. Everything is right here right now. Which was incredibly mindblowing. So I don’t really know where to go other than to say that - okay so back to the three groups that are here. The council is here, all members of the council are here on Earth, they’re in our atmosphere, they’re above our atmosphere, they’re here. The four are here. They made it clear, they are here. They are not only above our ionosphere, they’re here on the ground. 

Then there is a third group - and this was what was really just eye opening to me. They show me the Earth and they show me it’s surrounded by beings who have come to bear witness to the events that are going to be taking place on Earth. And it’s like - they have a vested interest and it’s in the best interest of humanity. But they are here as observers, almost like a UN and the UN observers that will go in to countries that are in civil war and other kinds of unrest. It’s like that, they’re here to bear witness to what’s happening. I’ve been waiting to tell you this Roderick - 

Roderick: Then I am all ears [gives her a pep talk]

Thank you, I appreciate it, it is hard, it’s scary. Every day I wonder will this be the day that someone will discover my identity and show up at my door or find my daughter at work? So many things go through my head. Those things come and go - they’re very fear-based [......................]
I’m not the only one right now, I get so many messages, people are so afraid to come forward and tell others that they are having this same experience. We need more people to feel like it is a safe environment and tell people their story [.....................]

Roderick: [encourages her to get straight to the message, that’s what people want to know]

A couple of things. First of all I found that third group, as a former defence professional, I found it the most interesting part. [laugh] You would think all of this is very interesting but there was something about it that I was unprepared for. They keep showing me a ship. [composes herself] This ship is, it’s like it’s alive. First of all, it’s tremendous in size and it feels when they show it to me, it feels so incredibly heavy and dense.

Roderick: How big?

I’d say it could rival our moon, I’m not sure. I’m getting big but more than big - okay it is massive but more than big what I’m trying to really get across here is how heavy and dense it feels. You know what an anvil is, have you ever seen an actual anvil because they’re huge and they’re just solid metal and you need equipment to be able to pick them up […….] Imagine squeezing it until it’s just so dense, dense, dense, still the same matter and it’s dense dense dense until it’s so small it’s like a beebee. That’s how this feels but it’s huge and it’s heavy, so heavy. It’s like it’s alive. They show me it almost looks like there’s an opening okay and it’s almost like there is atmosphere that’s kind of leaking out. It’s kind of like misty or foggy, it’s not blowing out, there’s not clouds billowing out, it’s nothing dramatic like that, this is a very subtly wispy that comes from the bottom of this. It's like there are tree roots or some kind of vine or organic matter that’s hanging, like it’s growing, and they live inside of this and it’s where they all live. They don’t have a planet, it’s like this is their planet. I don’t know what to do with that. It feels so old. It doesn’t feel like anything else okay. 

There’s something about this that is like okay, the only way I know to say it, I’m just gonna say it, sorry if it sounds crazy - it’s like the ancients are here. That’s what it’s like, the ancients are here. These are the oldest beings, they’re here to witness what’s happening. But they’re not just here to witness what humanity is going to do, it’s like they’re where to witness how the four are going to handle their part in what needs to happen.

Roderick: Timeline? 

There is because they’re saying we’re coming to an end of, like a cycle, an era. I get this feeling of turning over, coming to an end. And it’s like there’s going to be a separation based on - this is some kind of human biotechnology, that splinters of consciousness animate. We were not - these bodies were not created for a consciousness, they are created for consciousness to experience. But it is some type of human biotechnology and I don’t understand what that means but it’s almost like maybe there’s something about our individual capacity? Um - it’s not - they don’t - nothing looks like this concept of death that we have okay? Which they’ve said, there’s just no such thing as, it’s a completely human idea that we came up with when we forgot what we’re doing here. That’s how I’m - I may not be saying that right but it’s something like that. It’s not going to be a separation of death of body, release of consciousness, but some other type of separation where those who are able to transcend move into - they show me like a different place, the here but not here, it’s almost like a higher dimension like we're moving up. And some people won’t. And that’s where the separation occurs. 

And it’s not that anyone - personally I don’t like that message, I don’t even like to watch that video, I think I’ve seen it once through and I haven’t watched it again, the video where they asked me to come forward and give their message. Earlier this week. We have these three groups who are here now and I feel like that’s an escalation personally. Maybe I should stop feeling that way but I feel like it's an escalation and we have perhaps the oldest entity that we can conceptualize, and I mean I can’t, I can’t even, I wish, who are here and they want nothing but the best turnout for humanity. They want as many of us as we can to transcend. We have to absolutely stop this violent tendency that we have. We absolutely - non violence one hundred percent non violence. We never resolve anything in a violent way because it’s that violence and our development of technology that is causing the most of the issue that we’re having. Because of this here but not here, and the fact that we are sharing space with other beings that we can’t see, but we are using technology that can disrupt - it’s like move across barriers, have horrible consequences, so we’re not just - when we bomb things, we’re not just bombing our humans and all of the life that we know that we share the planet with that we’re aware of, but we’re doing some really horrific damage to other places. And that’s really what’s just become intolerable.

There are - we have to elevate our human consciousness and evolve this race specifically so that it can continue to exist without destroying itself, without destroying others, and without needing this kind of interruption from higher beings. We’re just being offered a choice here, every single one of us is being offered a choice and we just have to decide, well whadda ya wanna do, do you really wanna hold on to all of these human constructs that we have and fight your neighbor and be divided as a race and y’know be so patriotic about your country that you’re ready to go kill anybody overseas just because they’re different and just because somebody in our capital told us to? All of it has to stop. It has to stop. This is a very important message that the four have shown repeatedly, that they were not very happy that I chose not to say - but I was so distressed by the “We have come to separate the wheat from the chaff” and I felt like there was a compulsion or a compelling that was going on that was a little bit too much for me where I was really starting to feel less like myself and I wasn’t liking it so I had to cut video.

But this is what they wanted to say and that is they want to say that our world leaders need to essentially eradicate our borders. That if humanity ever wants to leave this planet and join other races out there beyond our own atmosphere, we absolutely 100% have to unite as humanity on this planet and we have to eradicate our borders and all of these artificial barriers that we have, and progress as one. And if you can’t do that, then you’re probably gonna be separated and I don’t - that’s all I’ve got.

Roderick: Unconfuse me a bit. You talk about there are 7, we got 4, the premise of this is world peace, the other 3 are they for peace?

Oh the council is nothing but love and compassion. Think of it like tending a garden with love.

Roderick: What made them have a division, they’re higher consciousness than we are but not sticking together as 7?

I don’t know. It is confusing. I don’t understand. My sense is that this is exactly, that maybe the division wasn’t unplanned, um. That - something about it seems like everything is just right. I don’t have any way to explain that but it’s like oh, everything is in order, like the table is set, that’s what it’s like, that’s the image I get, the table is set. Well nobody’s afraid of a set table right? That’s where we all come together to have a meal. Well the table is set and we have to decide are we going to dine together? 

Alan: Anjali your message is great but you worked with the government, shouldn’t you be saying this to the leaders? The people you were connected with? Those are the people that are making wars and building guns & nuclear weapons. Most people want peace!

Well I have actually contacted multiple people that I worked with previously and I’ve told them my story. So I am doing that.

Alan: What happened? What did they say to you?

Oh they believed it and they said keep telling it, we support you.

Alan: It seems like a bigger response, like a meeting of the generals, getting something bigger together, it seems not enough.

Roderick: You’d think when they said they want to break down the borders, that ain’t the agenda for our military. We’re talking about money and power here.

Alan: That’s the problem, that’s what we’re dealing with, that type of thinking.

I wanted to answer Alan on that. I understand what you’re saying Alan. I don’t know what those people are doing with that information. I will say that personally for me it took me three years to have the courage and a lot of prompting by the higher beings to come forward before I was willing to come forward. It was just a perfect storm of timing for me when I thought - I have nothing to lose at this point. My obligation to come forward and say what I know now, which at the beginning even in March when I first started communicating, I was waiting to be given more information to go forward. I had hundreds of people asking, what now? What’s next? And I didn't know. I guess that’s one thing that I want to stress is that I don’t always know. I know what I have been allowed to know I think. So the others who I’ve [told] I don’t know what they’re doing with it in their personal lives or in their professional lives. I would suspect that they are probably pretty hesitant to come forward even if they believe it themselves, especially if they are still working in the field. It’s career suicide, even with all of the disclosure that’s happening. You start saying things like this to the wrong people and you can have your clearance pulled pretty quickly.

Q: What is the source’s recommendation on how to accelerate the human race?

I can only tell you what has happened in my own life and so here we go. When I was first given this message after I met the beings in the mountain, I went through this process - first I wrote down their message which was that humans have to change the way that we communicate because our language is divisive and ego-binding and it causes more confusion and division than it does unity, especially when we don’t even speak the same language. But all of us have the capacity of speaking in conscious contacts with one another, and with higher beings. And so they’re asking us to essentially meditate? Essentially to meditate? Um and that they will contact us through the subtleties in meditation.

Q: Are they talking to you right now, is that where this is coming from?

Yes, I’m so sorry, I was trying - yes um. They said that they were going to be here tonight. They want us to think about everything from the water that we drink and that we can affect the actual molecules of the water, which they say is alive. It has life, it has a consciousness that we can affect with the way in which we interact with it. And they use water as an example of that. The work of Emoto - I know it’s been controversial, but they’re showing that this is important work. It was a demonstration of manifestation. With our thoughts we create the world with our thoughts, we make this world and this experience and that was the importance of what Emoto was doing, was that he could capture that in the microscope. So they want us to think about our relationship with water. They want us to think about the fact that water makes up 80% of the human adult body, and 80% of our Earth that we’re living on, this large living organism that we have a relationship with….. Our thoughts affect even the water without our own bodies, people around us, the water on the Earth. That we’re changing things with our actual thoughts - they are becoming manifest. We have to be aware of that, be aware that you are creating your experience with your very thoughts. The idea of again this what you think is happening here is not - they want to help us understand that. They want to help us understand our consciousness and our connection to one another. Part of that - they’re saying again, the water is alive, the water is alive. Even though at the same time they’re saying but there’s no such thing as life and death. It’s almost like this circle they’re showing, like a cycle. So maybe what I’m supposed to say is water is conscious, like these bodies have consciousness, there’s a consciousness in water. [looks dissatisfied with answer]

Q: Are you familiar with Barbara Lamb?

I met Barbara on my second interview on Clubhouse so I am familiar with her, I’ve heard her speak but I’m not familiar with the body of her work [……….] We are going to be setting up a hypnoregression. 

Q: Did this change the way you think about your faith?

It’s a big one! [difference between dogma and spirituality] When we’re on that spiritual question that is a quest for conscious awareness, it’s a search for self. We are trying to reveal our own selves - we have this false idea that we are disconnected from the source but we are not, we are already connected, we just have to - it’s the ego, it’s this world is so dense, Earth is very dense and I don’t know what dense means, it’s dense, our bodies have a hard time here, it’s so heavy. The gravity is heavy. It’s not gravity, I don’t even know how to explain it so I’m gonna take that back. They’re saying no no. Essentially, what I understand is that a lot of our human divinely inspired texts are a compilation of divine inspiration and human translation and ego. They’re saying that it’s like a mesh, that it’s not, that everything is close but not quite. We have a misunderstanding about our origin and the source of consciousness. They show that Christ had like a very high conscious awareness, they show that he traveled and studied with the ancient ways. That he was like a mystic, a Jewish mystic - was in conscious contact who did perform, he performed acts of manifestation, that he reached a level of conscious awareness, that he could consciously control his manifestations and they want us to aspire to that, to conscious awareness of our manifestation because right now when we’re manifesting without that we manifest destruction, is what they’re showing. Manifestation without an understanding of the spiritual seed causes destruction. When we manifest from an understanding of our source, that we create.
​
We create instead of destroy, and so like the Christ, the Christ created, he never destroyed. And that’s the kind of elevated consciousness that they want us to all strive towards. And I use this because - [pause] they’re showing lots of prophets that have had contact. They show that we’ve called them by all sorts of things throughout human history and that the further we get away from our understanding of our source of origin, the less of an understanding - how do I put this - The further that we get away from our understanding of the source, the more that we tend to revere higher conscious beings as gods. They’re saying that that’s destructive because the human race can get to that, we can evolve to that level of conscious awareness and continue to progress our species if we so choose. [again looks dissatisfied with her answer]

Q: I want to honor everything that is coming through you right now, as a starseed who’s been communicating with my star family for many years, all the things you’re saying are things I’ve perceived and received as well. I just want to validate you right now and give you that positive encouragement that you’re channeling is beautiful and the messages are coming through loud and clear.

R: [looking for another Q to ask]

Sorry I just have to say real quick cuz they’re being persistent here because of where I left it with - they’re saying that you can be like us, you can be like us. They want us to understand that the separation that’s occurring it’s not going to be a negative thing. It’s just that it’s going to propel - that the end of those two things is going to end up being nearly two different species near the end, so no one - there’s no extinction that’s going on, they’re like showing like two, two, but one’s going to be here still and the other’s going to be evolving in a higher dimension. [blows out cheeks]

Q: have you physically been with the beings other than in the mountain

Yes, I have. They have told me that they have been visiting me my entire life. One of the most remarkable things - I of course have shared all of this with my mother - she’s 70 and we have almost 50 years of history between us. We were talking just recently about an event that occurred when I was 3 or 4 years old. I’ve remembered this my entire life and she and I have always talked about it every few years. I grew up in the south, and one night there was a very large UFO that was parked right over our house and we lived in the suburbs at that time. We hadn't like moved out into the country. We lived right there in a neighborhood. They said that I was with them that night. They have shown me the moment of contact with them. They returned me into the house. It happened very late at night. When they returned me to the house, I was up on the couch looking out the front window and everybody in the neighborhood was outside and you could see all of these lights that had lit up the neighborhood. That’s my memory of the people outside, is just them being colored by all the lights and how I could see part of the ship that was above our house, and I was so excited and happy and not afraid at all. They came to me throughout my childhood, which is why I’m so eager to get my hypnoregression with Barbara and let’s see, multiple times in the Mojave, they have come here, we’ve had - they told me that we’ve had a parade of beings that come through, curious, they’re very curious because now that I’m doing this, there’s all kinds of beings that want to come and see the human that’s doing this stuff. Our animals react quite interestingly to it. Sometimes they come with smells, sometimes it’s just sounds, it’s very interesting. Multiple beings, interdimensional, and they are, like the beings that I communicate with - they can move in between dimensions, they’re not, it’s not what we think it is. They’re showing me that they can be very far away but right here at the same time.

Alan: Grant Cameron says we think of them as aliens, interdimensional, it’s none of that, it’s just how we related to that in our limited way.

That’s what they show, it’s very - it’s the best way that I know how to explain it, I just don’t have the words.

Alan: We haven’t evolved to the point we can meet them on the level that they really exist

Yes, yes.

Q [Kevin]: Aliens telling us via you to stop misbehaving. Why not speak to us directly? Why not show themselves?

[pause] Well they are speaking to us directly, they say that not everyone is listening. They’re saying that - they’re showing that people have to take that first - that leap in the - in our oneness? In like the fact that we’re all connected and have come from one source, that we have to - It’s almost like they’re showing like fake it till you make it, is the only other way I know how to say it. It’s like they want us to - and I know this isn’t a direct question, Kevin, but it’s an answer, okay, and they’re giving it right now - and they’re saying that they want us to take - you have to take that leap and like fake it until you make it. So believe - it’s like the thing maybe that I always explain or say the difference between knowing something and understanding - they want us to know it, okay. And then they want us to - even if we don’t fully embrace it and understand, they want us to live like it anyway. Because it’s in that living that the awareness of our consciousness will continue to - it’s like we unlock our own prison in our mind, like that’s what they’re showing, like we begin to unlock our own consciousness. And they’re saying that a lot of consciousnesses are so bound, so tight and knotted right now that it’s like they’re just not hearing and that the contact, like a visual contact would be terrifying, and met with violence. They’re saying like massive contact just suddenly without preparation will lead to misunderstanding and will lead to violence, and they don’t want to have to defend themselves against us. Because this is gonna happen. [flash of dissatisfaction with her answer]
[interrupts Roderick] I just want to tell Kevin um I’m sorry, Roderick, it’s just Kevin is very special to me, hello Kevin. [coy]. 

Roderick: I thought I was special.

You are, goodness gracious, you know that already, but I want Kevin to know… that I hear the questions within his questions and we have a lot, he and I, to discuss about his own process and I know, I haven’t forgotten you, I just want you to know that.

Q: Do they identify themselves with a name? If we reach out in conscious contact, should we refer to them by a name?

You know that is such a great question, and I have struggled with how to refer to them because I have not been given any names. I know them by their faces and their feelings. I know them by the image, the face that they send and the image and all of the things that accompany it. There’s - you get like a, I dunno, like a resonance, a vibration, I don’t know how to explain it. You feel the energy and it all, it feels unique. But I have not been given any names. I have always just referred to them as higher beings. And when I have reached out in attempts for conscious contact, it has been by setting the intention. It doesn’t matter what we call them because those are just human words that don’t mean anything. To them it’s our expression that means something but the word itself is immaterial, and so it’s more what is the intention when you are reaching out. Perhaps you could say something like, I am pure awareness, pure awareness am I. In pure awareness I reach out to higher beings who are reaching out to me. Something like that. Build a mantra around whatever intention it is that you could be trying to send out. And then be mindful of the response.

Roderick: Great answer. 15 mins tops left. Say something about the meditation center.

Yeah so Max and I are fortunate enough that we have a home that - it’s been very uniquely built using sacred geometry, so it was built with intention. Very interesting, a long story with that, that would take up a whole podcast, so - But anyway, and we have, it’s just he and I and we have a lot of beautiful space and I thought it was my own idea but the beings are saying, yes, do this meditation center, and so we are actually, we’re going to - we’re still going to live here, but we’re gonna transform this into a meditation center where people will come and we’ll go through our experiences, if we want to share, those sorts of things. We’ll have meditation practices, we have different areas around the property that will be available and we just want to create a place where people who are exploring conscious contact would like to come and meditate with us. So we would do it in a very family setting, we would all dine together, we would all - everybody would do chores and help to make things happen, and we would do it for brief, you know, probably start for maybe 3 or 4 days at a time, to begin with. So we’re hoping maybe next year we’ll have that up and running.

Roderick: You’re also working on a book, which I think you should. When will we see that?

Um well I - I hope that it will be out in October. I have to tell you I’m having a really tough time with it because now they have really upticked their communication with me and it’s kind of - I feel like I’ve been writing this book explaining the history of my contact experiences and now I have all these messages that are coming in and I just think wow, is this important? And I know that it is, I know, I just don’t even know how to wrap my head around it to put it down on paper. I’m receiving these updates and having these new people come in and introduced, how in the world - [laughs] how can I get this written down in a way that - you know. So it’s a slow process but I will just cautiously say October.

Q: Have you met the leader?

I have not met someone who is showing me that they are the leader. They have shown that the ancients, I don’t know how else to say it okay, because again human words are just - I don’t know, maybe there’s a human language out there that could encompass this, I don’t speak it - it’s the ancients is the only way that I know how to put it, they are here and they’re the oldest, is what they’re saying. It’s like these are the oldest. I don’t see them but I can feel like - I’ve only seen the ship so far. The other beings that I saw in the mountain apparently I remember three tall Whites who were - I could characterize two males and a female, all just about the same height, maybe somewhere between, over 6 feet tall, and had very light nearly luminescent skin, their hair was very light as well, extremely humanoid, like other than the color of their skin and hair and the fact that they’re just very tall - but they just look very human. And yeah their faces are very human. Then there was a small Grey, which is the one I first walked up to, and then there is the lavender being that was - is somewhere over 7 and a half feet tall, I would say, very tall with a bulbous kind of head that comes around like this, very bulbous, but there is a face that - it’s not human but I mean it has, there are the eyes. The face is shaped differently. I don’t know exactly how to explain it. And the body is tall and thin but it’s a larger body then the others. I mean it’s very tall so the frame is a little wider. There is another Grey there that’s taller. I’ve seen lots of small Greys. And I almost think that they might be children. There’s a being that is like nearly complete light, that is - if you could - it’s like a peachy yellowy bright light encapsulated within a humanoid frame. There’s no hair but very humanoid, very humanoid face but complete light. It’s almost like there’s a membrane, I don’t know how else to explain it. And they’re very bright and beautiful, incredibly beautiful. Um yeah.

R: How much better can you get, you did an awesome job.
Q: When do we need to prepare for transcending?

Right now. They’re telling us that now is the time. They’re not asking us to do this later. They’re saying hey, right now, we need you to elevate your consciousness, we need you to start recognizing that all of the things that we understand as life on earth is connected to the same consciousness and it’s all here, they’re all beings here for an experience in this place. They’re saying that we don’t have the right to deny any other being its right to have its experience. And that’s what we do when we take life here. As we know, we’re ending an experience. And it just makes us worse and worse every time we do it. They’re saying, no more, stop. Every - the things that we know as alive that they share a consciousness, we have no right - they’re showing that you have no right to take that consciousness’s experience away. That it’s an experience of the divine and we don’t have the right to end that. And they want us to honor that and understand that. And now. Now. Right now.

Q: What do they say about God, Jesus, other gods?

Well I feel like we kind of addressed that on here. What I have understood is that there has been a misinterpretation or misunderstanding of humanity with respect to the beings we’re having contact with and we’ve had contact with throughout human history. And there has been some sacred knowledge lost, things that we used to know that we forgot even as humans, and because that knowledge has been lost we have become even further, deeper into our human experience and binding ourselves to that human experience. They’re saying that a lot of our divine texts have a mix of divine inspiration messages in conscious contact and human - injecting human ideas and error, because we’re fallible y’know. We make mistakes. They’re saying that we’ve just come in contact with beings we just cannot understand and because of that - we’ve called them many many things, um but that they have been in conscious contact and contacting people for throughout human history, and that those, there have been those such as Christ and other mystics such as Buddha, such as Mohammed, they were all - they had divine contact and they did their best through their experience and their level of conscious awareness in communicating those very important lessons that they learned. And that’s what they’re showing.

Roderick: Where to contact you, Twitter?

They can also go to Reddit, to the Transcension Project and they can reach me at AnjaliOnGaia. Also on Reddit I’m SpaceBetweenUs, so you can reach out to me there.

Roderick: If anyone in comments wants to give Anjali a toast of love…​

May 13, 2021 Hypnoregression with Barbara Lamb

“The purpose of this session was to revisit Añjali's first-person contact with higher beings that occurred on January 21, 2018, in their Mojave Desert mountain base.”
[At the tunnel]
There’s netting covering the entrance. It has camo netting hanging over a structure he’s built. He lifts it up and there’s a hole in the mountain. It’s military desert camo netting - he’s hidden the entrance so nobody will find it. Wayne lifts it up. He’s saying something: we have to be careful, to watch my step, and there’s light. He has a light. He wants me to follow him, he’s walking in and I’m supposed to follow behind him. I am excited. It’s dark in the tunnel, it’s dark.

[Does it look like a tunnel?]
It is a tunnel. And I can stand up in it, and he can too. It’s tall. He’s done a good job.
 
[Did he have anything to do with the making of this tunnel?]
He did the tunnel, he did it. It’s his tunnel, he’s very proud and he’s talking about it.
 
[Do you have any idea why he dug that tunnel?]
Because he met the beings, he saw them on the mountain, and so he dug to get to them, he wanted to get to them.
 
[So he’d seen them on that mountain?]
Yes, it’s his, he owns a lot of it, it’s on his mountain.
 
[It was permissible for him to dig the tunnel - did he see them go into the mountain?]
He said he did, he said he saw them come in and out of the mountain in a craft. And then he said he saw it on the mountain and he met them. They told him they had a base in the mountain, [he’s talking about] excavating the mountain, the tunnel.
 
[He was okay with all of that?]
He was excited. He said he’s dying, he was excited, he wants them to heal him.
 
[Is that why he dug the tunnel, to see them again?]
It was to see them again, but I don’t know if it was so they would heal him. But he couldn’t - he was obsessed, he had to dig the tunnel.
 
[And he did - so you’re in it now, and you’re thinking that’s pretty good for one man. Did it seem he had dug that himself?]
Yes, he did it almost all himself he said, he has a company, he owns his own construction site company and equipment, and he builds and does foundation work and he excavates in the Mojave, he does rock excavation.
 
[He was the perfect person to be able to do that.]
He wanted to do it, and he did it. He hid it from the air, he doesn’t want it to be detectable. He’s paranoid that the government will find out and find the base.
 
[Was that mostly a sense of protecting the beings?]
Yes. Protecting the beings, he doesn’t want anyone to know, he doesn’t want the government to know. The military, he doesn’t trust them.
 
[That’s good of him to care about them.]
Yes.
 
[That’s why the entrance was covered.]
It’s hidden, you can’t find it.
 
[People hiking by wouldn’t see it?]
People don’t hike on his mountain. Not where he is. There’s - no, he doesn’t see hikers. People don’t come on his property. It’s private.
 
[Sounds like an amazingly ideal situation, that he met them and is very interested in them, and actually had the property and had the way to make the tunnel to get in to them. Before this day, had he been all the way through the tunnel?]
He said to me that he had been there and found their base. He found their base. And he told me that he had seen them there, he wants to show me. 
 
[Did you have the sense he was keeping this private?]
I don’t know. He’s talking about it openly. He’s telling me all about it, but nobody’s listening to us in the coffee shop. Everybody’s having their own conversations. But his friends came in and they talk about it too, and they come with us, and they’re behind us. They’re his friends. They know each other, they’ve been there before and they’ve said “oh cool yeah, let’s go, sure, sure man. Yah.” They wanna come.
 
[So they’d been in the tunnel before, met anybody?]
I don’t know. They’re not really talking about it. The wives are talking to each other.
There’s two couples and me.
 
[To you, is this completely new, beings in a mountain?]
Only just stories, nobody who knew anything. Only stories. So I didn’t know that they lived there.
 
[So all of this is a surprise?]
That they’re in the mountain, I didn’t know. 
 
[These others are familiar with it?]
Yes they’ve been there.
 
[What were they saying about the tunnel?]
They were beings, they said. They met aliens and saw aliens in there. But they’re talking about other stuff, they’ve been there so many times it’s not that big of a deal to them anymore. They’re talking about other stuff and I’m getting very frustrated about it.
 
[Did the beings talk to them?]
Yes, they talked to Wayne.
 
[Walking in the tunnel, would it be dark without the light?]
Yes. Very dark. Without the light you can’t see, it’s pitch black without lights.
 
[Is his light giving you enough to walk safely?]
Yes, but I’m very tired. I’m having a hard time getting through the tunnel, my legs are very tired and I’m afraid I’m not gonna make it.
 
[Have you felt tired before you came into the tunnel?]
Yes, I’m sick and I don’t walk very much and this is a lot of walking. I don’t want them to know. 
 
[Long walk to the tunnel?]
Yes. I’m tired when I get to the tunnel. 
 
[Any place to rest?]
No, there’s nowhere except the ground. I don’t wanna sit and rest, we’re going forward, we’re almost there. So I’m just trying to get there.
 
[Aside from feeling tired, does the air feel different?]
It’s very still, it’s a little cooler and it’s very quiet, very still… I can’t hear anything, just the sound we’re making.
 
[Short tunnel?]
It was too long for me but it isn’t too far. We’ve been walking for a few minutes now. He says we’re gonna come to a corner, and it will turn and then we’ll almost be there. He says he met them at the turn. You have to turn right. He told me [about the turn], I already knew, I’m not surprised.
 
[When you turn can you see anything?]
Yes. The beings are there. We turn right and they’re in front of us. There’s their base, it’s right there.
 
[No entrance?]
No it’s just right there. They’re right there. And they’re standing there looking at each other but they turned and looked at me. Oh my god. They’re looking at me. 
 
[Unusual moment for you! What are you feeling?]
I’m overjoyed. I can’t wait and I walk right up to them.
 
[Oooh, you apparently have a good feeling about them?]
Yes. This is my dream come true, I knew it. That’s all I keep thinking. I knew it!
 
[Do you have the feeling you somehow have known them?]
He’s talking to me and he’s telling me, he’s saying hi. He wanted to come and see me, he wanted to talk to me, he’s glad that I’m there. Yes.
 
[When he says hi, are you hearing that with your ears?]
It’s, no, it’s in my head, there’s no sound but the sound that we’re making, they’re quiet. They’re in my head talking, they’re not moving their mouths. It’s like a picture, like an image in my head and it has everything in it. When I see it, everything is there. And then it’s like he’s saying hello, and saying he wanted to talk to me, he’s glad I’m there.
 
[Does he seem to be familiar to you?]
I’m shocked because I feel so okay. Yes, I feel like I know him. I’m happy. It’s like I know all of them. It’s like I don’t know if I know all of them but I know this. I know them. I don’t know but I know that I’ve seen them before. And I know I’m safe with them. I’m safe. It’s okay, everything is good. They want me to come with them into a room. They want me to come with them. I have to go with them now. Yes. I want to go with them. I want to do whatever they say. I want to know what’s happening and I want to understand what’s going on. I’m listening and I feel like I have to know. So I want to go with them.
 
[Do you know what all that means?]
We’re gonna go and meet other people. We’re gonna meet others, other people. And they’re gonna work on me, they want to help me and talk to me. Yes, yes.
 
[Is there help you’re aware you need?]
There’s something wrong with my body and my brain. I’ve been really sick and I know that I don’t know why. I don’t know, we don’t know why but I was sick, I need help. I wasn’t supposed to be sick. 
 
[And have you been sick?]
Yes. They’re going to try to help me be better. 
 
[Does it seem like any of that is familiar, they’ve helped you some other time?]
It’s not always the same one. But yes, yes they know me. I know them. The purple, the big lavender being. Ohhhh, ohhh, wow. [long pause] There’s the being and it’s a mantis, looks like a mantis. Ahhh! Yes, like a mantis. It’s so beautiful! He’s saying hello and they’re happy to see me.
 
[Awww. Are you happy to see him?]
It’s not “him” but yes, I don’t know, yes. I’m very happy because I recognize him. And he’s so big. Oh my god. [lots of pauses] Things are moving fast. They have - it’s a big room and it’s like they want, I have to lay down now. 
 
[Is there something to lay down on?]
Yes, yes. It comes up out of the ground, it’s just one solid - and there’s so much light.
 
[Bed or table?]
Yes, yes, and they want me to lie down on it, they lower it and I lie down on it. 
 
[You feeling okay with doing that?]
Yes, I want to do whatever they say, I trust them. Yes. They’re working on me. They’re working on my energy, they want me to feel better because I don’t have any energy.
 
[Which part of you are they working on?]
Everything. There’s light bathing me. I have light all over me.
 
[Color?]
It’s white. It’s like, it’s almost like mist but it’s light. It’s light and it’s in the air but it’s so bright. 
 
[Like anything you’ve seen before?]
No. 
 
[Temperature of the light?]
I don’t feel anything. I don’t feel anything at all. I feel like I’m floating, like I’m weightless. They’re telling me to wake up.
 
[Lavender being is there, who else?]
There are others there. Yes. There are many beings in the room. They’re watching, they’re standing there. I can see them, I can see them all. Ohh.
 
[Familiar to you?]
It all seems familiar. I’m not afraid. This is okay. Something is going to happen to me. [gasp] They keep telling me to wake up now. Wake up now. 
 
[Are you?]
Yes I am. I have a job to do now and I have to wake up.
 
[What job?]
We’re moving into the next density and I have to tell people that it’s time to wake up. A lot of us aren’t gonna make it, they’re not gonna be with me. They’re telling me it’s okay to remember. I have to tell people, yes, it’s what I do. It’s what they tell me, they tell me it’s what I do, to remember now, that I have to help others. They’re reminding me and I have to tell others because it’s time.
 
[What are you supposed to tell others?]
That we are one, we are one. They’re saying we’re one, you have to tell everyone. They’re saying that we didn’t know, we can’t remember, that humans can’t remember. We have to help. I don’t feel well. Ohhhh. Mmm. They're reminding me of everyone. Ohh. Ohh. [grunts and moans and sighs] They’re saying that the time is now for me to wake up, now wake up because they need me now, they need everyone to listen but we’re not listening. 
 
I am one of them, I work with them. I work for them. They’re trying to wake me up. I have to tell people, I have to tell - they’re telling me that I have to tell people to remember that we are with them, that they are with us, that we share this place together. They’re here with us. They’ve always been with us.
 
[Ah, we just haven’t known it.]
They want to switch me. They take me out of my body, I’m not in my body. I’m not in my body, I’m floating.
 
[Can you see your body?]
It’s on the table. [long pause] They’re reminding me of my job to do. They’re telling me that it’s my job now.
 
[Where is your job?]
It’s here. Because it changed. There are four members of this group that I know, I know this group. Okay. Mmm. Ahh. I don’t think - many won’t be okay. I’m gonna be okay but the change, we have to prepare and it’s time. End [and?]. We’re moving. The Earth, all of us, are moving, the vibration of the Earth is changing, the vibration is increasing. And we have to prepare to meet that vibration. So that we can stay.
 
[Oh okay, stay on the Earth?]
So people can stay. Humanity has to realize, humanity has to understand, that if they want to continue they have to realize that they’re connected to the planet, with the vibration, and if they don’t elevate their vibration they can’t stay here, they won’t be able to be here.
 
[We have to change because Earth is changing?]
That’s what they’re saying. And they’re gonna help us now because humans have hurt so much, we have destroyed - oh my god. It’s our nuclear weapons, the weapons have shredded, it’s like rips, shreds. A lot of humanity will not reincarnate here, they will not be here. They won’t be able to vibrate here. I’m trying to understand.
 
[A lot of humanity won’t be able to continue to live here?]
That’s right. They won’t live here. They’ll go to another place, they go somewhere else. [sigh] They’re concerned about us because so many won’t listen. Ohh. Ohh. They’re tried so many times and now they have a job to do. They have to help the Earth, they have to help humans on Earth. They have to raise our consciousness, they’re saying that we have to raise our conscious evolution and we will be separated, and we have to prepare because it’s happening. They’re coming soon for this. They want us to know, they are our friends and they want to help, they only want to help us but they can’t allow us to be so ruinous. We don’t even understand. They’re saying that we all are connected to the one source of consciousness. They’re asking me to remember. Wake up. Ahh! Wake up. The lavender being is telling me to prepare because the other four are coming and I need to be ready because I have a job and then it will be time. Yes. 
 
[Will the other 4 have anything to do with the job that you need to do?]
I am their messenger, I tell their words to people. They’re going - yes - yes, this is the way that it’s done but I’m not the only one, they say I’m not the only one but it is - I will be here, I will be here and they will be here. This is, and I am to help, I am to help humanity to understand what’s to happen next. And I’m not afraid. They’re so beautiful. Oh! I - okay - yes, okay - I’m seeing ah! It’s really bright. They have mmmmmm they can be they can be with me. They’re saying, yes they’re saying that they will tell me and that I can talk to them and they will tell me, they will tell me when it’s time. I’m confused. They tell me to wake up again. They want me to be prepared when the other four come. When they get here they want me to be prepared. I have to be ready. They’re trying to get me ready. Touching me now. I have to be in this light and I have to heal. I’m resting in a light, it’s like a mist that’s all around but it’s light. I can only see their faces because it’s so bright.
 
[But they’re still there around you?]
Yes. A lot of them are just looking at me. 
 
[And the light is helping you?]
Yes. Yes. It’s like the light knows, it finds the energy - oh no, no, no, the light is energy. And it’s going to heal me. It will help heal me. Because the body is sick. But this isn’t - they’re telling me, they’re reminding me that this isn’t my body.
 
[That it’s not your body?]
Yes. But it’s not sick. But I’m not. They’re reminding me that I’m not sick but the body is. They’re saying the body is sick, the body is sick. They’re saying I am not sick, but the body is sick.
 
[But that’s not the real you.]
That’s it, they’re saying it’s not me. And they can’t - yes! They can’t fix it, I feel a little sick. 
 
[They can’t fix the body?]
No. But they can help. And he said that it will be fine that the body doesn’t work but it’s okay. 
 
[Is it okay because you are fine?]
It’s okay because I don’t need a good body to do my job. Yes. [pause] Yes, yes, I am fine even though the body isn’t, I have to do what they said to do, what I said to do. Like I said I would do this. I want to do this. This is my work, this is my work.
 
[Are you getting clarity about what your work is?]
To prepare, to help prepare humanity for contact and for movement into a higher density. And to help bring awareness to humanity so that it will elevate its consciousness and vibrate into the fourth density. Only those with elevated conscious awareness of their oneness with the source will transcend into the fourth density. And the others won’t be here anymore. But they’re fine. They’re saying it’s - they go to a third density planet, a third density place, I don’t understand. 
 
[The Earth is now a 3rd density place?]
We’re moving into the fourth density now. That’s what we’re doing. We’re ending that era of the third density and our time - humanity’s time in this cycle has come to an end. And we are not prepared for that end and I tell them to prepare. I’ve done this before. Ohhh. 
 
[What did you just realize?]
That I’m going to work with them. And that’s what I’m here to do. I come and tell people to prepare. Yes. Yes. They’re asking me to remember because I’m upset because I don’t understand what they’re saying. I don’t understand. They’re telling me that I don’t understand and that if I wake up again, they’re telling me that what I think is going on isn’t going on, and I need to wake up again. Wake up. It’s like I won’t stay awake. They keep telling me.
 
[They want you to be more awake to what’s going on in the world that’s keeping us from going into the fourth dimension?] 
They want me to wake up cuz I don’t - I keep forgetting what I’m supposed to do and they’re urgent because I’m, I have drugs in my system, medications and so I keep forgetting what they’re saying.
 
[Do they want you to get off the drugs?]
I can’t because they keep me healthy. But I’m having seizures, I’m having seizures. And it’s from the medicine. They want me to know, that’s why I’m not remembering right now and why they keep waking me up. I keep forgetting.
 
[Are they suggesting you get off the medications?]
No, they’re just telling me that’s what’s wrong. I have seizures. And that’s why I keep forgetting what they’re saying.
 
[What about the medications?] 
There’s one I take for my attention now and they don’t want me to take that anymore. They don’t want me to take it anymore. It gives me seizures, I’m having seizures from it. It’s lowering my threshold, this brain has seizures and it lowers the threshold. 
 
[The drug makes it more likely you’ll have seizures?]
Yes they’re saying that though it helps with the attention that it’s making me have seizures. And I have to stop taking it because it gives me amnesia from the seizures, like I keep forgetting. 
 
[If you get off that med, then you will not have the seizures?]
No, but it will help because it’s making them worse - it will be better. 
 
[To get off that medication?]
Yes. Yes.
 
[And it’ll help you to remember what you’re here to do?]
It will help me to remember when we communicate and what I’m supposed to do. Yes. It will help me to remember.
 
[Are you willing to make that change?]
If I can remember. Yes. Mmmm. 
 
[You’re confident they’ll help you do what you’re here to do?]
They’re having a hard time waking me up. But yes, I want to do what they want me to do. It’s my job. It’s my job. I’m eager to do it. Yes. 
 
[Would you like to know if you have any particular history with them besides what you know about?] 
Yes.
 
[You can just simply ask that in your mind.]
They’ve known me all of my life since before I was born. They met my mother. They know my mom. Yes. So they know me. I’ve been with them before, and I keep forgetting. I have an elevated consciousness. I am connected to them. 
 
[Have you been connected to them even before this lifetime?]
Yes, yes. I agreed to come here. It’s like a deployment.
 
[A deployment? Okay, let yourself see more about that]
It’s like a hard - it’s like it’s - they’re telling me, they’re showing me how difficult it is here, and how dense and heavy and low, and it’s like a hardship to be here, it’s like a hardship. Yeah, I had to want to come, I wanted to be here, this is what I wanted to do.
 
[Even though it would be difficult.]
Yes. Yes. I want to do this.
 
[Notice where you came from in order to be here.]
It’s a place that - [long pause] They keep showing me Orion, but I’m not from Orion. Or am I? It’s like I work for Orion. I don’t understand. [very long pause] It’s a place like Earth but it’s different. I can see it. I think it’s Orion! [very pause, sigh] I’ve been here before. 
 
[To Earth?]
Mmmm. [long pause] It’s far away but it’s easy to get there. It’s easy to get anywhere. I don’t think I’m inside the mountain anymore. There are places that are easier for them.
 
[Easier to get to, or easier to be at?]
Be at. Yes. Get to! Both. Both. 
 
[What is there about you and Orion - can you see more?]
The people who don’t reincarnate here, respawn here? The people who don’t, who can’t be in the fourth density, they go to Orion. Yes, they go to Orion. Because the Earth is changing, and if you’re not compatible with that frequency, that vibration then you have to go to a place that is compatible with your frequency, and the way that you vibrate and so that’s why it’s so crucial for people to remember that they are connected to the source, because if they don’t raise their vibration they will not be able to incarnate here. Yes.
 
[After the change comes?]
That’s right, yes. It’s not compatible for them. Third density people do not remember who they are. Yes. So they need to vibrate higher, and when they vibrate higher then they will be compatible with the vibration of this earth and then they can stay here. Yes. When that comes [ --- ] humanity consciousness, yes.
 
[When Earth moves to fourth density, 3rd density people can’t live here but 4th density people can incarnate here?] 
Yes.
 
[Will third density people, if they want to be here, be able to incarnate on Orion?]
Yes, on Orion because they’re not ready for fourth density.
 
[Part of your work is to let people know about this, and they have the choice to evolve or not?]
If we don’t - they’re trying to move us quicker into the fourth density as well, they want more vibration because we’re being so destructive and fourth density beings are less violent and third density humanity is destructive. So they want - they’re telling us how to raise our vibration and to change now, yes, because we’re being so destructive and it’s become dangerous. Humanity is dangerous.
 
[Barb gives a long speech, concludes people who don’t care about humanity will go to Orion.]
The fourth - they’re saying that [pause] they’re saying that the fourth density is about love and compassion, about recognizing that we are all fractured expressions of one consciousness and that that marks the fourth density, understanding that we do not understand the nature of our existence and we accept that we are all connected to the same source. And it alleviates the need for violence and resolution. And we have a greater understanding of our greater connection. [Long pause] I’m not in the shape they wanted me to be in. 
 
[Physically?]
Yes. They’re saying it’s okay but I can tell. It’s okay. 
 
[Will they continue to help you?]
All I have to do is talk to them. Yes and they will see me, will hear me. They’re saying that I can just reach out, that we are connected now, that we always were connected and now I know it.
 
[Makes a difference to know it.]
Yes and I have to get ready, prepare people for this fourth density and in the fourth density we will be - humanity’s understanding of reality will expand in the fourth density and we will see how connected - that we share this place with others already. As we’ve been moving into the fourth density we have had some overlap, it’s like overlap. Like a merging. Not everyone will make that - they will go and seek out their service to self in a different place, yes. Yes. 
 
[Do they give you any ways to accelerate that going into fourth density or preparing?]
It is a state of consciousness, it is a choice that we make to be open or closed. It is the difference between fear and compassion. To be in the fourth density you have to vibrate with the density and this is the time of choosing - we choose now, we choose now. We’re all choosing now. It is a choice. Yes. It is a conscious decision. To choose fear or compassion, fear in service to self, compassion in service to others, yes. 
 
[You can reach out to them, call for them, any time you wish to?] 
Yes, any time, yes. I am connected to them and I can reach out to them and they will respond to me. Yes it’s a connection, it’s live.
 
[Is there anything else you need to hearing from them at this time?] 
They will see me again. And I [must] get ready. They want - mm-hmm - when we meditate they can reach us, we can hear them better. They want us to meditate. That’s part of the thing that I have to say, that I have to tell people, is to meditate. I have to tell people to meditate and in that exploration of their self they can discover their connection to all life, all of what we call life, what humanity understands. We don’t understand much at all. They’re trying -
 
[Barb defends humanity]
It’s like a grain of sand on the beach. Yes. Uncountable, unmeasurable, infinite, experiential learning of consciousness. The fourth density is about consciousness. Yes. I don’t wanna go back [to] the tunnel. I don’t want to leave. I want to stay with them. I don’t want to leave them and go back. I wanna stay with them. 
 
[Can you go there again?]
They’ve come to me.
 
[They’ll come to you?]
Yes. I do know where they are, but I don’t need to go there anymore.
 
[You can still be connected even without going to the tunnel?]
Yes. They will see me again. 
 
[If you call out they will come?]
Yes, they do. Yes. Yes.
 
[So you’re not losing them in your life. In some ways you’ve had contact with them since way back early in your life?]
Yes, they say they’ve known me my whole life, before I was born. They knew my mother. Yes. They know my mother, they know my children. Yes. They’ve been with me before, I’ve seen them many times.
 
[Have you remembered seeing them?]
Just recently, just recently. I didn’t remember, I remembered but I didn’t remember. It was like a little scratch in my head, like an itch. Yes. Like an itch.
 
[Without really realizing what it was?]
Yes.
 
[Anything else you’d like to know?] 
They’re just telling me to just prepare, to continue to prepare. Continue. They want me to continue. Yes. That I have to tell people what they say. I am like a spokesperson. Yes. No, no, no. They’re saying mouthpiece again. They’re reminding me again because I said it wrong. I’m not a spokesperson, I’m not here to promote, I am here to tell, I am a mouthpiece, I say their words, I am to say what they tell me to say, yes. That’s what I said I would do.
 
[The correct word for that is mouthpiece?]
They said mouthpiece. Yes. I deliver messages, that’s what I do. My job is to deliver messages. They tell me what to say and my job is to tell it. They want me to just say it, they don’t want me to tell it, they want me to say it. Yes. I am a spokesperson, no, no [laughs at the mistake]. I am a mouthpiece. Yes. 
 
[Are you willing to be the mouthpiece?]
Yes. Yes I am willing to be the mouthpiece. Yes, that’s my job. I have to tell people to remember. I have to tell them what they’ve told me to say. I’m ready to do it but I’m confused, I don’t understand. 
 
[Will you remain open to any guidance they give you so you can be their mouthpiece?]
Yes, I am here to do what they say, to say what they say. That is what I do, yes. 
 
[You are able, and you will be bringing back all of this with you to consciously remember as you go about your life. It’s all part of you now, they are connected with you. You’re here with a much bigger mission than perhaps you had been aware of.]
Yes. 
 
[A wonderful benefit is you’ve been very involved in the world, in the leadership, in the political aspects of the world, you know how many people are running the world, and you notice you know about what that density is, having a worked in it for a number of years, and now you have a really different perspective. Now your work is going to be very different than what it was. ]
Yes
 
[And the hopeful thing is that you know how the world works, the way it is set up now, and with those who are in charge, so you know more than the average human, and because of that, you can bring a higher knowing that the beings want you to bring, and you want to bring, because you know how to communicate with that community of people who are really running the show. Does that make sense?]
Yes
 
[Barb continues pep talk using her own buzzwords]
They’re saying that they reach out to everyone. Yes. That humanity doesn’t listen very well. It’s time to listen now. 
 
[Those with an agenda for humanity, that’s a big challenge in getting those people to hear this message, that they have a choice which density they want to be a part of.]
Yes
 
[You are an excellent example of someone who was involved in that aspect of the world and pulled out of it and can see it from a very different perspective, yet having been so involved in part of it, you know about it more than most, you will be able to figure out ways to communicate with those people. Some may want to come on board, others won’t]
Those who are in service to self will incarnate [o]n a third density planet and will be separated from fourth density humanity so that conscious awareness can continue to grow as we explore the service to others. Yes. This is the path. Yes. They want us to wake up now, all of us to wake up. It is time to wake up, yes. 
 
[And they can see, and we can see that there’s nothing more important that you could possibly be doing]
Yes, they want me to give up all of the things and do only this.
 
[It appears to be a time in your life when you can do that, and are doing that]
Yes. It’s like the table is set. 
 
[And they are there and will always be there to help you and keep you as alright as they possible can.]
Yes.
 
[Certainly well enough to function as you’re needed to function and do your calling.]
Yes. And they will - they’re saying that others can reach to them as well, all of us are connected to them. They’re connected to all of us and we’re connected to the source, and they’re connected to the source, and all life is source. Yes, and so all of us are connected and anyone can have that connection with them if we choose. It’s a choice that we make. Yes. 
 
[And we’re all connected with them and source.]
Yes
 
[And there just doesn’t need to be any difference, any separation.]
The illusion is separation. Yes. The illusion is that we’re separated so that we can grow and learn and have experiential learning. Grow a new species, a new race, humanity. A new technology - a biotechnology, yes. To elevate the conscious awareness, yes, and that’s why there must be separation. There’s a critical time as we move into fourth density, yes.
 
[Separation of the wheat from the chaff?]
Yes.
 
[Those who want to evolve and those who like it just the way it is]
Yes. They’re saying that they’ve taught humanity separating wheat from chaff. Yes, it is theirs, they taught us wheat, they gave us wheat, taught us to grow wheat, yes and how to separate the good from the bad, and how to know the difference. And now is the time to separate the wheat from the chaff and know the difference between the good and the bad. Yes, now is the time. It is time. Yes. [groans]
 
[Come back now to this time and place.]
Thank you for helping me so much. I think we’re gonna have more work to do, you and me.

May 18, 2021 Extraterrestrial Evidence livestream with Roderick Martin: Anjali shares regression session with Barbara Lamb - with Roderick Martin

(Incomplete - some final listener questions are not included)
Roderick: “You’ve got a face for TV.” How did you prepare?

I meditated. We met long-distance, over Zoom, it worked phenomenally. I was skeptical, a little nervous that I was not able to be hypnotized, and I thought how upset everyone would be. If that happens then we’ll try again, we’re not gonna give up if I have difficulty we’ll try another session…... But in the end the results were that I woke up and felt like I’d just been in a very deep sleep and it was quite a surprise to me, the amount of time that had gone by and some of the things we talked about, because unfortunately I don’t remember everything from our conversation. I would say - I don’t even know if I have, oh I remember 75%, I would love to be able to say that. I remember all of the hypnosis, all of the conversation now, just yesterday I finished watching it and listening to all of the audio and I was - it was a really emotional experience for me. There were many times that I had to stop it and just sit in awe of what I just heard. So I’ve experienced it from the outside looking in as well and I don’t even - I didn’t really do anything more than meditate and ask for the beings that I’ve been in contact with to please guide me through that and to be there, to be present with me and to help me discover what it was that I needed to discover, so that I could move forward.

Roderick: What brought us to this point? Anjali has shared her experiences with ETs in a mountain. She shared their message, and had Barbara Lamb do a regression. Barbara tends to ask everyone what are you looking for? What did you want to gain?

All I asked her to do was take me back to the tunnel, and take me to the beings. [Meeting them in person for the first time.]

Roderick: What did you find out?

What was really important to me, because there have been so many questions about the tunnel, from many people - it was important to me that we start outside the tunnel at the moment that Wayne is lifting up the netting, pulling it back for the first time…... I got to experience all of that and walked through the tunnel. She asked some question about what I was seeing, if it was - what the air was like, and I remembered it being still, very quiet, the only sound was us, and that it was cool and very dark, but that they had sufficient lighting. It was amazing because I got to experience that moment again, of rounding the corner and seeing them. I got to experience seeing the lavender being in person for the first time as well, at least that I could remember. It was a marvellous revelation, I would love to just say it right now because it’s one of the most remarkable things that I feel like I experienced while I was there - regardless of all of the words that were said - that one of the moments that my little human brain just wanted to - I knew I was in the presence of something remarkable, and it was when we went to the second room and the door opened and the lavender being was standing there.

Roderick: Description of lavender being?

It’s just - it’s hard to - I wish I could show you, I wish I could just - words are not enough but I will do my best. Probably around 8 feet tall, very lavender-y like lilac, like lilacs look, very similar to that, maybe a little pinkish, a little bit more pink tone, a warmer tone in there. But what was the marvel was that I saw the face very clearly and my lavender being is a mantis - and I never even knew - now listen to this, Roderick, I have heard of people talking about mantis beings okay, I did - I am ashamed to say - that for everything that I have experienced, that I wasn’t sure that mantises were real. I know, right? Because you would think that I would be more open to that, but the funny thing is, is I was talking to my daughter about this over the weekend and she said, “mom do you remember when I told you that I thought the lavender being was mantis, and you were upset with me?” So she was in conscious contact with the being as well, at the same time she was having a session with me, way back when. And I was upset with her. I just don’t even know what to say. This being is just like I said, has a bulbous [head] and then the eyes that come around, the little man- [mandible/jaw] - It’s a mantis. I don’t know what to tell you! [emotional] … It’s a mantis face! Go look at a mantis because that’s what it is. And the, oh my god, the love, the compassion, the warmth, the openness that is radiating from this being is absolutely remarkable. I am convinced that perhaps what people say about mantis are true, that they are just the most divine being that I’ve ever seen.

Roderick: Like spirit guides?

Well except that it was an 8 foot tall mantis. We’re not talking about a spirit. This was a physical creature standing in front of me. A spirit guide - I mean, maybe, I don’t know a lot about what a spirit guide is and does or any of those things. But that was for me personally one of the greater revelations, was learning that mantis beings are real and that this particular mantis was like a doctor, was working on me. At one point they had separated me from my body. I was on a table, they separated me from my body, my consciousness was up off the table and in a misty light. If you can imagine mist that is light, okay, that’s literally what it was light - misty light - the air was just full of it, there was no place that it was coming from. It was bathing over my consciousness or my energetic being I think is probably even more of - they were working on energy at the time. So consciously I was there where they working on my energy, I was not in the body. In fact I could see that my body was below me on the table and that I was above it in this light being healed. The mantis and some of the others were there, there were lots of people that were in the room with me, and several of them were standing around the table including the mantis and some Whites and a couple of I believe we would call them Greys.

Roderick: Who was in charge?

In that room I felt that that was the mantis’s room. They were bringing me there to meet with the mantis so they could do this work, cuz that’s what we did. They brought me in, they laid me down, and we started. It was almost right away. And then all the conversation that we had was when I was from the body, out of the body, doing the energetic healing in the white light, that’s where the vast majority of the conversation took place. I’m getting chills just thinking about it.

Roderick: Did regression change how you feel about the beings and their reason for connecting with you and the human race?

I didn’t want to leave them again, so I would say that if there was a change, it absolutely reinforced my connection to them, my undulated love for them, and felt very loved by them, very cared for, very safe, warm, like the safest place that I’ve ever been. So I would say that the change is - it is in my commitment to do what they have shown me, and asked me to convey to people, and they do it in the most gentle and purest fashion by just giving me everything at once that I need to understand what it is they’re saying and why. They went to great effort - I was having trouble understanding them and I said so, several times. Not understanding their words, but understanding everything I was being shown. It was - some of it was - I was having a difficult time working through it, and I’m still kind of working through it. I am still working through it, for sure.

Roderick: Describe the surroundings.

The room is very large and round, a round room. All the light of the room is ambient. I walk in and I am enamored by the lavender being and I don’t know how long I stood there just gazing up and listening but it was one of the most remarkable moments I’ve ever experienced in memory. From there, they led me over to a table that - the ground was like a gunmetal grey okay, it was flat.. As I turned a table raised up out of it okay. They asked me to lie down on the table and I did. There were a lot of people around me and I didn’t take any time looking around. That’s the biggest disappointment that I can give you, I’m very sorry. I was enamored with the people that were around me, that I wasn’t really looking a lot at my environment. That’s the honest sad truth.

Nick: Have you been approached by anyone from a 3 letter agency or government since you went public with your story?

Not yet. I have friends who work in several agencies, co workers, previous co workers and friends, and I have let them know personally about my experience and that I have come forward. But no one official yet has come to me to talk to me about this. I don’t understand it, I really don’t.

Q: Did the beings tell you where they came from?

Believe it or not, I didn’t ask. They led most of the conversation. I was able to ask a couple of questions while I was under - that was not one of the questions that was suggested to me. And I didn’t take it upon myself. What I can say is that what I understand from in the past and from the many faces that I have seen, I believe they are from many places and not from one specific place. There is a definitive connection with - between Orion and Earth at this time, and it seems to be that we are - we have - Earth and a planet in - I see the Orion belt, I keep seeing the belt. In there, okay, there is a 3rd density planet, a planet that vibrates at the same frequency that Earth has vibrated at, okay. It’s coming into its third density frequency and vibration. And our Earth is moving from a fourth - no, a third density vibration into a fourth density vibration where the frequency of the Earth is changing. So what is going to be compatible with the Earth is going to change. So our individual vibrations have to be compatible with where we are, and this what they explained to me very thoroughly, that those who - we all need - humanity needs to be raising its vibration because at this time, as the Earth is changing, we as a race are not vibrating at the right frequency to be able to be compatible with living here, okay. And so people who are not compatible with the fourth density vibration will, when they reincarnate - and I know I’m dropping a big one on everybody here, but let’s be adults about it okay - when we reincarnate, those who are not vibrating at the right frequency will reincarnate in the Orion belt as I believe - it’s going to be in Orion, I believe it’s in the belt, but I don’t know exactly. All of my life I’ve been fascinated with that belt, and that’s what they showed me the other day was the belt, but I don’t see directly into it, I’m sorry.

Roderick: No that’s okay.
Q: Is there new information regarding use of language?

New information? I would say that it is simply a reinforcement of what’s already been said. And when we’re talking about raising our conscious awareness and reaching out in conscious contact, not only with higher beings but also with ourselves and trying to develop this kind of conscious evolution, it’s - I’m sorry my kitty came up and I have to show you how beautiful she is first of all, this is my Lily. She gets skin cancer and she’s had to have her ears removed. She’s my Max’s baby. She is a healthy and happy girl. Okay so back to the question regarding their message. I would say that - so back to conscious awareness - we’re not just trying to telepathically communicate with one another. Conscious communication, conscious connection, that is a direct connection of consciousness to consciousness. It is a full immersive experience. It’s not just trying to send words or an idea. It’s richer than that. So we’re not to just be focusing on our trade craft of how do I start reading minds. We’re really trying to nurture the consciousness that animates this human biotechnology. The biotechnology itself must evolve, and the being within it, the consciousness in it that is a split, a fracture of the source of all consciousness, we - I lost my place, I’m so sorry, um, I did, I--

Q: Reincarnating on Orion’s belt - previously you mentioned people that don’t want to have that frequency would be taken off Earth? If we don’t raise our frequency we’ll be sent off to Orion’s belt to continue our journey?

Yes. That’s my understanding 100%. Okay, so let’s break this down real slowly here. My understanding is that the planet in the Orion’s belt is not as old as the Earth, okay, and so it is newer and it’s third density vibration. The third density is all about deciding what path you are going to choose, because when the fourth density - The only thing that really vibrates there that can lead into the fifth density, okay, is love and compassion. And those are the primary characteristics of the vibration of the fourth density. That is so that we can move into a fifth, sixth, seventh, and onward to beautiful things. So the Earth now is moving into that fourth density, and because of that, people who choose fear over love and compassion, who choose fear, resentment, anger, retribution, violence, that’s their density behavior and we’re putting it over there. [throws out arm] This Earth is about to be fourth density and humanity has to get on board with that. So that means if you wanna hold on to - if you want to let fear and anger and resentment and retribution and violence lead your path, then you may find yourself in Orion. Now this is the great news, that from what I understood was that that’s not a bad thing because no one, no being is going to be comfortable in a place where they do not - where their frequency is out of sync with the frequency around them. It becomes unbearable, you cannot live in that. So Earth will become unbearable for people who aren’t moving into the fourth density and those people will be happier, and it will be a seamless transition. It will be a seamless transition. But this human biotechnology will be moving into the fourth density so that it can continue to evolve as its own race, okay, and the consciousnesses that inhabit it will continue to evolve with it.

Q: What does it mean to raise vibration? 

All of energy vibrates, energy is moving, it has a frequency and you can actually listen to the sounds of the planets. Maybe that’s not the vibration that we’re hearing but I don’t know if you guys have ever heard those from NASA, all of the sounds of the planets? Have you guys heard - anyone? The celestial sounds of the planets? It’s amazing, the music of just our solar system, it’s phenomenal and I highly encourage all of you to look that up. While I’m telling you all of these details, please understand that at the same time, I am also working through them myself. It - the more that we - the more that we are open to understanding that we do not understand the nature of our own existence. We have been living under a veil of forgetfulness that does not allow us to remember. One of the things that they are trying to do so that we can move into the fourth density out of this time of choosing, is to lift that veil so that we can choose whether or not we will embrace being connected to all living things or if we want to reject that and say no, it’s about me. This is about me, I’m so important, my thoughts are important, my feelings are important, my needs, my desires, my wants, my me me me me me, ow you stepped on my toe, you know, I mean everything is all about me me me. We can choose that, and that’s a different path, or we can choose to move into the fourth density. But that behavior and that kind of thinking lowers our energetic vibration. So it’s about the energy of the consciousness that is inhabiting these bodies.

Q: What is the 3rd and 4th density?

Yeah um - good question. So this is another one of those areas where I’m still learning, I’m still remembering. I understand that - they showed me many stages of the evolution of consciousness and the evolution of our living planet, okay. They want us to understand that all living things have consciousness. They’re in a stage of conscious evolution. And all of these fractured pieces of consciousness are from one consciousness that has split and does not know itself anymore, and is exploring its own learning, okay. So now we’re in like a guardianship, it’s like we have beings who are here to nurture this planet and this consciousness, the development of all of humanity and this split consciousness. They’re in guardianship over this. So we have various stages of awareness and of the energetic vibration of the Earth and how aware the consciousness of life is on that planet. As you move - this is the best I can give you because I am still trying to figure out - what’s first and second density? Okay. So they’re showing like an evolution of consciousness but it’s not quite - some of the charts that I have seen that places a hierarchy of plant and animal development and then human development, I’ve seen, and then I’ve seen like extraterrestrial development, and then you know pure spirit and all of these - and really what I wanna say is, Oh listen, we don’t know, we cannot understand the full nature of our existence and that is super key to being open and - to your energetic vibration being able to raise - to meet the vibration in the change of the Earth. So as - I understand that as densities move up they do different things. Third density it seems to be all about a choice that we have to make, about do we want to be in service to ourselves and believe that we are the most important, the physical, this body here, and my idea of who I am as a person, or do we want to be in service to others which is a form of service to self because all is one, we are all from one single consciousness. So it’s really about a choice of opening, being open and ready or being closed and not ready.

Q: Did you have sense of their individualism (re. clothing, jewelry, self-expression, etc.) or were they identical to one another?

Well, I can tell you that the Whites, there were three Tall Whites that I remember being very close to, meaning proximity. They were probably about 6-and-a-half-feet tall, maybe 7 or pushing it, very tall, very thin. They were wearing - this is what I was thinking - they were wearing this, like black, form-fitting jumpsuit and all three of them were wearing it. The mantis, um, I can't see past here [indicates chest] on the mantis and I'm just seeing, I see a lot of - I think that they're wearing-- [Q: Where is "here"?] I'm not sure what I-- [Q: I was just asking if there were any gestures, details like that?] So they were wearing form-fitting bodysuits, but down like around - I got a really good look at them when I was coming in from the tunnel into the base, and this is really about the only time I was really taking in how they were dressed, because they were all standing there right in front of me and so the three with the bodysuits - it was like a black - I don't know what kind of fabric it was, it wasn't like a leather or anything shiny. By the time that it got down like around the ankles it started to flare out a little bit more like a pant leg, which I thought was really interesting. And then up around - they had belts on at the waist and their were - it was like a faux - not suspender but like a faux-tank that was part of the jumpsuit that goes over their shoulders, like all connected. They had bluish-black on their arms and they had on black boots, but I didn't really examine them very well, but their feet were in boots. Very very humanoid. The Grey that met me at the entrance, he looked like he wasn't wearing clothes, but he was, and it's just a bodysuit, very tight-fitting, and I didn't see any kind of symbols or jewelry or anything on the Grey's, and I don't remember on the mantis, I'm sorry, everything from here [indicates chest] I just see from chest up on the mantis.

Q: Regarding your terminology: densities, frequencies, vibrations - are these terms that you're heard from the beings themselves, or is this your way of articulating what's been said based on other things you've read?

Great, great question. This is their words. Now, when I first was explaining all of my contact in the mountain to my daughter and my best friend - cuz they were the only two that I trusted not to think I was insane - I told them that they kept talking about - I said, they kept saying third dimension, but it's not dimension, it's another "d" word, and I don't know what it is. I said, I can't remember, it's driving me crazy. I'd say, it's like dimension, but it's different, it's not a dimension, it's another "d" word, third d, fourth d, and I couldn't figure it out. I've been chewing on it, chewing on it, chewing on it, and they came right out with it during the hypnoregression, we uncovered that one hundred percent. The word they were using was not dimension, they were using density. And that was not a word that I was familiar with when I saw them in 2018. Does that help?

Q: Yeah, that's really helpful because that's identical to the Ra material - I don't know if you're familiar with that?

I am more familiar with it now than I was a few weeks ago, and I don't even know what to say. I hear it, too. [sighs] I hear it, too.
I do have, just so that his will be helpful I think, we have a wonderful gentleman who is going to transcribe the hypnoregression so that we'll have just a text file of all the audio, and I think that that will be helpful--

Q: What was our impression of the Greys?

My impression with everyone was that they're extremely compassionate, extremely concerned about the status of humanity and the status of the Earth itself and the destruction that we have brought upon not only our Earth as we understand it as humans, but other places that are also here, that we share with other beings. That we have really caused some terrible injury-- [laughs at cat] Oh it's Lily behind me for those of you who are wondering. So what I - my opinion of all of them is that they are extremely concerned and compassionate. The ones that were the most aloof were the Tall Whites. They were kind of more aloof and I take that maybe they spent too much time around us humans, so.

​Q: The regression was your first time you had contact? Are you still having contact after that or did you only have contact that first time, that you remember? 

Funny thing is that it was the first time that I was aware of, until the hypnosis, and that I was certain that I had had contact with them. They have said - they informed me that they have been in contact with me since before I was born to my mother. They told me that I chose to be here, that I chose to come to Earth and to be placed in a human body, and to spread the message of conscious evolution of humanity and to prepare us for contact with higher beings and for sharing our planet with other lifeforms as we move into this fourth density. They said that this is do, that I work with them and that I have a really close relationship with the Four because I am a mouthpiece for the things that they want to tell us as we're moving into this change that is coming. And I don't know, does that answer your question at all? And I have seen them since, I mean they've told me that they've known me and I now have a memory of meeting them when I was a child, that I didn't have, so that has resurfaced. And I have a few other instances that I am fairly certain that I saw them. And I saw them afterwards in the Mojave desert as well - near a place called Giant Rock that has a very amazing history, actually.

Q [Rashad]: What kind of encounters do you have up to now, are they more conscious-related right now - telepathic? Are they energetic?

Right okay, very good question. I have conscious contact with them and it's very regular and they have also said that they have come to my house and they told me not too long ago that they were going to come, and we - Max and I had an experience at the house that they have just said "Yes," y'know, that "we have been there." And they have also said - now this is really interesting - they said that there are lots of beings who come through our home, like they're coming to see, like they're rubber-necking, like they're gawking, coming to see the lady whose talking and aware of them. They wanna know, y'know. And so I'm having - I have other beings that will come through and I have other experiences during the day - visual and auditory disturbances at our home. So they're very much - we are like a light to moths right now and it's really really interesting.

Q [Rashad]: I ask you very specific questions because we a share basically the exact same story. You have a piece that I don't have in terms of getting regressed. [Met mantis at age 5, had agreement with them before he was born. Asks for her email.]

Absolutely. If you will just leave me a comment and I promise I will reach out to you. You can also - I know the best way, on Twitter I'm @AnjaliOnGaia - please reach out to me there, send me a direct message and I will check those this evening when we're done. Rashad, I really want us to connect because they showed me a network of people who are here to do the same thing that I am doing.

Q [Rashad]: I was told that a few months ago, the exact same thing.

I'm so excited, Rashad, I cannot wait to connect with you. [After Roderick talks] I'm sitting here, all I can think about is Rashad. My night is shot [laughs].

Roderick: I'll give him your cell phone number, is that good?

Wonderful, yes.

​Roderick: [Rashad is with Extraparanormal Society (Clubhouse), Anjali is doing interview with them Thursday]
​Q [Cannapam]: I too have been abducted... I'm O blood... you spoke as if they were working in a collaboration or Federation, our assignment down here - is that for us to get together and speak more, speak louder, gather, our tribe so to say... What's coming to me are questionable people, they need help. Do we have an assignment?

I don't really know how to answer that question. I know - there is definitely collaboration going on between these higher beings. In fact when I asked - I saw multiple beings who were in the room, okay, and I have had conscious contact with multiple beings, and they show me their faces. So when I ask, "Will you be with me tonight?" I will get an image that'll show me 20, 30 faces. They're all just different races of people, of beings. So there's definitely collaboration. They are definitely here for a purpose. They have tasked - they have been very clear with me that I am to share the things that they say, that I'm not here to promote them but that I am here to speak their words and to help to prepare humans for contact with them. This is a very delicate situation, that the more that humanity reaches out, seeking openness, seeking understanding of our own existence, seeking to understand our own consciousness, and seeking to connect with a higher source of consciousness, the more that we do this, then the more prepared that humanity is for contact with them. And so that's the crutch [sic] of it, guys. If you want contact then we need to start meditating, elevating our conscious awareness, being open, open-hearted, open mind, and seeking, asking for their help, reaching out to them, seeking that contact and yeah, I guess that's my understanding, is that I need to tell people how to - that it's coming, that they're coming, that this is going to happen, be very frank about what they're looking for from us. They do have some proscriptions that they would like to issue, and so there will be some of that, and they did show me a network of people that they want me to be connected with, okay, they showed me that network and I am looking for those people. So if Cannapam, if you feel that you may be part of this then I encourage you to please reach out to me on Twitter @AnjaliOnGaia and send me a direct message and we can begin to--

Q [Cannapam]: I have photographic evidence.

Sure, okay. Of--?

Q [Cannapam]: And y'know I have logged time losses and warping time, so yes. All of that above. But I know we're being pulled together but I wasn't clear - maybe there's a clear mission that we should be hurrying to do. Calm the crowds by information?

No, I think that the more that we are open to contact with higher beings, who are only here to help us, and we show less fear and less divisiveness, and the more that we are reaching out compassionately to them, I believe that that is really the crutch [sic] of what we need to be doing here. While we're working on elevating our own consciousness, all of the other things that are a problem with humanity, they start to work themselves out, see. The more that we understand who we are, and we recognize that we are the spark of the consciousness of the one source where all consciousness that we experience comes from, once we recognize that then all those old things from third density, all that third density behaviour begins to fall away. And so it's extremely important that we go through the motions, even if were not exactly sure exactly if we're even doing it right just having the open heart, the open mind, the open spirit, is really what they're looking for.

Q [Roderick]: Powerful, very powerful. 
Q [Fay]: I've been really enamored with your story. I have just recently started having contact... I was recently regressed and met my cosmic family... [saw a lavender portal] Have you experienced anything like that?

I have experienced a floating sphere that was about this big [indicates approx 6" diameter] that came into the room and it was purplish and it came and it hovered over my bed and I felt like it was looking at me, but it was always only light. It just felt like it was looking at me, and then it was literally just like poof! and it was gone. But it came into the room, and did this thing, came over the bed, just was hovering over where I was laying, then it went to the middle of the bed then it just [clicks fingers] disappeared.

Q [Fay]: That is not crazy but it's crazy, that's exactly what happened to me, it appeared first at my job on top of this building, something watching me... Happened again, came into the room and woke me... When I was regressed it was revealed to me that yes, that was them, so I don't know what the them, what they look like... They did give me a mission, my purpose of being here - they told me I am here to raise consciousness through love and I had the gift of bringing people together.

Oh, that's beautiful. Me too. I also tried to reach out and touch mine [the orb] and when I did, it actually moved back away from my touch. As I moved toward it, it moved back away further away from me on the bed. It was really something. So it interacted, it was at least reactive, if not interactive before it disappeared. It was really something. I would like to connect with you, Fay.

​Q [Nimmy]: [extremely long question paraphrased] I'm an anthropologist by degree. My question is related to religion. You spoke about energy, density. I've been obsessed with energy and balance. I feel like my mission is to use that energy to move energy while I'm here, to affect energy and others through my actions, words, deeds, thoughts. I wonder how that concept of balance and moving energy is related to this concept of density? Also you talked about us going through process of remembering our true nature - I think our concept of religion is a piece of that, we misunderstand what religion is. I think it's connected to this phenomenon. Could you weigh in on that?

Believe it or not, the easier of the two to tackle is the concept of religion piece. What the beings have said is that we have a tendency to humanize their inspiration, okay. So essentially our divine texts that we have are the result of contact with higher beings. Because we're fallible, we have a tendency to corrupt the systems that we create, and they have specifically said that our dogma is creating division, the illusion of division, the illusion of separation, and is leading to violence and destruction on Earth. So they are against religious dogma. That does not mean that they are against religion, but that the dogma that we have created here, specifically what humanity has done, is very problematic for our ability to raise our energetic vibration. Because our dogma tells us, "Well no, I'm right, you're wrong." Y'know? "And not only are you wrong, but I'll willing to fight you for it. And I'm willing to kill you for it." And so unfortunately, that's third density life. We have these situations that we have to circumvent, because every situation that we find ourselves [in] is part of the growing and it's part of the choice - we make choices all the time and they're asking us to always chose openness and love and compassion, and to recognize that we are all one consciousness born from the same creation at the same moment when that consciousness split to experience itself in an multitude of ways. And that's really the crux of it, that's the foundation of what they're trying to communicate with us. And then of course we have our stories, our human stories that we pass down of those experiences. So really the only thing they've said is what I've said about dogma and just the history of humanity with systems in general. Now regarding energy and density, I'm still trying to understand what density means. They have told me many times that it's very heavy here, and I don't think that that's just meaning physically. I think that energetically, this is a very difficult place to be. I think most of us, just by virtue of us all being here, we've probably most of us have experienced walking into a room or building or something and we just get a really bad feeling, there's just real negativity. Or we've worked for an organization where morale is so low that when you walk into the building you can actually feel it, y'know, and it is like a heaviness that weighs on us energetically. So I think density has something to do with that, with the heaviness of the illusion and then our reaction to that illusion. I don't know if that helps at all.

​Q [Nimmy]: It does, that's good, thank you.

Roderick: [final words] Anjali, I love you, I really do.

Thank you.

R: We have a long jou​rney ahead... I'm coming to visit your place, it's just exciting.

Aug 17, 2021 Press conference and Alternative stream

(The two livestreams each have different parts of the press conference cut out or inaudible.)
Notes in [italics] provided by ​u/GrapefruitFizzies - thank you! Transcribed sections by me are in non-itals.
Introduction (0:00)
[The press conference opens with Añjali sitting in a wheelchair, a body guard-type man in aviators and a mask standing behind her, and Alan Steinfeld standing to her right. The Lincoln Memorial is visible in the background. Alan welcomes everyone, and introduces Añjali as someone who has had direct experience with higher beings, and that these beings have communicated with her and directed her to be here today. He says she is going to share from her experience and maybe bring some spontaneous messages through. His mic cuts out, but it seems like he also introduces the person standing behind her as Max (her partner).]

Personal Information and "Resume" (0:37)
[Añjali opens by stating that Anjali is a pseudonym, given to her by the higher beings. Her legal name is Angelia Lynn Schultz, née Angelia Johnston, nickname Angie. She was born on February 1, 1972 in Fort Smith, Arkansas while on the road to Jacksonville, Florida, where she grew up. She graduated from high school in 1990, enlisted in the U.S. Air Force in 1992. She was married and later divorced, and briefly took the name Angie Belter. In 2003, she graduated from Black Hills State University in South Dakota. She pursued a Master's degree in Sociology at the South Dakota State University. During her studies, she was recruited by the Defense Intelligence Agency to become an intelligence officer in D.C. She was trained in information operations and information warfare in human factors analysis. She claims that there were no domestic operations targeted at citizens, and that her job was to influence state and non-state leaders.]

I was struck ill when I was working at the Pentagon at the end of 2005. I spent quite a bit of time in the hospital and attempted to resign because after 6 months I was not well enough to return to the agency. They did not accept my resignation - I want to be very clear. From that moment I became a defense intelligence contractor with BAE Systems on a contract for the Defense Intelligence Agency and the work that I did was commuting and telecommuting doing some of our earliest open source intelligence, directed again outside the borders of the United States in the best interest of the American people and in the best interest of peace because the more information that our state leaders have on one another and understand one another personally, the more equipped they are to go into more diplomatic talks rather than talks of war. So I wanna be very clear that the information options that we were involved in, in this nation, was about peace-making and not war-making. Which is why I'm here today - to continue the peace-making.

[In 2015, she was recruited by a contractor on behalf of the U.S. Marine Corps, to work in the tactical operations group.]

I performed my duties a well as one could on the cusp of a cutting-edge technology. Every day our information environment is changing right before our eyes. And as it's changing, one of things we're seeing is a coalescence of lack of information clarity and grassroots movements demanding more understanding, more transparency everywhere in the world.

In 2016, I resigned my position after sitting in a meeting and having difficulty cognitively following the pace of the discussion. I took my work very seriously, and any signs whatsoever of a memory disruption or an illness that was affecting me at that moment, I knew that the only choice that I had was to submit a resignation effective immediately, and that is what I did. It was shortly after that that I ended up in the hospital in southern California where I remained for a couple of months, quite ill. The entire story is online, I'm sure there's going to be some question that I have no problem whatsoever answering any of those, but for time's sake I'm not going to get into the details of it, they are available.

Before I get into the next part that you're all really here waiting for, also in full disclosure, in 2013 I published a novel, it's called "The Nameless". And I am telling you today not to buy it, alright? Because I don't want your money, and what I'm going to do is I'm going to put an e-publication on every profile on social media that I have that you can go and download the book for free. This is not an attempt to make money, to sell anything, to build a brand, or to do anything except everything that I have said that I am doing. So with that said, I think that puts that to rest."

Añjali's Introduction to the Higher Beings
Alright, so moving on: On January 21st, 2018, it was a Sunday, I was sitting in a coffee shop in southern California. I met two amazing people whom I have always referred to as Wayne and Trisha. When I first came forward, and when I was first giving interviews in March, April, May, I had not had any contact with them for some time. I knew that Wayne was living, and that was about all I knew. And then at the exact perfect timing, we reconnected. They're happy to know that this is happening today, and I have their absolute 100% full support in this effort in what we are doing here. They have asked that I keep their name and their address absolutely confidential, and this will be honored unequivocally.

Wayne approached me and after some time we had gotten into a very in-depth conversation about consciousness, of all things. He had lymphoma, I had - who knew? Didn't even know. I had recovered from Guillain-Barre and yet I wasn't recovered. We knew something was lurking within my own DNA without knowing what it was. And he pointed it out immediately - he said it was this: it was here, it was all of the toxicity in the environments I had been working in, literally the energy that had been created around me that had made me ill. And after what I had just gone through, I had to stop and give him my attention. He was saying something very different than anyone else had said to me yet, and I needed to hear it. After some time he and his wife Trisha invited me to their home because he had excavated a tunnel into the side of the mountain that is his property after he had met what he called aliens. He said he had seen them, seen their craft up in the sky above his mountain many nights, and he had become obsessed with finding out more. And he said that he had gone on top of his mountain and that they had been there. And that they told him that they were inside, that they had a base inside the mountain. And from that moment on he had one singular mission, and that was to get inside that mountain. Is there anyone here who doesn't understand that? Who couldn't relate to that kind of sudden obsession? He said that he had successfully found them, that he would bring them to me - that he would bring me to them if I would like. Of course I would like.

I know this is a difficult thing for all of you to accept: "Why would she go to a secret location with people that she just met?" Well why would she have a press conference on the lower promenade of the Lincoln Memorial and tell you the truth about it? And where is the press? Why didn't they come? I went because I had absolutely nothing to lose, nothing, just like you. It was either true or it wasn't, and the only way I was going to know is if I went. And so in an olive branch of trust they provided me with their names, their address and their phone number. I verified - I texted them, made sure their phones - we were connected, it was real. So I sent it off to a couple of friends including my daughter, let her know exactly where I was going, and with whom and why. She was concerned.

So at about 3 o'clock in the afternoon on Sunday, January 21st, 2018, I entered a tunnel that had been excavated by a man who yes, knows how to do it, and laughs wholeheartedly at the idea that it can't be done. It's quite amusing. I entered the tunnel with four people - Wayne and Trisha and another couple whom they're no longer in contact with. After a few minutes of walking into this nicely excavated tunnel - I just have to say that - there was a light ahead of us and we began walking a little bit quicker. And when we rounded the corner, there were two different races of beings that were standing there: there was a Grey - um, I do not believe that he is organic in the way that we understand. Also not a drone in the way that we understand. But a body that holds a consciousness that interacts. There were also several other beings that were what we typically now, I understand, call in this community - the phenomena community - Tall Whites. They were all well over 6, approaching probably 6-and-a-half maybe a little bit taller, 7, very tall. They would stand out in this crowd, we would all notice. They have fine white hair, warm, not cool-colored, a warmish white, but their skin - they're radiant. They have - it's nearly alabaster, but I don't mean to imply cold or hard, just beautiful and stunning. It makes you want to run your hand across it.

After saying hello to me, and at the time nearly feigning surprise, "Oh, hello, Anjali," they said. "We've been waiting to talk to you." They wanted me to accompany them deeper into their base. And I want to make something very clear: that from where this excavated tunnel is, which is mostly rock, okay, people who live in the Mojave desert, they understand what I’m talking about and they know, it’s pretty stable. Where it ended, and where their space began, was seamless. There was nothing there, it just suddenly was, okay. This wasn’t like there was a physical edge that I could delineate. They took me into a room where I met several of the most amazing beings that are here. One was in a body approaching 8 foot tall, taller than the door, it was like a sliding hatch door. I looked up into the room on the other side of the room to meet the face of the being that had been giving me visits. And I thought at the time that this being was probably about 4 feet all. Such is the nature of this phenomena [sic]. This being in physical form has chosen an 8-foot-tall form with lavender skin that looks like a very beautiful preying mantis, a mantis.

I wish nothing more than for the outcome of all of this to be for you to see the beauty in the faces that I saw that day. There are beings of light that literally when you look at them it is like there is just a membrane that encapsulates a humanoid form. You can’t see through it, it’s not transparent, it’s light! It’s there. It’s some of the highest consciousnesses that exist, some of the purest love. Thank you for your patience. [drinks]
​
There was a table that came up out of the floor and I laid [sic] on it and they removed my consciousness from this body, and it was beneath me. I had no feeling. And there was a mist that I can only describe as light. Everyone knows what a misty morning looks like. Imagine if that mist, every little dot of water was a little fragment of light, and that’s what I was experiencing. It was absolutely pure astonishing love.

The entire time they’re saying, “Wake up! Wake up! Remember what you’re supposed to be doing. Remember who you are. Remember why you’re here. And prepare to transcend.” They explained to me about something that took me a very long time to remember the word – I wasn’t even sure until I underwent hypnoregression. I had to be certain. They explained something about the evolutionary growth of consciousness through learning. And they used a word called density that I didn’t understand that. They were trying to wake me up. They were saying to me, “The veil is very heavy. Wake up! Remember what you agreed to do.” After some time, they escorted me back to the opening of the tunnel, where the tunnel met their base, and Wayne stepped forward into the space that I was in, and immediately [clap] we were standing in his home. I grabbed my head and screamed some expletives like I can never repeat on air. But you can imagine. And their friends and his wife, they just said, “Oh, you’re back, that’s what’s going on.” We were back under this archway that divides one side of his house from the other, and he had told me that when he was done visiting them, that they would always put him back there. And this was before we went into the tunnel, and I thought “Well this is either gonna be the greatest day of my life or I’m going to be killed but, you know, at least they’ll know who did it.” I was shooting for greatest day. Everything about them spoke to their authenticity. And indeed he was not kidding. In the very blink of an eye, we were moved from inside of that mountain back under that archway in his home.
 
It’s been a long and complicated journey for me since then. I was not always willing to do this. Even after they said, “But you agreed.” They’ve visited me several times to say, “But you agreed. Hurry.” So, once again, I agreed.
Before I talk about the message that they would like to speak to you today, I would like to talk about the formation of a team that will return to this tunnel, and with me and the owners of this property, this team will enter the base of these higher beings with every kind of known equipment that a scientist could possibly get his hands on, those are the scientists I'm looking for. You've got equipment to measure, let me know. We will be releasing some of the names of our team in the coming week or two. We have a couple of things that need to be worked out for their own sakes. You can imagine that even the people who want to be on this team are afraid to be on this team. And they're not afraid of the ones that are in the mountain. They're afraid of their human brothers and sisters walking around. They're afraid that you're gonna cost them their career if they say "Yes, I'll go, and I'll gather every piece of evidence I can, and I'll tell you everything I know." They're afraid that you're going to deride them, that they will be fired, let go, ostracized, accused of being in a cult. Everyone is so afraid, but they're mostly afraid of each other. Who else is there to be afraid of? We have an astronaut who has committed and a lead on another. We have a well-known documentarian who will accompany us. We will take a chief investigative reporter who is well-known. We will take academics, physicists, astronomers. Some have already been invited and they're waiting to see the fallout of this, to see if they can afford to do it, or if they have to walk away from potentially the greatest moment of their lives. I urge you to be kind and patient, and to be supportive of absolutely anyone across the face of this earth who wants to join this team and is approved. There will be so much raw data that is produced and given to you, collected and given to you. I have pretty much given you everything but my blood type, which is O-negative, there it is, y’know. Transparency and full disclosure and honesty is the only thing that I want here and I am looking for those people who can help us all deliver that. Because the beings need us to be ready for contact.

​"They want you to understand that you do not need to be afraid. That this cycle of learning will – this cycle of learning is coming to an end because humanity’s consciousness is evolving. The way that consciousness forms and creates matter, which is just energy manifest, something that they want to help us learn to do as we evolve. All consciousness begins and ends in the same place, in what they call the source of all light. In the first and second densities, consciousness is learning about its environment. It’s learning that it exists in a whole, as part of one. When the consciousness matures for third density learning, it is placed in an environment that is conducive to a sensory learning experience. They say that this, the third density, is the density of choice. It is where we learn to remember who we are, where the seed of our consciousness has originated, and which path we want to go down to explore that. They say that this is what we chose, each and every one of us, as a unique expression of the one source of creation, that each is an expression of that creation, which is also the creator. That we move through consciousness learning and coalesce at each stage. We bring what we have learned from each density into the next and we begin to further coalesce as we return back to our purest form, which is light. These beings can travel on light because they are the light. They have been with us from the beginning. They have been where we are. Everything goes through the same cycle of consciousness development and recognition of itself. They have been where we are and they have been guardians of our process. When every form of consciousness coalesces back into the pure light, it remembers fully and begins to learn how to create its own creation, and therefore it watches. It watches other expressions of creation learning because they only want to understand how to make their own. This is seventh density learning. Once there’s full recognition of oneself consciously, it immediately – you split your own consciousness, your consciousness becomes many, and that informs the next creation, and that is eighth density creation. That is the creator, and immediately, in order to learn, the creator forgets oneself and becomes first density again. And each time that this happens, consciousness spreads throughout everything, infinitely, for infinite learning, and infinite gathering of understanding and wisdom. So yes, they have been here for a very long time. This cycle of third density learning has been called many things. It has been called reincarnation. It's been called creation and apocalypse. It's simply a beginning and an end of a cycle, okay? So that the next cycle can begin.

So what we have now, here on Earth, is we have two things that are occurring simultaneously: we have natural cyclical changes of this Earth as it moves into its own density and becomes a fourth density environment. It will no longer be compatible for third density experience, which is what they say these human biotechnology bodies give us here. We have been through this cycle long enough, and it's time for the next stage.

I know there are going to be so many questions and I really look forward to doing my best to answer them all. Sorry, I saw some ducks and it was such a nice relief. I think that it may be time for me to take just a brief moment, take a drink of water, then I will be happy to answer any questions that you have to the best of my ability. We will upload this everywhere that we can. We ask you to do the same. This is neither a joke nor a brand attempt nor any attempt to make any type of money. I'm not going to ask anyone to help fund this expedition. We will find the money, there are people who have it and they want this to happen. I'm not concerned. I just want you to understand how wholeheartedly I cannot wait to take this team back into this mountain. Okay, thank you very much for your time, much gratitude, much gratitude.

Question and Answer Period (48:50)
Q: Do you want to be identified by just your alias or do you want your whole name in there?
I will go by Anjali but you can identify me however you like.

Q: [To Max] Are you being identified, sir?
Max: No.

Q: [from Alan Steinfeld] You said you went into the tunnel when?
January 21st, 2018, it was a Sunday.

Q: [from Alan] And their message to us is what, through you?
That we need to prepare for contact, that is the most direct message that I can give you without having to keep you here all day. This is a physical disclosure and it is a consciousness disclosure. And what I mean by that is that these beings do not speak language, they do not use words like we do. Their mouths do not move and they make sound and begin to speak to us. Everything they do is what's called conscious communication- I want to differentiate that from the misunderstanding that this is telepathy. This is not telepathy. I don't know what that is, I don't do that. I think that might be what I'm trying to talk about without any idea of who you're talking to, not setting intentions, not being super clear. This conscious communication is so clear, it comes with everything - it's like a download, okay, we can all understand that, like an image - you get an image in your mind and it comes encrypted with all kinds of information that immediately just downloads into your brain. It includes intention so you know, you know. And it includes emotion. I have experienced nothing but love, compassion, kindness, patience, sometimes humor. Very very kind and gentle beings. It is a fuller, richer, more accurate, more highly evolved form of communicating. And guess what, folks? It works with all of the higher beings. It works with all of them. So they want us to prepare for contact, and what we're doing today is soft disclosure. I am really putting my neck out here. I'm putting everything in my entire life on the line for this. And I'm ready, I'm ready to do it. I know I may not look ready sitting here today. But if they have to carry me through that tunnel, we're going.

Q: How did the beings tell Wayne about the base?
How did Wayne hear about the base? Well he just said that they told him. I wasn't there, so I'm really not sure, but he said that they were on top of this mountain and that he approached them and they had a conversation, and they told him that they have lived there for a long time and that there was a base inside. That was about the extent of that, that I was informed of. I didn't have a lot more question after that except how quickly can we get to the tunnel?

Q: When will this contact be, and why now?
Why now is because we are coming, like I said, to the end of two cycles, is what we have here. We have a naturally occurring Earth cycle that we are faced with, and this is undeniable, okay. Not everything that we are experiencing is a man-made experience from terrible carbons and the way that we have treated our environment. Let me by very very clear that we have treated it incredibly terribly and this has been an issue among these higher beings, because they are living here as well. And so - I think that's all they wanted to say, yes, I'm sorry.

Q: Was your first contact experience in person at this base, or did it happen prior to going to the base?
So do you mean my first contact in more recent years? Is that what you mean? Like me wake-up contact? Yes, that actually occurred while I was in the hospital.

Q: Was that terrifying?
No, I was very at peace. I was curious but I was very at peace and at that moment I felt myself feeling okay if I slipped away and just went to sleep. So I was hovering in that in-between place a little bit.

Q: I'd be terrified.
No, I was not.

Q: About the base, did you get the feeling it was a ship inside the mountain, or was it an actual base where a ship was parked?
That is a wonderful question. I look forward to finding out. I'm uncertain about that. My understanding at this point is that it's a base, but it's a very provocative question that I never have asked. I look forward to finding out. 

Q: You said they didn't mean us any harm, they said don't be scared. Are they speaking for them inside this mountain or all beings that are on Earth, and also some people experience this phenomenon and feel a loss of control. How do you know that this love you felt isn't something they're making you feel?
The beings that I am in contact with refer to themselves as the Council. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to address that. They are guardians over this world because they were asked to be and they are fulfilling their duty of guarding this, allowing us our free will to explore and to learn without remembering who we are so that we can, return, recognize ourselves and experience the full breadth of consciousness again and again and again. The problem is that this is a polarity situation where, boy, we have really really forgotten what were doing here, guys, and we're destroying ourselves and our world, and we're trying to go out beyond our own borders into space as if we are ready to be a spacefaring species lovingly contacting other worlds. Right now were just colonizers again. We have forgotten that we created this, and that this is our very own experiment for learning. We have forgotten that we are all from the same consciousness. The veil is so thick and so heavy we believe that we are singular individuals and that when we do this thing that we call die, that is the end or perhaps we just go to a heaven or nirvana. Well heaven and nirvana is return to the pure source, it's pure light, pure consciousness and you are always on the path to that, always. There is only a path back to light because it is a circular path that we can see-saw one way... [video cuts out]

Q: [Video quality deteriorates: inaudible question]
You know that is a really good question. Let me tell you what happened to me one day. This happened just last year. A very special kitty that is very wild, literally, was in the bathroom with me, had jumped up on the counter, and behind me his vision, like, caught and there was a terrible stench in my house, absolutely terrible, and he got 3 or 4 levels big, he just puffed and began hissing wildly into the air, growling, and I whizzed around and there was nothing there, and he was laser-focused. He jumped down and was prowling through the room. After a couple of minutes it disappeared, he calmed down, and that was over. So I don’t know exactly what you’re referring to--
 
Q: [inaudible]
Very interesting, we should talk offline.

Q: What are your personal and spiritual philosophies, and do you have any recommendations?
I would recommend that you pray or you meditate [—-] with an open, kind heart, ask for acceptance of our oneness and our connection to one another. Seek to better understand your own existence. Seek to elevate your conscious connection to all other expressions of life and the creator here. And then, whatever your spiritual philosophy, you've already got it. You got it.

Q: When you're being interviewed on podcasts and answering questions, is it you or are you speaking via the higher beings? Are they answering?
Yes, they are answering today. Honestly we have a [—-] communication and I look forward to all of you developing one.
 
Q: [Alan] Is there anything special that they wanna tell us today, right now, that we can do?
You must recognize that we are all connected and that [you] need to frame every decision and every intention that you set in your life. Consciousness is much more complicated than we think it is. They want us to grow. They want as many of us as possible to be ready for the next step and to be ready to accept them without fear, without threat of violence, but hand-in-hand.

Q: When is that next step?
The next step is getting the team together and getting into that mountain. So, as soon as possible. I mean I work on it nonstop. This [presser] will help facilitate some of the contact that I need. As well some of the others who have already committed who are going out and being ambassadors for this team and helping to find the next team member.

Q: You talked about four races coming. Are they coming? Are they here?
Oh yes, they are. The four - I need to tell you that at the time I really regret the way that it came across. This journey has been enveloping right before my own eyes and every day my own knowledge and understanding of this process increases. The four are of no threat to humanity, they have a job. It is the end of a cycle of birth and rebirth, and is also the end of an Earth cycle, and they're here to help facilitate our growth into the next thing that comes.

​Q: Thank you for your courage and bravery in coming out here today, disclosing your name, where you went to school etc so that you can be verified, that you are who you say you are, as well as your credentials, where you've worked. I think some skeptics may say you have the tools and the knowledge to get people to follow you - is it possible on the flip side that the higher beings would see you as a good conduit or messenger for them because of your skillset?
Absolutely. I've always had a natural propensity towards this. When I was in high school I was an Air Force junior ROTC, at what was then Nathan Bedford Forrest Senior High School. And that was under [----]. And I did public relations. I think I was 14 years old when I began that, so I spent 4 years in high school focusing on doing public relations for that unit. So it's always been a natural thing for me. I don't feel terribly embarrassed or reverent or irreverent, I just feel, y'know, I'm just another person and I feel very comfortable in my skin and with all of you, and so I think that perhaps just that level of comfort may definitely contribute to why this is so important that I am here, rather than someone else. Experiencers are afraid and like I'd said earlier they don't wanna be ridiculed, they don't wanna lose their job, and we need someone who is willing to put themselves on the line, and that is me, that is why I am here, because all I want is to be able to tell you all the truth. One more question because I am melting.

Q: George Knapp expressed his willingness to join the expedition. Can you tell us if he's going to be joining you?
I will tell you that he and I are in personal communication.
Note: There was a brief Twitter exchange between Anjali and Knapp as follows:
​Knapp disputes the claim that they are in personal communication: "I saw her initial tweet saying she planned to meet aliens in the Mojave. I tweeted to ask if we could tag along... That's my only communication with her." [Sep 2]

​Alan: Thank you, Anjali. If people want to follow up with you, if they want a website, what would they do?
I think the best place to go is Twitter. I'm available there and it's the most friendly platform right now, so I'm AnjaliOnGaia - that is not Gaia as in Gaia TV, that is Gaia as in Earth. I am not affiliated with any production company or any media company, I am just me. So, thank you.

Alan: We look forward to hearing from you again, and thank you.
Thank you all for your time, I'm very grateful.

Aug 25, 2021 Fade to Black with Jimmy Church

[Interview starts at 36:30]

J: With your career in intelligence, was there anything to do with ETs or UFOs or UAPs?

Absolutely not, not in any way, shape or form, no.

J: Growing up, did you have any ET experiences or contact, or see anything strange in the sky?

Yes, absolutely, some of which I have actually recalled more detail of it now I went under hypnoregression with Barbara Lamb. But there was always something from - I always thought, I was between 3 and 4, my mom said that I was 4 years old, a sighting that we had, that then I went under hypnosis with Barbara after I had begun to have memories of experiences from childhood. And I was questioning the validity of them, of course. So, after the hypnoregression I had a more complete memory, a complete recall - I should say more complete because I do not believe that I have a complete recall of it, but a more complete recall. All of that predates the age of puberty and actually it's - we could get into a sighting that I can actually for the first time, thanks to someone that I met on Twitter who has become a dear friend of mine, has been mining sightings in the town where I grew up in Jacksonville, Florida, and has discovered a sighting when I was 4 years old that is exactly as I had described, like the ship that I described, the craft, is exactly what is described in this sighting that someone else made, had nothing to do with me, and it was over Jacksonville, Florida, where I was in contact with these beings and taken into their craft.

J: [asks her to move closer to mic] Tell everybody through [our] soundcheck that I did not freak out once, did I.

Jimmy was a pillar of silence and self-control and it was me who was gesticulating: I don't know what to do!

J: Barbara Lamb is wonderful, by the way. She is a great person, beautiful inside and out beyond words. I've a lot of respect for Barbara. When you go through a regression, some of those memories may be there, and you don't know what they are, could be a dream or whatever, but once they start to come out then they're there, right? So when you go back at the age of 4, was your mom having contact experiences as well?

​Well, she did have contact experience. My earliest memory of contact, I was 4 years old, and the story as I have told it for years and years and years, because it was the only thing I had remembered, is that I ran up into the living room at night and jumped up on the couch, and I was looking out the front window of the living room, there was some shrubs that were there. My mother and our housemates and all of my neighbors were standing in our driveway looking up, particularly looking up over the house and they were all just standing there. And I, I wasn't afraid, I knew what was going on. It's just - that's all that I remembered. Until I came out with my story of my experience and exposed myself to a great deal of introspection through the lens of everyone else that I was interacting with online. Each time that I would get a very skeptical question I would have to stop and reconsider, even if I'd answered it four or five times, reconsider, stop and make sure that you're on the right path here, that you're saying the right words with the confidence that I would need to - I don't know if you understand what I'm trying to say here. I was concerned that if I only regurgitated the same answer over and over, copy and comments, here and there, that it would not seem like I was doing any kind of sincere effort to consider the skepticism and the questions that were being asked - the how do you know this, and the why is that? Each time to stop and reconsider, and reconsider why I felt like I had the answer to that question. So there was a lot of introspection that was going on and I disconnected for a while and did so much meditation every day that the conscious contact began to pick up in my life and I had a flood-in of memory, of being very young, around the age of 3 or 4, and I was in the craft, and how this occurred - do you want me to explain?

J: Yes, stay in your thoughts, stay right there.

Okay, so I was doing a meditation, and when I meditate I always place myself on a beach. I like the sound of the waves coming in and out, so that becomes like the rhythm of my breath and like the pulse that I'm looking for internally. So I like to stand on a beach, and if anything bothers me or I have intruding thoughts that continue to interrupt my meditation, if it's something I need from the grocery list or a conversation or a comment, whatever it is, I have a black box that I put on the beach and I will turn around and put whatever it is in the box and close the lid and put my back to it and go back to looking at the ocean and go back into the meditation. So of course this is a mental process of really going into another place. This one particular day I was having a very difficult time staying focused. I wondered, what would happen if I put myself in the box instead of the thing that was bothering me? How could that turn out? And so I turned around, I'm standing on the beach mind you, I turned around, I opened the box, the bottom of it is just a flat rectangular box, I got into the box and I closed the lid, and I stayed there in that box meditating until I didn't hear the waves anymore, to try to completely put myself inside that box. And once I stopped hearing the waves I got out of the box, or I opened the box, and it was very dark, and I stepped out of it and I did exactly what I would do on the beach, which is I turned back to it to close it, and what I saw was earth. There was no bottom to the box. And so I realized that I had put myself somewhere, and I closed the box and I turned around and there were children standing there. And the entire memory of - I shouldn't say the entire because I don't know - but a flood of memory, of being in that craft when it came and was over our house, came back to me, and that I why I went to Barbara Lamb cuz I just needed to know - there were so many other things that had been nagging me over the years that I needed to know.

​J: When I meditate I go to a taco truck. 

I swear that's what Max and I ate most of the time across the country, every time we found a taco truck...

J: It's God's gift to this planet Earth taco trucks. I wanna jump forward from the age of 4 as you go through your professional career, any interest in UFOs [privately]?

I will admit to searching once in JWICS to see, which is a classified database of intel.

J: What's your search word?

I did just about everything you could think of, if it was even remotely related to it. It was outside of my need to know, and there weren't any keywords that matched up my need to know and I just didn't get any search results. I felt particularly vulnerable at that moment, it kinda dawned on me [that wasn't] smart.

J: Did any flags show up in the system? Did you get a visit from somebody?

Not that I am aware of, nobody ever approached me about it. No, I didn't - I'm sure that most analysts do that. I can't imagine - it's very hard, when you're curious, not to want to try at least. I'm sure they're used to it, is all I'm trying to say.

J: I know Lue Elizondo really well, spoke to him 15 times today about other stuff, we talked about coffee, jeeps, everything but UFOs. Did you ever bump into him [at the Pentagon]?

I don't remember ever bumping into Lue. When he first came forward, you can imagine that I was incredibly curious. He didn't look familiar to me. His name wasn't familiar to me, nor was his department. I was actually incredibly skeptical of Lue. I immediately - my fear alarm wanted to go to oh, this is disinformation, this is an information operations directive at the American people, this is a violation of executive orders, I mean I was like - my mind was going to all these places because I was just very afraid, I think. 

J: Your forearm - let me see. [tattoo]

It says with our thoughts we make the world. It's an original script actually, I designed that.

J: That is totally freakin' bad-ass. 

I also have one here but it will be very difficult for you to see - you know what, I'll just send you a picture of it, it's a white tattoo.

J: Let's get to the meat of the matter... I only have the basic details here. [He's read her Twitter, press conference and they were together at the Making Contact Conference over the weekend.] I'm here for details. The start of this, going back to a coffee shop or over breakfast?

It was at a coffee shop.

J: Which is cool. Let's start there.

I think it was around 10, 10:30 in the morning on a Sunday.

J: 10 o'clock in the morning, Sunday, you walk into a coffee shop expecting coffee and breakfast, right?

What is on my mind is coffee and good conversation with a friencold of mine who was with me.

J: What happened next?

​[Clears throat] Okay, well I was there with a friend of mine named Nick and we were having coffee, we were near the coast in southern California, and we had been - oh it was probably around noon at that point, we'd been sitting there for approximately 2 hours. He needed to get back to his fiancee. We were just kind of rolling up our conversation And another couple had happened to come in and sat with us, or sat near us. We were sitting in an area that had a couple of couches and a couple of recliners, you know. Actually I don't know where you're located, Jimmy, but I hope it's in California and that you go to great coffee shops where people do this because it's amazing, the conversation you can have if you're just willing to meet people where they are, y'know. 

J: Yes, I'm in Los Angeles, on the far side of LA county.

Okay, so the couple came in and they sat near us and were very friendly, they made it clear right away that they wanted to have a conversation with us, and I was okay with that because I knew my friend Nick was leaving and I wasn't quite ready to leave, y'know, I thought it'd be nice to hang out at the coffee shop for a little while more. So we struck up a conversation and at some point my friend Nick had to head back, and so he went - I walked him out and I came back and sat down and they had moved like down closer to the end of the couch and they - he just asked after a long conversation about our health - both of us had a conversation about our health with each other, and that's when he had divulged that he was suffering from cancer, and was trying everything that he could to move himself down in stages of a disease that people typically don't live with. And he was meditating and pursuing other ways of healing himself that we never got into at that point. So he had gone down in his stage of cancer after a lot of treatment hadn't been working. So he really wanted to talk to me about my health, he was very concerned for me. So at some point he said, y'know, "What do you think of aliens?" And I said, "Well, what do I think about aliens? I frickin' love 'em!" And he said, "Well, would you like to meet some?" And I was fresh off of my first conscious conscious contact where I actually was having communication with a being that I wasn’t able to understand - I was aware that this communication was happening, and I was concerned. They were telling me that they were a higher being, or that they weren't human, that they were here to help humanity, and giving advice.

J: Is this Wayne?

Yes, this is Wayne. And Wayne at this point - he's only been with us for about an hour. Nick and I had been there for a couple of hours when they came in, and he was on his way out, but the conversation was so interesting that we all just got caught up in it for a while and he ended up overstaying, actually. So it was probably about an hour into the conversation that Nick left and it was just myself and Wayne and Trisha, and that's when he just came right out with this question.

​J: When was this?

This was January 21st, 2018, and that was a Sunday.

J: So, 3-and-a-half years ago. Was there anything about Wayne that would put you back or made you feel strange?

[long pause] I just had to stop - I'm trying to give you the consideration that you deserve. It's a good question, no one has asked me that before. Well, y'know, I was very comfortable with him. If anything I found him compelling, interesting. His wife Trisha was - she was just quieter. She would engage but he was definitely the one leaning forward with everything.

J: How old is Wayne?

Oh, um, I don't know. I think we might be around the same age. He’s probably in his mid-40s to early 50s. Honestly, I don't know.

J: I'm just trying to create the theater of the mind. What was your response [to Wayne bringing up aliens]?

Yes, of course, I wanted details - I said, "Well of course I do but what are you talking about here?" And so he went into an experience where he said that he had been seeing - well, first of all, he owns some property out in Mojave Desert that includes one of the mountain ranges and so he owns a mountain. He said - this is how he put it, the reason I'm explaining this, is he put it this way: He said, "I was seeing a lot of UFOs over my mountain." And I said, "Well what d'you mean, your mountain?" And he said, "Well, I own this mountain so I've been watching." So he said that one night he went up to the top because he thought that he had seen a craft, a light. So he went up there and he said that he encountered what he said were aliens, and that they told him that they had a base inside of his mountain. And that was the extent of the information that he gave me on it. He said he didn't remember very much but that he became obsessed with digging into the mountain. And so Wayne owns a construction company, he excavates rocks and foundations in the Mojave. So he has not only the professional expertise but also access to equipment that he needed to be able to accomplish this. And so he said that he dug a hole, or a tunnel, into the mountain and that he had been going - what he said was that he made like a right-hand turn. He decided to make a right-hand turn instead of continuing to burrow straight in like he had been doing, the direction that he was, and so when he did that he said that he burrowed into their base and he met the beings, and that he could take me to meet them. That is - he told me.

J: At this point, does “crazy town” enter your thought pattern? That's a pretty incredible story and you're a smart person with a very professional career behind you and you hear something like this - right?

Yes, yes, yes, okay, so that’s a complex question. So let me answer that complexly. I had had three conscious contact experiences in just the few weeks before meeting Wayne and Trisha, okay. So I was in a vulnerable state. Like, I had seen this being, like I could see it, I could describe it, where it was standing when it appeared to me, everything. So this man who I was really connecting with him - telling me this very compelling story on the back of my own experience, I thought this could possibly actually be real and the only way you’re ever going to know is if you go. I didn't have any idea what I could be getting into. I only knew what I was hoping I was getting into. And so, because I'm not stupid, I asked them in advance for their cell phone numbers, their full names, they showed me their IDs, I got the address from them, I dropped a pin to my daughter, I sent all of that information, I pinged their cell phones to make sure they really gave me - you know, I was just doing everything I could and told them I’ve now sent this out to a few friends, so if they don’t hear from me by tomorrow morning, which is kind of like the standard in the desert, I mean that - right? You understand? Jimmy is nodding his head, saying yes I understand. Like, you don't send people out right away, because sometimes people get carried away in conversation and you could easily end up talking all night. And you don't want them calling the police on you. So, but I told her, if you have not heard from me, then this is where I am, and I've also sent the information to other friends. 

J: Are you saying these plans were made at that moment and it’s go time? You're gonna go from a coffee shop to an ET base?

That's right. That's what he's telling me. That's exactly what - they're both saying that to me. And I feel like I have nothing to lose. This is like, this could be the absolute best moment of my life or an absolutely horrific moment. And the big test for me was - give me all of your personal information right now, and let me send it to my daughter and my friends, plus let me drop a pin at your house - you know what I'm saying? And they were all in, so these people are either y'know, they're professionals or they're telling me the truth. And I was willing to risk the opposite, so. Who wouldn't?

J: I would probably go, too. Now I'm a guy. There's a different element to it, but yeah I would probably go. But you're a woman with two people that you just met. Obviously you have your background and probably not very much shakes you, I'm assuming that.

I am pretty hard to rattle.

J: So you guys just get up and leave?

Essentially. But before then, while we were having, while they were exchanging their information with me, I noticed another couple that came in and were standing in our area where we were standing and Trisha got up off the couch and started talking to them. Turns out that they were friends of Wayne and Trisha's, and immediately Wayne just says, just right out loud, "Yeah, I’m gonna take her to the aliens." And he was like, "Alright, cool." And he says. "You guys wanna come along?" He's like, "Yeah sure." I mean, I'm telling you, it was so normalized that I thought what? This was like the first time that day that I thought what the heck is going on? Which actually became something I said repeatedly throughout the day, just right out loud.

J: Is Wayne part of the UFO community? UFOs in Mojave should have been noted inside of the community, so I’ve got my wheels turning. So they introduce you to this other couple, they say cool. Wow. This is all pretty strange. So what happens next?

So they say, okay let’s go. The other couple had just arrived at the coffee shop and they said whatever they were saying about - I don't know, getting a drink or whatever, but they said they’d be right behind us. So I followed them, it was quite a drive. We arrived at their property and we went into the house and waited for their friends for I don't know, maybe half an hour or so, it doesn't really matter but during that time we were just talking more about his relationship and his experiences with the beings that I know to be - that I refer to as higher beings, that at that time he was referring to as aliens. He has a beautiful home, as you would expect. So he has an arched way that cuts his home in half, it like really designates one part of the house from the other. And we were standing in his kitchen area and he went and stood under it, and put his hand up and smacked the top of it and he said, "This is where they put me when they're done." And I said, "What're you walking about?" And he said, "Yeah, after I've been talking to the aliens, when I go see 'em, this is where they teleport me back." And I was just awestruck, I didn't even know what to say. He was so sincere and so forthright about it that again I was just thinking, this is the greatest day of my life or the worst. That I was going into that tunnel, no matter what.

J: So the friends do show up?

Yes. And so we took--

J: Did the five of you all go together?

Yes we did. Yes. Most of the walk - it was quite a jaunt - it was far enough that I was concerned about whether or not I was going to be able to make it, I was actually really struggling to make it. It was - I don’t know how long we walked because my focus was on trying to stay on my feet really, because I was feeling very weak. What was propelling me forward was this amazing conversation that was happening between Wayne and I and his friend. And it was just, he was explaining on the way there what he had done to conceal - and explaining that once we arrived, what I could expect, and then before I knew it we were there. And um he had indeed hidden it just as he had described to me. So he pulled back some of the camo - cuz there was some camouflaged netting up - he pulled it back and um there was the tunnel.

J: Could you walk in it? was it tall enough to walk in?

It was. Now his friend, Wayne’s friend who was with us is a little taller than Wayne, he's maybe, oh I don't wanna speculate, but he was taller and so he hunched a little bit but I don’t really know if he needed to or if it was just kinda the reaction of a tall person in a tunnel. But he did. He kinda shrunk his shoulders and arched his back a little, y'know what I mean. Just trying to make sure he wasn't hitting his head but nobody was in danger of really hitting their head or falling. It was fairly well excavated. It was - you know how the paths are on the trails in the Mojave, it was very much like that, y'know. There's an area of sand and them there's an area of a rock jutting out that y'know, he just didn't get all of it and you just have to kinda watch your footing. There was nothing bizarre about it, honestly, except that I was gonna see the aliens when I got to the end of it.

J: [laughs] Right. That's actually funny. Were there lights? Oh, is this at night or is this still during the day?

We - y'know, it was approximately 3PM when we got to the tunnel, when we arrived at the tunnel, approximately 3PM.

J: And what d'you guys have - flashlights?

Yes, um, one of them had a headlamp and there was a flashlight, I had my phone, my camera light was on, y'know my torch on my iPhone, I had that ready to go for whatever was going to happen, y'know - camera open, light on. That’s how I walked all the way through there. We could see fairly well. Trisha and her friend were behind me and they were chattering, I mean they were just literally just catching up like old friends do. It was really strange to me because this was such an incredible moment for me, very intense, and I was really not understanding the way that the people were acting around me because they were so cavalier about going into this tunnel and meeting this aliens that I really started wondering what I had gotten myself into. And I was becoming increasingly frustrated and starting to wonder if I'd been had. And then as we made our way through, there was a light that was what looked like the end of the tunnel ahead of us.

J: How long is the tunnel?

Oh goodness, um, I really don't wanna speculate. Every time I do, Jimmy, I get raked across the coals - I’m not gonna do it. Y'know, I was walking for several minutes and that’s what I’ll say. And then we saw the light and he said, "We're almost there," and his friend became more excited because I was pushing forward at this point trying to get beyond them. And so y'know he was kinda like giggling, like, y'know, “Yeah, she’s really in it now, y'know, like this is awesome, she’s about to have an awesome experience!” He was becoming more animated. So I got around him and I stood beside Wayne and we came around the - he had indeed made a right-hand turn and we came around the corner and there stood two different races of beings inside of their base. Standing right there.

J: Just like that?

Just. Like. That. Just like that.

​J: You must've been relieved it was ET and not a torture chamber for the end of your life, right?

Like some kind of snuff film or something? Yeah. I was incredibly relieved, and I mean at that moment the rest of the world just ceased to exist for me. I was just 100% focused on the beings standing in front of me.

J: [recap] ... and there in front of Anjali is what appears to be two aliens. 

More than two.

J: But you said two races.

Yes.

J: Two species.

They refer to themselves as another race, not another species.

J: Ah, very interesting. In this PC world we live in today, you say race and people jump all over me. They say race, we're gonna go with race. Describe what you're seeing - how tall were they? What did they look like?

One was a Grey - now I need to differentiate here between what one of the types of beings that I think that are sometimes referred to as Greys are organic while another appears inorganic but also contains a consciousness, okay? So I don’t think drone or droid or any those words are accurate. I don’t think that we have a word for what it is. It's like an avatar, may be the closest thing that I could think of to accurately describe the Grey that I was looking at. So it was not a Grey of the organic nature, okay, but of what I think is just an avatar, maybe what we could consider inorganic with our limited understanding of life and consciousness, but it does contain a consciousness that is aware and interactive.

J: So how tall was this Grey?

I would say about 4 foot.

J: How tall are you, by the way? 

Well I used to be, at one time in my life, I was 5’5” and then I became 5'4-and-a-half, and today unfortunately I’m 5’1”. So this being was easily a foot shorter, so I would say that 4 foot is probably as close of a guess as I could get.

J: Was it a typical Grey?

Yes, the almond-shaped large eyes, the almond-shaped head, the pointed chin, y'know more pointed, I would say, than ours. That could be an illusion because it could just be that the way their head is shaped may just go out in such a way that it looks more pointed at the chin, so I’m not really sure if it really is or if it's just because their head is big. A very thin neck, and I would say just all-in-all spindly, with the closest kind of fabric I could think of that was over the body is like neoprene. They just looked right at me and spoke to me right into my head.

J: Describe the second being.

The second race that was there - and I need to say that the Grey - no discernable gender. Just nothing that - not even that it's trying to replicate the idea of a gender in an organic. If we're saying like it's a metal robot, okay just I'm not saying that's what I saw, so that everybody's out there, I'm just saying that if it were something like that, you understand. The other race was quite tall and quite beautiful. They're very humanoid, slender but fit, around 6’ maybe a little taller, male and female gender expressions in their appearance. One of them had longer hair and was more feminine so they appeared to be feminine and masculine while also being very - just slender. Their hair was really quite pale and verging on white and their skin was very white and almost luminescent. Just y'know perfect, their skin was - they’re just beautiful, they're just very beautiful. Didn’t express much in the way of personality which is kind of interesting. And I’ve been thinking about this quite a bit, thinking about the way that these what I have begun to call Tall Whites, because I just don't know, I don't have a name, they didn’t interact with me. It was more like they escorted me. That's sort of how it felt. They were all dressed the same, and now thinking about that - not communicating with me, all dressed the same, very stoic in expression, even though they were beautiful they showed me absolutely no emotion, just ambivalence, okay, stoicism - I think they may be security, that’s what I have determined is that they may just be kind of like security.

J: Very very very interesting. What’s Wayne and the crew doing while you are having this first encounter?

Wayne is standing beside me, and his friend is over my shoulder, and the women are behind. And they’re just there, and the beings speak to me and I’m already stepping forward to them. I have to tell you that there was absolutely no fear, no hesitation, as soon as I saw them I just kept walking, like this is just amazing. And I walked right up to them and they - I could hear their conversation with the others, okay? None of them spoke but I could hear the Grey addressing the others, and their response. Now think about that. I could hear their response. They told them that they had to go, that I was going to go with them and that they needed to go back home. And Wayne was not down with that. Wayne knows that this is the first time that I've been here, he’s responsible for me, people out there know that, and this is the testament to what a decent human being he was - to a stranger, I really was a stranger - and he was just "No, I’m not going to go." And so they said "Okay, you can stay but the rest of you need to leave." And so he stood there and the rest of them just walked off and I didn’t know where they went, I just assumed they went home, I really didn't even care at that point. And so Wayne stood in the tunnel and waited for me to come back.

J: Describe the environment, this room that you're in?

Sure. The area that I entered into, the best way that I could describe it would be an alcove or a lobby, just like an area to leads to a lot of other areas. The interior was very smooth, it was a light color, very smooth texture, not like a dark metal or gunmetal grey or anything like that. I don't know what it was made out of. There weren’t sharp angles, everything was very soft and round. When I first stepped forward, right over to my right there was what I now know is a room, but it was just a big arch and there was what I'm going to assume was another door. Over to my left there was another arch but it was all black, and I couldn't see what was there, it was like the absence of light was there. All I can say, Jimmy, is I think that I think whatever was there, they just didn’t want me to see it. That it was an actual physical thing that I was not permitted to see. No idea what that was.

J: How many other beings were there?

Okay there were - at one point it was just the Grey and three Tall Whites. At another point it was the Grey and four Tall Whites - there was one that walked - there was one that kept coming back down the hall when I was standing there. Like I saw them leave and I saw them come back. And, yes. And then we all went down the hall. There was a door behind where they were standing, okay, in this alcove. I wanna go back to that real quick. So I'm standing, I've just stepped in, to my right is this door, to my left is nothing, like the absence of everything, and then straight - not straight ahead because it's not square, it was a little off to - a little over to the left there was another arch which I think was just another room that I didn't go into. And then beside that was the hallway that was kind of curved and went down to the room that they took me into.

J: Nobody's speaking, this is telepathic coming from the Grey? You're not getting communication from the Tall Whites.

That's right, they haven't spoken to me.

J: When you head down the hallway, did the Grey say to you, come with us? Or did they just turn and you followed naturally? How did that happen?

It was exactly that. It was just they started walking and I knew to go, and so I followed.

J: Okay, let's go down the hallway. What happens?

So we were walking down the hallway, we came to another, just an arch, and there was a door - I didn't know that they were doors at the time until this moment, but a door slid like a - what do they call it? Like a pocket door I think they call 'em - they slide into the wall? And that's what this thing did, it just slid right into the wall and opened up into a larger room on the other side, meaning that the ceiling was much higher than the room I was in, the lighting was different and there were several beings or races of beings that were in there. Quite a few of them. It was quite an overwhelming moment, you can imagine. 

J: What was this room? Can you take a guess as to the function of this room was?

Yes, and I wanna start with the very first thing that I saw, that I noticed when the door opened because it really helps me to understand who this being is and what their purpose is. The being that I had been having conscious contact with, okay - in the weeks prior to meeting Wayne and Trisha and this amazing day - was what I thought at the time a 4’ humanoid extra-terrestrial, okay, that had lavenderish skin, was standing, y'know how they showed me themselves that they were standing at end of a hallway, and that there was a window behind them, a round window that was nearly the size of his whole body, and then there was a long window that came forward to where I was, so that I could see them from that perspective, and there was a door, a round door that was over here, and anyway behind them I could see like a - the best way I can describe it is like an orange creamsicle or peaches-and-cream-colored planet behind them, outside in space. And so from how they had showed themselves to me, I had believed that they were about 4' tall. But, so this door opens and I’m looking at part of a lavender being, and my eyes just go up and they’re literally y'know approaching probably 8 feet tall, Jimmy, and it is the being that I’d been speaking to. I had absolutely no idea because there was no scale, there was nothing but this being in their environment. And so I believe that they’re a doctor, and that that’s their role is healing, like they're a healer, they diagnose and heal. And it had the feel of I was getting care basically, that’s what I was there for.

J: The windows - what was the window there for? What was on the other side of it? Why would you need to see through it?

Okay let's make sure that we understand what I - let me recap just a bit so that there isn't any confusion. When I'm talking about how he first appeared to me, I'm saying that was during conscious contact before I had seen them physically. That's how they appeared--

J: No, I get it, totally very clear. We'll come back to lavender guy in just a second. What I was asking is, when you said there were windows in this room, what was on the other side of the glass?

Um, window just now? I don't remember saying - the windows are in the hallway that he showed me, not the hallway where he was standing. Those windows were not where we were. He was showing me a different place.

J: Oh, I got you.

It was like the ship itself, okay. I thought we weren't communicating - yeah, absolutely, that was not the place that was at.

J: Very interesting, okay. We’re gonna run out of time tonight. I knew this was gonna happen! Are you a night owl? Can you to stay for some overtime?

Yeah, absolutely, I am a night owl.

J: Okay, you just said ship, right?

Yeah, I think that he was showing me a craft in space, yes, outside of Earth's atmosphere.

J: This base - [you] described Wayne's encounters seeing something over the top of his mountain which started all of this. Did you see those ships going into the mountain to the base?

I didn't see that, but that was my understanding from Wayne, absolutely, that they enter the base, excuse me, that they go into the mountain and into the base.

J: This base, what is the purpose? Is it a barracks? Is this a living envrinoment or is there something else going on?

I don’t know. My sense is that they have been living there, and that this is part of their guardianship, their activity here.

J: How far did you get into the base?

Not far at all, not far at all. I just briefly walked down this hall and it was the first room to our left, and there was no other room that we passed on the right. So, not after the first one that I had seen.

J: This room where there's several races - was that as far into the base as you got? Was that where it stopped?

It absolutely is. I did not get any further. I was escorted from that room back to the alcove.

J: And kicked out, right.

Kicked out! Literally.

J: Was there any artwork on the wall, any decorations? Was there anything that seemed comfortable? Or was it institutional?

No, it was very institutional, it was a - everything was soft, like I said there weren't sharp edges, but it was austere and smooth There were no expressions of creativity beyond just the fact that it was something that I've never ever seen a human do.

J: So they didn't have Van Halen piped through on a speaker system?

No, it was silent.

J: I'm very curious about the lavender - great description, by the way, you can capture visual but I have no idea what this being looks like so we're gonna talk about that in a second. Do you have any time reference on how long you were actually inside the base?

I do. I can say that when I arrived back at his house it was around 9 o’clock, so about 6 hours had passed.

J: Wow. Did you take pictures?

No [small laugh], no, I didn’t.

J: I get it, caught up in the moment for sure.

I’m not so sure that that’s all that it is, Jimmy, because honestly we are dealing with - I was there for 6 hours, I cannot recount every moment of that 6-hour period. And that doesn’t mean it wasn’t eventful, it just means I simply there's time that I do not have, so all I know is that when I got back to Wayne’s house my cell phone was in my pocket, and that’s all I can say. So I don’t know when I put it there or why, they may have told me to, I don't know. I do know that if they had wanted me to have a photo of them they would’ve given me one. But I feel that they really were looking for a different experience at that moment with me, and that it just simply wasn't time for me to go out and show physical evidence that they were. They had something else that needed to be done first.

J: Let's talk about the lavender being. Describe what this being looked like.

Eight foot tall, humanoid body. I will admit that I cannot see the back of the being unfortunately. They had a very thin neck and they had a very bulbous head, and their cheek bones came right up, they were closer together on the face than you would think for the size, [for] the bulbousness of the rest of the head. And right over these tighter higher cheek bones were these beautiful almond eyes. And they have a small mouth that I didn’t see move. It doesn't mean that it couldn't. I didn't - I don’t have recollection at the moment of the hands. I know that they physically touched my body. I was helped onto the table and I believe that they may have been touching me after that when they put me into a misty light that was for I believe like a diagnostics and healing. I believe that I was in a medical facility.

J:Did you lay on this table? 

I laid supine on the table, okay, on my back. And they - at some point they removed my consciousness from my body I - they placed me - I was in this - like I said it was like, Jimmy if you can imagine like mist, you know how really fine mist is in the spring, imagine that, and that every little particle of water is light, and that's what it was. It was just bathing me and it felt like so much love and compassion and empathy. I cannot explain to you, I just wish you could experience it, I just want everyone to experience it.

J: No fear?

None, not at any moment. When they consciously communicate it's so far beyond telepathy. Telepathy sounds like more the the mechanics of reading people's thoughts and sending them a thought, or trying to, at least. Most people when they think of telepathy also unfortunately go towards the idea of reading thoughts instead of sending, and like actually wanting to have some kind of legitimate communication. It's very bizarre and I am not an advocate of telepathy. I think that it's devoid of intention and mindfulness, and that's just not healthy for anyone, at any time. So the conscious contact, the conscious communication is essentially - you receive like an image, and this image it goes right into your mind. It contains their intention, it contains emotion, and it contains information, and it all happens at once.

J: Were you able to do it as well? Were you able to communicate back?

You know, I automatically communicated, and I can’t explain how it happened. I think it was just that I had set the intention to do it, and they were doing it with me, they were facilitating that communication because I so much desired that. I really wanted that communication with them at that moment.

J: Was this the being that came to you before your trip to the ET base?

The lavender being was the same being, yes, yes, absolutely.

J: That means your encounter with Wayne was not an accident.

Absolutely. I have - yes, that is correct.

J: I've got 8 zillion questions and I'm trying to pick the one at this moment. You'll be in the show again, we'll go in another direction. You leave the base - you mentioned earlier that Wayne said, "This is where they teleport me back." Is that how you got back to Wayne's house?

That is exactly how I got back to Wayne’s house. And I think that they were communicating with him at that moment when he told me that in his home, I believe that was to prepare me for what was going to happen so I would understand. When we left, again it was the Grey and I, and the Tall Whites were behind us, and we walked out into that alcove again and Wayne was standing there. The next thing that I remember was that Wayne stepped into the space where I was, and as soon as he did, it was [snaps fingers] blink, and the next thing I see is Wayne staring right at me, we're in his house, we're under that dang wooden arch, and I just - my hands go to my head and I scream: “What the eff is going on?” And Wayne says, “What did they say to you? What'd they tell you?” And their friend goes, “Oh you guys are back now. That’s what the - is going on.” And it was like nothing, and Wayne just - we had this incredible moment where we had just experienced this together and he wanted to know what they had talked about. He had never been in the base up to that moment, that he knew. I wanna make that very clear, y'know Wayne said that he had never been into the base. I’m not so certain that Wayne remembers at that point whether he had been in the base, cuz this is a funny kind of situation. He just knew that every time they were finished conversing with him, they would send him back there.

J: Was that the only time you’ve been in the base?

I do not believe so.

J: What does that mean?

Well the reason I say that is that I - they also visited me at my home and I went with them but I do not remember where we went.

J: Explain. [laughs] I don't understand.

Okay. I woke up in my bed and there were four of them there, and they were actually standing on my bed, kind of hunched over towards me.

J: Greys?

Yes, Greys - and all the same size as the Grey avatar. And my initial [gasp] immediately turned into: "Oh, it’s you guys," and I wasn’t afraid. And I remember beginning to get up to leave with them, and then the next thing I remember is I'm back in my bed, it’s morning. I wake up and there I am.

J: After you left Wayne's that night, did you ever go back to Wayne's property?

I did, I went back the next day to pick up my car.

J: How did you get home that night? We'll come back to that. So you get your car. Other than that, have you been back to Wayne's property?

No, I have not. But he has - we were not in contact for a period of time, we are in contact now of course and I have of course an open invitation to visit him.

J: Does he know about the press conference?

He absolutely does, yes. They knew about it before the press conference.

J: The base is on his property, I'm assuming he owns it, it's private property.

It is very much private property.

[2:21:45] ​J: So Wayne knows - I mean, did you make these plans with Wayne to come back to the property with a team of scientists and a camera crew from History Channel or wherever?

Yeah. Um, yes. So of course Wayne is involved in this stage of the process. So he is very much willing to have the team come there. We are of course trying to figure out all of the security precautions that we need to take, not only for him and his family but also for the team that goes with us. How to protect from anyone who may just try to force their way onto the property and cause a problem. So he’s very much involved in this process. I had someone ask if he was going to be a member of the team and what would make him an expert who would be qualified. It's just such a crazy question because it's his mountain and as far as I'm concerned he's gonna be standing right up front beside me. So we're very excited about this whole process. They’re ready. They are ready when the beings are ready and when the team is ready.

J: Can I come?

[laughs] You know, Jimmy, we’ve been thinking about doing like a "name your celebrity that the public would like in the community" or I don't know what you would call it, but just someone that people can relate to. And so we wanted to - we've been discussing perhaps putting a poll out, taking nominations from the public, and then putting a poll out and accepting y'know those results. So you’ve got work to do.

J: I'll be last on that list, I'll get one vote. But I sure would like to. How is Wayne’s health? You mentioned he had cancer. 

Yes, it is better than it was, much better than it was, yes, we're very thankful for that.

J: You were a part of the DIA. Has anybody from your past contacted you recently about this? Official or in any way?

Through official means?

J: In any way.

No.

J: Are they aware of what is going on?

Um I would think they’re pretty aware, yes.

J: Okay but in an official sense, you haven't been contacted?

That's right.

J: Okay.

Isn’t that interesting? Can we talk about that?

J: Yes, I wanna talk about that! Yes, of course.

Because you know what, I want to talk about that. I find it interesting that no one has contacted me through official channels. I've spent a lot of time trying to analyze that, what does that mean, what are the possibilities. And the possibilities I come up with - and I'm open to more of them - but one is that they already know, and so I’m not telling them anything that they don’t know, and I’m very transparent about it. I’ve been incredibly vocal. So, y'know, that's a possibility. The other possibility is that they don’t know and they also know that they can’t make me tell them and make me take military with me, y'know, that sort of thing, because I just won’t go. It just won't happen. And so the only way to know is to let me go. So that's another option. And y'know those are the two for me that stand out the most and I'm all ears for what else it could be but those are the only - the two most viable is they know or they don't and they want to.

J: Were you a civilian employee? Did you have a GS classification or were you a contractor?

I had a GG and I was also a contractor.

J: Did you at some point have a security clearance?

Oh absolutely, I had a top secret special access programs clearance, so, yes, I was very highly cleared.

J: Would this show or your press conference affect your sec clearance or needed to get one in the future?

I guarantee you that I won’t be getting one in the future, that bridge has been nuked and hey I’m okay with that, it was a decision I made, a mindful decision, it wasn't accidental. I didn’t accidentally decide to ruin my career. I decided to push for disclosure of the contact with these beings as they've instructed and so - I don't know, does that answer your question?

J: In the press conference you gave all your names. The Pentagon has databases to check you out. 

I do not have any intention of ever needing a security clearance. I do not plan on ever protecting a secret that I’ve learned going forward. I'm not going to violate the oath of what I have already promised to protect but I am not willing to pledge some kind of an allegiance to silence in the name of national security at this point. Cat’s out of the bag and it's not going back in. And I understand what that means. I'm just not understanding - not entirely certain about the silence. The press conference and me giving all of the information that I gave was definitely for the people who - peers and colleagues who weren't aware or people in the community or prior people that y'know, you don't accidentally speak vernacular, it was very intentional vernacular, while at the same time making myself and my history and my life very transparent, giving people public access to my Linked In profile that is heavily attached to my former industry. It was a really big move for me. I’m not willing to keep anything out of the public view on this topic at all.

J: [In overtime] None of this was discussed with Anjali before the show, I don’t do that with any guests. Have you assembled this team [of scientists]?

Not entirely, Jimmy, no, I have not - it’s a pretty complex process as people can imagine. Actually apparently a lot of people cannot imagine [that] this is a complex process because they're demanding it, that I just go and do it right now. And that’s simply not what they’ve chosen, that is not the soft disclosure the beings are asking for. Part of the soft disclosure will of course be the evidence and that data that is gathered by the team that comes with us, with Wayne and I, and then present that information to the world - it does not belong to them, it does not belong to me. These are details that people don’t think about. We’re still trying to write up the legal contract saying that people will have to sign saying that that information does not belong to them, and that it must be released publicly. Trying to figure out the platform for that release and how who holds all of it? A lot of questions that we're trying to answer on our end that cannot be answered in the timeframe that public sentiment may desire. If you really want this to go well, you're just gonna have to give me some time and space to figure all of these very complex details out.

J: Have you visualized the size of this team?

I really don’t wanna speculate on that at this point. I’m afraid that if I do so, that if the need arises to change that number that it just will be more difficult for people to understand. So I would rather get closer to feeling like we have that complete picture of what we need. A big part of this process is also trying to learn from professionals what kind of equipment exists and what they can offer, and how we get a hold of that equipment. This isn’t a half-ass walk through a tunnel that we're talking about here. We’re talking about bringing some incredible evidence forward for the public so that they can understand that they are not alone, to get a feeling for what the beings are here for. And this contact with the team will be a catalyst for consciousness experiences for people all across the planet. It will become that because that is the intention that the higher beings have at this time. And they are driving this process. That is the goal, so once the conscious contact happens on a wider scale, then at that point they will be comfortable enough with feeling it is time for them to come forward physically into the same space that we are in.

J: This going to be a pretty exclusive VIP guest list. Are they suggesting who should be a part of this team?

Yes. Typically when I have run across someone they want - because I speculate, I spend a lot of time researching - they make it very clear when it is someone that they - they make it very clear, they’ll say yes, yes, and they will show me their face and they’re happy. And so they have all kinds of ways of communicating that I'm looking the name of someone that they would like to be there.

J: Really? Okay, that's a whole show in itself right there. I keep visualizing a combination of the movie Arrival and the movie Contact. The date - you have stated that this will happen in 2021. Can you elaborate? There's only a few months left. We're now almost in September.

That's right. There’s really nothing else to elaborate on. It will happen before the end of 2021. Hold my feet to the fire.

J: Is this from them, this window of opportunity?

Yes. Yes.

J: If I may be so forward - this has to happen.

Sure.

J: You said it yourself, the cat is out of the bag, this cannot not happen.

That’s right. They have told me they have absolutely every intention of being present on site, in their base, when we arrive, and they have every intention of allowing the team that I bring to communicate with them and gather their evidence because this is their disclosure. Do not think for a moment Jimmy that this is my disclosure. This is the higher beings' disclosure. Everything else in my life has come to a halt, okay. I mean it's like - this is - They are driving this process and I have every intention of following their guidance and their instruction. So, they say that this will be before the end of 2021, that we will be out of that tunnel with evidence of their existence - compelling, undeniable, irrefutable.

J: We don’t need this to be a Capone’s vault moment

I can completely agree with that. Of course that would be very devastating. That is not the intention that they have communicated with me time and again. So I guess we’re just gonna have to wait, we're just gonna have to get through that tunnel.

J: You’ve been talking to Wayne.

Yes.

​J: They’re still there, right? In other words, you round the corner and they've packed up and moved...

No, no, no. They are not packing up and moving on. This is their disclosure. I cannot repeat that enough. Their intention is to have first contact with humanity, widespread contact. This is a very delicate process, it's not just a physical disclosure that they are here in the same world with us, it's also a consciousness disclosure. And the reason that it is, is because the only way that we can communicate with each other is through conscious communication. It is a much more advanced form of communication. It is so full and rich with intention and understanding and information. It's just far superior to what we have been doing with each other on this Earth. And they’re saying that it is time, there are changes that are happening that make this absolutely necessary that we seek changes so that we can have this conscious communication with them. And so we’re going through that process. I know that there is a lot of impatience, I understand, I wish I could say everything all at once and just get it out there, but that’s not reality, that’s not how it goes and I'm just gonna keep doing what I'm doing until it's done.

J: Outside of this project is the [other UAP stuff over the last three months] - I feel the government etc. know more about ET and contact they’re not telling us.

I would love to have that discussion. It doesn't even have to be on camera Jimmy, we can have it any time you want.

J: They know of bases on this planet, they have to.

Yeah. I would say at this point there are definitely factions within DoD and within the military industrial complex that are not only aware of the presence of what may be extra-terrestrial or could be ultra-terrestrial, and I think that we need to consider that, because our understanding of what this is and where we are may not be as complete as we think it is. If nothing else, is there collusion between beings and various factions of the MIC in the US? I would say yes. And other countries? I would say undeniably. It’s evidence everywhere. So I don’t really know what that means for what’s happening to me, okay. I don’t know how I fit into this. I see the synchronicity, I see everything happening, the beings are telling me everything is speeding up, this cycle we are in is coming to a fruition. And so I sense that and I think we’re seeing that all around us. That’s just more evidence that this is their disclosure, this is happening at their behest.

J: I wonder if the Pentagon is aware of this specific base.

That's the question that I was trying to determine the answer to earlier, is why haven’t they approached me about the location of this base? Well the answer is either because they already know, or it because it becomes classified information and that I wouldn’t cooperate. That's the truth of the matter. I've made it very very clear that I am pushing for 100% transparency in this. And so I certainly can't be bullied into giving the location to anyone. And that includes any government. I simply won't do it. So, the choice is to sit back and be quiet or never find out. And so they either know or they don't, you know what I'm saying? I mean that gets us nowhere, it's just they either know or they don't.

J: Or here's choice number 3, or we might've been at 4: They are feverishly looking for this location right now.

Y’know, I would not doubt that.

J: Has Wayne talked about crazy surveillance vans driving around his property?

Oh no. No no no. Where he is, this property, it’s fairly secluded, I mean it's very - it’s so secluded that anybody would stick out like a sore thumb, you just cannot do it. So if he's going to be monitored, then it would be completely covert monitoring because any kind of overt monitoring, they'll just be made immediately, and he’d chase them off his land. He's not going to allow that.

J: I like your choice of words.

Thank you.

J: "Overt... They would be made immediately." I know that you're talking to Wayne - so Wayne hasn’t seen anything suspicious? No black helicopters? Nothing crazy? No flyovers? So far, so good.

So far, so good.

J: Thank you, you've been very candid and very open tonight and I look forward to your next visit on the show. What is the next step, and do you need the from the community, or is this something that you are handling on your own?

Oh, no, I’m definitely not handling it on my own. I’m leaning heavily on subject matter experts on this. I’m not deciding what kind of equipment should come with us. I am asking people who know about this sort of thing, in various industries, what kinds of equipment, and what should we be trying to detect, is there anything I'm missing. It's not any easy process, we really just want to be thorough and to do it right the first time and for what we bring forth to be so irrefutable, and to be the raw data, that's shared internationally, that just maybe people will sit down and think a little bit about the nature of their own existence. 

J: Thank you so much, Anjali, and thank you to Alan Steinfeld, right?

Yes, I love Alan, he's so amazing.

J: He's quite the troublemaker and he knows that, he's awesome, a great friend for many many years. Anjali, be safe out there. I can't imagine your world right now. If you need anything, you know how to reach out to me, you've got all the secret stuff.

I love all the secret stuff. thank you so much.

J: Your social media presence - the only way to reach out to you is via Twitter at this poit?

That's right, that's how I would prefer, yes.

J: There may be a website in the future?

It will be team-centric and project-centric, really focusing on the expedition and the kind of data that we're trying to create. So we took it down amidst a lot of criticism and controversy that was really just a dead end, but I just - it just became more of a hassle than it was anything else in my life and so we're repurposing it and will present it very focused on the next steps - again that's even more work that needs to be done.

Sep 13, 2021 Truthseekers with Steven Cambian

S = Steven Cambian (questions are paraphrased not quoted)

S: [He apologizes – he was wrong to be skeptical of her claims, he and researchers dug deeper, he verified her background. He called 100 construction companies looking for Wayne while other researchers followed different leads – including Charlie Wiser and James A. Conrad who found a construction company owner who owned a mountain property, and verified his identity through social media and other online resources. Introduces Anjali.]
I appreciate that, Steven. You don’t need to eat crow. The apology is enough and it’s sincere and all is forgiven. I really don’t understand the history of the UFO community. But I’m learning. I think they call it proxy by fire.
 
S: Your story has ignited controversy and curiosity. [He says if your background, friends, and the mountain are real, why not give her the benefit of the doubt and what can be learned.]
Thank you. That’s really all I ask for. So please, whatever questions you have--
 
S: [Says he met purple beings and was taken out of his body, but his experience was under the influence of DMT. Is it possible you were dosed with a hallucinogen perhaps unknowingly?]
Um, I think that we’ll know soon enough. My — I can’t tell you what I experienced was not like a particular hallucinogen. I know this is the biggest talk out there, one of the biggest.
 
S: Have you ever done a hallucinogenic drug?
I have had a synthetic mushroom. It was developed in a university lab. Had been purchased that way. I was told it was a synthetic mushroom. It was from someone I trusted very much. It was a powder, kind of a tan powder.
 
S: Did you find that experience similar to this experience with aliens?
No. What I was about to say is that I was really disappointed because other than having what I’d say was some euphoria with that synthetic – that powder I was talking about, I had some euphoria. Colors were a little more vivid, I saw some auras a little bit, but nothing out of the ordinary otherwise. And I was really disappointed because I was thinking, here I was--
 
S: [The most commonly reported thing that see on DMT is a purple being.]
Okay, wow. No, I didn’t know that. What I have understood about DMT from what people have told me, a lot of people have suggested to me that perhaps when what I would say is the beginning of this stage of contact with the beings, in 2017 when I was in the hospital, a lot of people were suggesting then that when the woman who had just passed came to see me, that I was maybe having a DMT release. Me not knowing anything about DMT, I’m thinking oh okay, well people say you can hallucinate, maybe that’s what I was having, maybe I had a DMT release and so I kinda went with it. Until after I came out on the alien subreddit and started looking into the artwork that people had done of what they see when they’re on DMT and I’m like stop the press! That doesn’t look anything like what I experienced. What I experienced was a completely normal environment, however there are some higher beings that happen to be standing at the end of the tunnel inside of a base. I’m getting a little confused now, y’know what I’m saying, as I’m going in, like things are feeling a little different. I’m not as clear as I was a moment before. And that’s when the experience of being with them began. And I was upright. I mean if I took some or was dosed with some kind of hallucinogen, I would really like to know what it was because I walked up and down a mountain and was quite active, went through a tunnel, I was lucid, everything looked normal, y’know what I’m saying? There was nothing different except at the destination there actually were beings of another race that I was about to [meet].
 
S: [Question from Charlie Wiser [Anjali performs impressive eye-roll] – why wait 3 years to return instead of returning for evidence.]
I can’t give you an answer to that. I can tell you the path of my contact at the time with my friends and my attempt to contact and reach them, that was unsuccessful, which I’ve already talked about. I would say that if you know anything about southern California, it’s not the kind of place that you go and trespass. Even at that elevation it’s very difficult to find water. It wasn’t an area that I felt like — Look it never even crossed my mind to try and trespass or to go against his will. It was almost – this isn’t gonna make sense and I know that I’m probably going to be grilled on it and that’s fine because none of you have walked in my shoes, unless you have and then this’ll make sense to you--
 
S: So did you have to negotiate with Wayne to have to go back?
Wait. It’s like they just didn’t want me to and I knew that I wasn’t going to go back, like I couldn’t just go back because I wanted to. I toiled and toiled at them for weeks, just desperate, desperate to get back. It was very difficult. Later they actually came and visited me physically and I have other memories of being back at the base, but I don’t really know what happened there. So, anyway, I just need you guys to understand that it’s not real black and white all the time. It’s pretty confusing on my end, too.
 
S: [Speculates there might be effects on the human brain that being in proximity to these beings could have. There could be memory confusion]
That’s right.
 
S: [Barbara Lamb, he spoke with her, they disagree on many things but she’s awesome]
Yes, she’s sweet.
 
S: [Wouldn’t the memories be vivid and immediately accessible, why did you need a hypnotic regression to organize the experience?]
[shakes head] I don’t know, I don’t know. I would say that once again as nebulous as it is, as unsatisfying as it is to hear, that’s part of the phenomena – the experience of the phenomena is this. I can’t explain why I only had partial memories, I can’t explain why through meditation I was able to uncover more, which made me want to reach out to Barbara because that was when I began – after I came out on Reddit, after that I really upped my meditation and my commitment to understanding more of what had happened to me because at that time things were just really not clear. And I’m not saying that they’re clear now, just there’s a lot more that I see but I know that there’s a lot of mud still. It’s like I can’t see the bottom. I have no [idea?] it goes on and on and on.
 
S: [Some social media interactions have been emotionally charged, do you regret how some of this has been handled? You’ve unblocked people to be more transparent]
That’s right. I’m also human and it’s funny, like as soon as you start talking about consciousness, transcendence, it’s like people think that I think that I’ve already done it or something, that I’m preaching something. That’s not what I’m doing. I’m trying to share what they’re saying to me because it feels pretty damned important. If you don’t want to do it, you don’t have to do it. It’s a personal choice that people make, they don’t have to be anywhere but at home. So anyway, I guess what I wanted to really say is that there have been some instances in which yes, I do regret – no I don’t regret it, I apologized and I hold myself to a higher standard than I hold anyone else. I’m done berating the heck out of myself to try to sit on somebody’s pedestal. I’m just not interested. I’m just having a human experience and part of it is this, this conscious contact, and I know how it’s transformed my life and I want to share that with other people.
 
S: [We’ve eliminated DMT as a cause of your experience. Are you open you’re being deceived or not communicating with aliens but with a fractal of your own psyche?]
Uh, no on that second part. [read the first part again] I am open to every possibility. I have no idea any more than anyone else. I can tell you how it feels to be in their presence, I can tell you what it feels like when they reach out and communicate. I can tell you that I’ve never met anyone personally who gave so much warmth and had so much peace. It’s such a moving experience just being near them. I don’t know how that’s bad. I look back at who I am and I feel I’m so much of a better person than I was, so much closer, I guess, to being the kind of person that I’d hoped to be one day--
 
S: This experience made you a better person?
Oh absolutely. Absolutely.
 
S: [it was that profound and lifechanging?]
Oh yeah, absolutely. It’s been the most transformative experience of my life. So far.
 
S: [Is it possible you have mental illness that causes you to hallucinate and hear voices?]
If I have some sort of illness that causes me to hallucinate and hear voices, it’s something that nobody else has ever had or seen before. I don’t know anyone who can operate from a level of psychosis that people are trying to suggest, that I come in and out of, constantly. But yet I can have lucid conversations, I can take care of myself, and I’m not--
 
S: [Did you get a sense of why are they here, what do they want, and why you?]
Someone just said, “Hello, Steven.” So, you just got a greeting.
 
S: [The higher beings are talking to me? That’s interesting.]
They’re acknowledging you, they’re saying hello, whoo! They’re here because they are part of the natural cycle of what we’re experiencing ourselves right now, that I agreed to come here and do this and go through these challenges prior to this incarnation. They say that I have an agreement with them, that I volunteered for this, that this I my work that I do. Now I’m telling you that this feels right to me. I’m not telling you I have memory of it being true. I just have how it feels very true, do you understand? It’s like there’s this itch, I don’t know how else to explain it. I can’t quite reach something and I try. They say that they are here to facilitate our choices at the end of this cycle that’s a very natural cycle that comes to a natural conclusion. That we will be moving into a non-temporal – more of a shift in the way that we perceive time and how we can interact with space. That this is natural, as well, and it’s on a cycle. They keep showing me like a cycle, like a wheel that’s moving, like a wheel. And that that cycle is ending right now because the Earth has its own consciousness. I’m gonna say she because it makes me--
 
S: Yeah, Mother Earth, I’m good with that.
We all talk about Mother Earth, but right or wrong, the Earth itself has a density of its own consciousness and that it is itself transcending into a higher density of light consciousness. They show me – it’s like if you could see something moving very quickly [shakes fingers] but so quickly that its imperceivable but it goes hmmmmm [high pitched].
 
S: [What’s the difference between ascension (per other New Age teachings) and transcension?]
I don’t know what they mean by ascension, it’s sounds very Judeo-Christian oriented, so I could probably take a stab at it but I won’t.
 
S: [from the Rapture. Is transcension the same thing as all these other New Age gurus have discussed?]
Okay first of all I’m gonna unpack the implication which is that I’m a New Age guru. That is a mischaracterization.
 
S: My apologies.
Thank you. First of all the idea of vibrations and frequencies, manipulating them and their role in energy and — they’re showing like the movement of stone and – they’re saying the use of vibration, the talk of vibration, it’s not new, that it isn’t a New Age belief, it’s just it was essentially forgotten. It’s like forgotten knowledge more than new knowledge, it’s forgotten knowledge. That’s just part of the cycle, the waking up is the transcending part. It’s realizing the connection to all sorts of consciousness, that there is an observer that you yourself, you can observe yourself, and what is that? What is that observer? That observer is the source of all consciousness. It’s like that’s where we all manifest from. They want us to understand that because it’s important for our ability to transcend and our ability to – it helps to facilitate our choice about what we want to do next. Is there anything in that that I need to clarify?
 
S: No.
We can go deeper if that’s not satisfactory.
 
S: [A lot of people with these stories are after money. Did you change your mind about a book, documentary?]
So I’m really glad that you’ve had such an interest in this because you’ll probably recall if you’ve listened to that initial Clubhouse interview and the second one [Extraterrestrial Evidence with Roderick Martin] how many times I was prompted by several of the other people on the speaker panel to write a book, that I had to write a book, “you gotta do it, that’s how you do it, it’s the only way to get it out.”
 
S: [I heard that]
Constantly, right? Constantly. And it’s not that they were wrong, it’s just that I didn’t have a lot of other guidance, that was my first step into the community and that was the reception I got, that “Oh you gotta write a book, you gotta write a book.” So I didn’t want to write a book. I just was continually getting that counsel that that’s what I should do, that I had to have a website, this is just how you do it, yada yada yada. And not that it’s not true, it’s just that that’s how you do it if you have a particular path that you’re trying to be on. That’s just not the path I’m trying to be on. But I didn’t understand at the time. And so I had a website put up. I was told before my third appearance you have to get this website up, you have to get that order form up, it’s not working, it’s not working.
 
S: [So many people have profited from stories and never provided the proof – in your case you’ve given us a hard date]
Right.
 
S: [At first I was why do we have to wait? December is not far off]
It’s right around the corner.
 
S: [In the press conference you said in a week you’d release names, and so far we’ve just got Wayne and one other person]
Yeah, I’m not releasing the names. Um, I’m not. Not after the way that I’ve been treated and frankly there have been people who are interested in being on the team that I would like them to be on the team, and they don’t want their names public, they don’t want to be on camera, they don’t want anybody to know. They just want to be a part of the research and turn over their data. That’s it.

S: [lists all his cool equipment, ready to jump on a plane, “Maybe you could put me in the Twitter poll.”]
But I wanna go back to this website, cuz I feel like it’s really important. So, there was never any fee attached to the book, never. The pre-order form was up, it didn’t work. It never worked. The website began getting attacked. We tried to get a more secure server. We had so many problems that we actually had to get some high-level involvement. And then I just said, “Screw it, screw it, I don’t even care, I just don’t wanna deal with it anymore, I’m not writing the book, I’m not gonna do it. My life is not important, just what they’re saying is what’s important and what they’re saying is gonna happen next is what’s important. I’m sick of talking about me, I don’t wanna talk about me.” And then the next thing you know, that darn screenshot comes up and I said, Oh my god – and you can follow all the comments, even.
 
S: [I saw the screenshot and said why release a book in October if you’re going to have proof in December… There was peer pressure, that’s how everyone does it, write the book, do conferences. I’m glad you’re going it your way now.]
Well it’s not that – they’re doing – what they’re doing is they’re getting all the information out that they’re trying to get out, and what I’m doing is I’m going to hopefully introduce these beings to you. You know, walk right out eventually, right out of their base, hand in hand.
 
S: [What if this is real and I’m the guy that said, this is garbage and in a few short months I’m gonna look silly.]
It’s okay.
 
S: [I’m supposed to be a researcher. This mountain we found, Anjali has explained that if his privacy is compromised, the whole thing could be off and I don’t wanna be the reason that that happened or to give an excuse for that to not happen or whatever, so I got in this bad situation here that I have this information, I know this woman’s telling the truth now, and what do I do with it? Everybody’s asking me to give them the location – I’m not doing it.]
Thank you.
 
S: [Explains he will not be giving out Wayne’s identity, that before talking to Anjali he shared it with Erica Lukes (UFO Classified) who is sworn to secrecy.]
Thank you.
 
S: [I’m on the edge of my seat to see what happens. I want to see a conclusion to this amazing story, regardless of what happens.]
I think we’re going to. I don’t know what the conclusion looks like. I don’t know exactly what happens after they come forward – not after the team and after the evidence, but after they come forward I don’t really know what that looks like. I think that I have a pretty good idea but I don’t know necessarily that it’s any kind of insight they’ve given me or if it’s just my own thinking. It can be kind of – how do I put this – where they will withhold information, give it to me a little bit at a time, you know just bits.
 
S: Drip it out.
Yes, yeah. That’s kinda what I’ve been going through and it can be very frustrating especially when I understand so much more now, but I was so very clear about what I understood at the beginning and I would say, people would ask me questions and I would say oh, I don’t know, I have absolutely no idea. And then today they can ask me the same question and I have a very long answer for them, and so people think I’m making it up. They just don’t understand how ramped up the contact has become since I came forward.
 
S: [Asks if she is working for the government give the history of the US government sending disinformation agents]
No, not only am I not, but I would not. I love humanity and the Earth a lot more than I feel and allegiance based on some type of unnatural human-made concept of: this space belongs to us and that people who live here are better than the people who live there. I just don’t buy into it. I don’t think there’s a government in the world who’d want me, to be honest with you.
 
S: [When you talk about aliens that’s a problem for some employers, right?]
Only at a certain level. You get to the right level and you find other people who are listening. I mean this isn’t – all of this isn’t happening in the shadows and some of it’s just happening right before our eyes and we’re just not quite catching everything, I don’t think.
 
S: [Get back to the money situation]
Oh yeah, sure.
 
S: [What is your stance on making money from this story? Are you going to do a book eventually? Do you have any financial interest?]
I don’t have financial interest – I’m not saying I don’t think about money because honestly that’s the reality we’re all facing right now.
 
S: [We praise the cash here. With the amount of attention you’re getting, you could sell 10,000 books.]
Oh, easy.
 
S: [There is a lot of money in this stuff]
Sure. I agree, and I think that I’ve already matured out of a need for a pursuit for that. I’ve had plenty and I’ve had none. And the happiest time in my life was when I had none, when I had nothing and I was living much more of a present –
 
S: I’m sorry I got thrown out of my own show there by accident.
Was I? Was I still talking?
 
S: You’re fine. I clicked when I should’ve clacked.
I forgot what I was saying, I’m so sorry.
 
S: We were talking about the money situation.
I have no desire to make money on this.
 
S: [Jokingly offers to come along and write a book to make money, points out others make money from her e.g. monetized YouTube.] It’s not just you that has a supposed financial interest.
But I don’t. I don’t have a financial interest, I took that completely off the table. If I write a book number 1, it’s not going to be about my experience, okay, or my life, my former contact, none of that.

S: You’re good at writing books though, aren’t you? For a time you’d ghostwrite books for people?
Yeah, I’m not saying that I’m not a good writer, I’m saying that I’m not interested in writing a book about me, I’m not interested. If I were, and this is the biggest if out there, if I were to write a book it would have to be about them, and it would have to be about what they are saying and what’s happening right now, more like keeping a record of it, than it would be something that would be for any kind of monetary gain. And you can’t keep something like that and publish it and sell it to people, that’s like the sickest thing I’ve ever heard. It would have to be something that would be available to everyone everywhere.
 
S: [Says information important to humanity should be for everyone]
Well now hold on, it’s a little difficult because of the way that society is already constructed, it’s really difficult to operate outside of that and decide: I’m going to dedicate my life to telling my story and sharing my experience and disclosure for the rest of my life and I’m not going to make any money. We can’t expect anybody to do that in this world, I mean that’s ridiculous. I’m just in a position where thankfully I can do that, and so I can take money out of it and say that’s not an issue for me, I don’t want it because I don’t need it, I’m already [supported?] so I would rather take any kind of financial gain off the table and just say, Hey, guys, my purest of intentions is just to share with you what they’re saying.
 
S: That takes half of the skepticism I have away, that I know it’s not money-motivated… [Asks about non-biological Greys, mentions Roswell alien that sounds similar – a puppet with a light consciousness. Tell us about your perception of these Greys.
Read that one more time for me, what she said?
 
S: “She said they were non-biological entities, almost like a puppet or doll, that was a receptable that housed a consciousness light being that worked the being.”
Yeah, okay I would say that only part about that that’s any different about these bodies and what she described is that we consider this a biological organic body and our understanding of what’s organic and what is biology and what can hold consciousness is only limited to what we can understand in this cycle – plain and simple. And I’m saying that there’s no difference between that being a non-biological entity holding a consciousness than you and me.
 
S: [Asks about Tall Whites/Nordics – were they wearing clothing?]
But the drone, the little Grey, we didn’t really finish that.
 
S: Sorry.
That’s okay. There are what we would consider more biological beings that we would think fit the Grey physique but then there are these drones. The drone is — I mean it has a consciousness in it and so it’s not like a computerized lifeform, it’s not like A.I. or something like that, okay, it’s – I don’t know how it thinks because in these bodies we’re influenced – our consciousness is influenced by our brain activity and our chemicals and blah blah blah, right, so — I don’t know what influence there could be or an influence that could be missing or y’know I don’t know how it’s different but there has to be, there has to be a difference there. I just don’t know that we can conceptualize what it is.
 
S: [Asks about military service – she has sent him lots of stuff and asked him not to share it, including a Veteran’s Affairs card – you’re a veteran, but people like the minutae, and saying that you’re a Gulf War veteran versus a veteran]
I did send you my DD214 [Certificate of Release or Discharge from Active Duty] that says that I was serving during the First Gulf War. Was I [—]? No.
 
S: [Asks why she doesn’t release all her background papers]
There’s a lot of information on there that could very easily be used to steal my identity. I know who has access to that information, at least who I gave it to, and I try to pick trustworthy people.
 
S: [So far what she has sent checks out.]
That’s what Nick Larkin was doing. He was an intel veteran that I felt that I could trust. We talked a little bit. He took the first step and provided me — as a gesture of good will — his information
 
S: [explains Nick Larkin on Twitter said he verified Anjali’s military background]
Right. People in Intel and people who are veterans will typically believe Nick, you know what I’m saying because it’s valor, it’s the ethics, we vouch for one another and we have to stay honest about it. He’s in a position where he has a lot of honor in his life, I guess.
 
S: [asks her to confirm she was a direct employee of the US government for the DIA and also a contractor for the DIA]
Yes.
 
S: [Some people claim you’re doing this for attention, control, narcissism, what do you say to those accusing you of starting a cult with similarities to Heaven’s Gate or other UFO cults]
I would say, Show me. Show me the similarities. I don’t see it, I’m sorry. I don’t even spend time in my own community that I started on Transcension Project on Reddit, you know, I don’t spend time there because of ridiculous claims like this, that it’s a cult, and just me going in and commenting or posting, it attracts immediate negative attention where people will start downvoting and messaging the mods and it’s just not worth it. So I don’t know of a cult that just says: “Go out and explore your own consciousness and meditate or pray, do it however you want, explore the nature of your own existence. And that’s a cult? And do it on your own? Y’know it’s like [laughs] do it on your own, Steven, don’t come to my house — unless you want to, I mean, you’re more than welcome, my door’s always open to you.
 
S: I’ll come visit you any time. So far.
Yes. But that doesn’t make it a cult. That makes me a friend.
 
S: Why you? [says her story is similar to others who say they’re bringing humanity messages from aliens] Why not me? Why not people in our live chat? Why not Wayne by himself? Why did they need you? If they’re so advanced couldn’t they just get their message out on their own?
Well a couple of things – number one, what they continually tell me is that I agreed to do this.
 
S: Like a soul contract concept?
I don’t know what a soul contract is. I don’t really talk about souls, I talk about consciousness expressing itself. I’m not saying that souls aren’t real, I’m just saying that I think that that’s a loaded word and I stay away from it. I don’t really know what we’re talking about when we say things like that, but I know what I mean when I say consciousness expressing. So they said that my consciousness agreed to do this, this is what I do, that I come near ends of cycles and deliver their message. That we’ve worked together many times. Do I know this? No, again, no. Do I have proof? Can I give you proof? No, of course not. Does it feel familiar? There’s something about it seems really spot on and all of this begins to happen very naturally at that point. It’s like the more that it resonates with me, the more time that I have with them, just the easier it is to communicate on their behalf. So I think that the first part is that this is what I do, and they say that everyone has their own job, their own thing that they need to be doing here and they have to remember who they are, everyone of us. We all have to remember who we are, why we’re here. And then a lot of those questions, people will stop spending so much time pointing at me and asking about me, and they’ll start asking more about themselves. Because, why are they talking to me? Well, they’re talking to everyone, so listen up, folks. That’s what I’m here to tell you. I’m not here to tell you that I’m special and I’m the only one. They’re talking through me because I can hear them. We have this connection and they want all of us to develop a conscious connection with one another that transcends language, that transcends races, that maybe even transcends species, I don’t know. Consciousness can communicate with consciousness. And if we are truly moving into a higher density, which may come with changes in dimensions or access to different time or space – something’s going to be different, I can’t understand exactly what I’m saying but I can see that if everything like that comes to pass then we’re really gonna need to be able to consciously communicate because that’s how they communicate. They don’t speak through speech like we do, they have transcended the need to speak.
 
S: Have you been in communication with Wayne during the three years that you were not – after the experience, and also you’ve had a lot of concern about his privacy and anonymity but how – this question is from Charlie Wiser – how does Wayne expect to remain anonymous or private after this proof that you’re gonna bring? Don’t you think that this is gonna be a media circus if it turns out that you’re correct?
I think that I don’t speak for Wayne or what he thinks, and I never will. He’s a very kind and generous human being and so is his wife, and I have a lot of respect for them and for their wishes. And at this time if they can’t see beyond disclosure, I’m not — it’s not my place to make them, and frankly it’s not the public’s place to make them either. You know, the beings are saying that this is consciousness disclosure as much as it is going to be a physical disclosure. That we are simply right now unprepared for the kind of contact that everybody is demanding that I give them right now.
 
S: I see people’s impatience. Have you been in contact with Wayne in the past three years? He is aware of this expedition and what you’re doing on the internet and all of this stuff, correct? 
I have been in contact with Wayne more recently. The time when I said that I had not been in contact with Wayne, that was correct, and now it’s changed, and yes I have been in contact with him. And that’s really all that I’m happy to say about Wayne, really, I would just prefer not to discuss that too much.
 
S: You describe this thing called conscious communication, which to me – correct me if I’m wrong – appeared to be a form of mental telepathy but it also included the communication of emotion and memories and experiences. Can you talk more about how they communicate with you with this thing that you call conscious contact?]
That’s right, okay, yeah, you described it really well actually. So, it’s definitely more than telepathy because it isn’t just reading minds, first of all, you’re not reading another mind. You’re in a flow with consciousness, okay. So there is already just — if you approach it as telepathy you’re kind of starting off on a foot that’s just gonna make it more difficult for you, because this really is about expanding your consciousness rather than having a “power” to do something. So, when they communicate, it’s like a picture that comes through, it’s like an image. And it has – I’ve explained it so many times but it has like all of this encoded information in it, but it’s an image. And you get the intention, the emotional state of the sender, and then any information that they’re trying to communicate to you. And it’s really – it’s much richer and more direct than our spoken language. Language divides us in a way that has hampered our conscious development as a race here, and they are trying to remove that barrier and get us into the consciousness experience itself, out of this idea that language is the primary way of communication. That there’s actually a much more advanced communication ability right there, it’s like an atrophied muscle that everyone has, everyone has the ability to do it. They’re saying that it’s just like we’ve just been asleep for a really long time, and so we’re waking up and we’re kind of stretching, we’re not jumping out of bed and going off to run a marathon after we’ve been in a coma for 20 years or whatever. You have to get out of bed slowly and so it’s kind of like we’re in a consciousness rehab right now and everybody’s waking up and starting to step out of bed and stretch a little bit. And that’s what this is about.
 
S: [Why are the aliens inside a mountain on your friend’s property?]
Well they’re – I don’t know why they’re in there. They’ve been in there — what they say is that they’ve been there for a long time, like before people were “owning” the mountain. There’s something about the area and I don’t really understand. I don’t really understand what they’re saying. I don’t know if they’re saying that it’s a geological thing, that that’s why they’re there, or – I don’t really understand. They’re showing something about the geology, maybe a magnetic field? [ponders] Something that’s different, it’s just a little different there, and so that’s why. That’s why they’re in that particular place but they have — I think we underestimate the amount of area that they may be inhabiting, quite frankly.
 
S: Do you get a sense of how long have they been there? How did they build the base?
[speaks while “listening” to beings] This – while it is a physical – it inhabits physical space, okay, inside that mountain, but that when you move from the tunnel into the base, that you transition from one place to the other, the here but the not here, it’s like – and I don’t know if that’s — I don’t wanna say the wrong things, like I said magnetic field and I’m probably people will go, “Oh that’s—” I don’t know, I’m not a scientist!
 
S: [jokes] No magnetic fields there, we checked.
I don’t know, I’m not a scientist, I’m just trying to explain that there’s something different going on there and that they inhabit – they have a physical presence that they can [shakes head]. I don’t know why. They’ve been there for a very long time. That’s what they’re saying, they’ve been there for a very long time.
 
S: [What materials was the base made of?]
I can say that there were very smooth edges, like I just don’t remember anything sharp, like sharp corners, it was very smooth, very sterile, austere I guess I would say.
 
S: Clinical?
Yeah!
 
S: [speculates that super advanced beings would be creative, artistic]
Well yes, yes, you know, I don’t know if you’ve ever been inside an operating room – you know there’s not a lot of artwork hanging up in an operating room, because it makes just more area for dust to collect and it becomes more difficult to keep it clean. There was a clinical sterility about the place that makes me feel like it may be – at least where I was – that I was inside of a medical part of it. It was very clean, there wasn’t artistic expression, it didn’t feel like that was the point. I didn’t feel like I was in a museum or a coffee house, everything’s smooth.
 
S: Injection molded? No corners, no rivets, no joiners or fasteners?
That’s right, I didn’t see anything like that, in fact moving from the rock of the tunnel into the base, I cannot see, I’ve tried and tried and tried and I just can’t see anything that looks like it – like it’s a physical transition like you would expect, like a door, like a pocket door that’s gonna slide closed behind me or something.
 
S: People say “She got that from Star Trek” – sometimes people nitpick, and I do too.
Or like the grocery store and you step on – whatever you do and the door opens, I mean, we have so many examples of automatic doors I don’t know why that would be the hang-up, like that seems a little silly.
 
S: Why are multiple races of aliens cooperating and building a base? Did you see their craft? How did they get here?
I didn’t see any kind of craft. I don’t remember any of their craft when I’ve seen them since the day that I was there in their base, when they came to my house. I don’t remember – I remember other times of being at the base, but I don’t remember a craft is what I’m trying to say. The doors – they were a different color, first of all, than the rest. The walls and floors were all the same, they were like a creamy tannish smooth surface. I didn’t touch it so I can’t tell you exactly what it was but it was incredibly smooth. And then the door was a metallic color. The floor in the other room was more metallic and it came – the room that I [—] and the table that came up out of the floor, it came up, it was silver. It was silver, like the ground and the table came up.
 
S: I applaud your courage for coming here and answering these questions. [He has questions from other skeptical show hosts: Scott Browne asks why didn’t you take pictures with your phone while in the base for 6 hours, or when aliens physically visited you at home, and use that for evidence?]
First of all, I didn’t have my phone out for 6 hours using it as a flashlight, that was only while I was in the tunnel. I have no recollection of ever putting it back in my pocket but that’s where I found it. And I can’t explain that to anyone. That doesn’t mean that I’m lying, it means that I can’t explain that, I don’t know. My sense is that they are in control of that, that I didn’t have a choice. And how is that different for when we go back? Well because they’re saying that now is the time for disclosure, so they will provide that evidence.
 
S: The ones visiting your home won’t let you take pictures?
[slowly shakes head] No, mm-mm, no.
 
S: But they’re going to let you when you go back to the base?
Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. In fact what they’re sending is that — hold on. [receives communication]
 
S: You’re telling me that you’re talking to aliens right now?
Well, look, I’m gonna get a lot of crap for this, but listen to me, they really don’t like – I’ve used it in the past, and I use it when just quoting conversations, but they said that “aliens” is a slur.
 
S: I saw that so I apologize, what should I refer to them as? “Higher beings”?
Or “beings”, y’know. Just whatever you’re comfortable with. “People” is fine too. They’re different people than we are. But yes, so like I said.
 
S: So they consider “alien” a racist term?
Yes, because it has a lot of human connotation with it – we created the term, we created a lot of imagery around it, and we use it, we have a very divisive stand regarding what that means when we start talking about nations and borders. There’s just not a situation where it has a positive connotation and they just want all of us to use less divisive language, less divisive thinking and to think more collectively about how to treat each other, I guess.
 
S: [Q from Scott Browne: he’s been critical of you on Twitter – I respect you for turning the corner and saying you’ll answer questions – it makes me believe you’re telling the truth about much of your story, and at least you believe the experience was real. Scott asks: if they teleported Wayne back to his living room multiple times, why would he need to excavate a tunnel into the mountain? If it’s a secret base, and they don’t want anyone to know about it, why would they allow him to excavate a tunnel?]
Clearly they knew what they were doing because he did excavate a tunnel, and I went inside of it and walked into their base. So why did he do that? Because they clearly wanted him to. Why didn’t anyone find out about it? Because they didn’t want anyone to find out about it. I don’t think we really understand what we’re dealing with. I have to tell you that one of things that they said that I still haven’t – I don’t have a grip on it like I would like to – is what you think is going on here isn’t what’s really going on. That has stuck with me and it’s why – everybody thinks I’m so positive about everything. Uh-uh. I have been told flat out that what we think is going on is not what is happening here, and that through this consciousness awakening that we have, we will begin to see what’s really going on. I don’t [shrugs] – I’m along for the ride just like everybody else is here. I’m having the same human experience everybody else is.
 
S: It’s slightly different because you’re actually claiming to be in contact with the aliens in multiple ways, right – consciousness contact and they’re physically visiting you.
Yeah. That’s right, that’s right.
 
S: [Rich Giordano from GUFON: Many have promised but no one has ever brought proof of aliens to the world. Does she really believe she will be able to do this, and how will she avoid the government shutting her down, maybe killing her? Do you think you might be in danger? Do you think you can pull this off and bring us the proof?
I think that all I can do is trust what the beings are saying, that this is going to happen, until I see movement otherwise. I know that the public is quite critical of how things have gone, but things have actually gone quite well. And I think that it’s just something that I am here on your show, Steven, that we’re able to have this conversation. How many people are going to start wondering about the message that these beings are telling us? About them actually being there, what they’re communicating to us. That sounds to me like a consciousness awakening. And I’m kind of along for the ride with everybody else. So I just have to trust that they’re being honest with me and back that up with me being honest with you and everyone else about what they’re saying, and being honest about my own sense of vulnerability with this because I have put my entire life on the line for what they’re saying. I will see this through, and I really do hope that it’s going to come out to the outcome they’ve shown me because I just – I don’t know what happens after that, you know, otherwise. I know that other people have claimed that they’ve been really misled. I just really hope that’s not what’s happening here. I don’t feel like that’s what’s happening here.
 
S: You talk about the beings and their interest in our free will, and this one is from Charlie Wiser who brought this to me, and I kind of agree with her. [NOTE: This question was actually from mamaofkitties] They’re benevolent, here to help us, but some other statements you’ve made contradict that, some aliens had a problem with the human race but changed their minds. Can you talk about that in more detail?
See this is why Charlie is blocked, I mean, or has been, repeatedly, because there’s a lot of intellectual dishonesty. The people that I end up blocking on social media, it’s not because they disagree, it’s because when I answer them, they still call me a liar. It’s like I give them the answer, they ask me a question, I answer it, and they say liar! Well what – you know – there’s not much else I can do, I’ve just answered your question. Well give us evidence. It’s like this circular thing that I just can’t deal with. So um, you’re gonna have to repeat Charlie’s question, I’m sorry, I got triggered.
 
S: repeats the question
This is one of those situations where in the beginning when I first started sharing my story in March that I couldn’t remember very much. As the months have gone on, and I’ve had more and more contact, I would say that I have a better understanding of what I experienced and I have tried numerous times to correct that. So in the beginning what I understood was: “Hurry up, the Four are coming, y’know, they were here, they left.” There were things that I got right about them, okay. What I understand, my more full understanding of it is this – that there are members of this council and everyone has a role to play, and the Four that left, it’s like they came back because this is the time where they’re on deck, this is their stage of the game or of the cycle. And so they’re here to facilitate their part, their role in what comes next. And I don’t expect anyone to just blindly believe what I’m saying. I’m saying that this is what they’re telling me, and I’m saying that they want to have open contact with humanity. And I’m saying that they’re saying that we’re coming to an end of a couple of different cycles – that one is a change of the Earth and the other is a cycle of incarnation and reincarnation that we’ve been doing here for a very long time, and that’s just – it’s like time is coming up, okay, is really what it is. It’s like we’re living in a temporal kind of existence that’s been created for us to have this experience, and we’re moving through that. And so it has a beginning and it has an end in the cycle, not a beginning and an end of consciousness. It’s like a beginning and an end of dinner – you’re not born when you start your breakfast and you die at the end of it. You start breakfast and then you finish breakfast and you do something else, right? Well that’s what they’re showing. They’re not saying we’re extinguishing consciousness. They’re saying that we’re moving through a cycle, that these Four are coming to facilitate the choices that we are making right now. And they kind of have an audience. And I don’t know why, I don’t know if this is their first time doing this, or if it’s because these two cycles are coming — like there’s so much that’s happening at the same time where we have the Earth that’s changing, its consciousness, its density is rising, and humans are supposed to be making this consciousness change. Um — [long sigh]
 
S: Take breath, I’m sorry, we didn’t give you a break or anything. I’m less skeptical, more willing to give you the benefit of the doubt and I’m getting beat up for that.
I know!
 
S: Will you take questions from the chat?
I don’t have any problems with that but before we do that I want to finish what I was saying about –
 
S: Sorry.
It’s okay, there’s only so much time and I understand. I feel like it’s really important for us to get this – it’s been very difficult for me to determine how to address this. Do I go back into that initial post – as soon as I go in and make a huge edit regarding the Four, that becomes a point of ridicule and scrutiny. So I decided to keep it there, but I don’t really know that it’s the smartest thing. So the reason that they were saying that we had to hurry, it wasn’t because the Four were coming to destroy humanity. I wasn’t catching – I wasn’t understanding everything. One thing was, that they were trying to say is that there are some big Earth changes coming. There’s this end of this cycle coming, just what I’ve already been explaining all night, okay. That those things, I was like tying them to the Four coming. I didn’t understand what they were saying to me at the time. I couldn’t quite recall it. So I thought that they were coming in some kind of vengeful way. But the urgency is that our conscious awareness as a race right now in this world, as an experiment, is really just not going very well. The veil is very heavy and the illusion is very very convincing. And so typically at this point they’re saying that there would be more people who are awake. We should have more conscious awakeness than we have, and that’s the urgency because this all matters, like something way down the road, that could be thousands of years, I don’t even understand, okay, because again it’s outside of our concept of time. But it matters in the end how many of us are ready right now to transcend. And I don’t understand why that matters, but it does. And so that’s why they were like, “Hurry up! Like you’ve gotta remember what you’re doing here because you have a job to do. Hurry up, they’re coming, we’re getting to the end of the cycle.” I hope this helps, it’s the best I can do, it is my honest-to-goodness answer. There’s nothing else that I can say about it. I can’t be any clearer. I can’t be any clearer. They have a job to do and that’s why they’re here.
 
S: [chat questions] Can the beings confirm if Elon Musk is a part of disclosure?
What my understanding has been is that he has contact, he has conscious contact, that he’s had contact. I mean, don’t get too excited, there’s a pretty good chance so has Bezos and look at the two of them, right, you can’t say, “Wow it’s so enlightening.” Again, we all make our choices and we can choose to try to do what’s gonna be the best for everyone or choose to just really buy into this illusion of what we’ve created here and all the things that we think are so important but keep us so separated. And boy, are we gonna be surprised when we find out we’re not alone and that there are actually so many other beings that are sharing this space with us that we can’t even see.
 
S: I hope so, that would be a cooler world to live in than the one we actually live in.
Absolutely.
 
S: Do you think they mean us any harm?
I can say that the beings that I have met mean us no harm. I’m not saying that there aren’t being that exist out there that don’t mean us harm. I can probably name you a bunch of humans out there that mean a lot of people harm. I just don’t know, I just don’t know. I think that — They say that we have to be mindful of our thoughts and our intentions, that those manifest into actions. They materialize in our physical world. They explain there’s two kinds of energy, one is like the light that is consciousness, and then the other is like energy that manifests as matter, and that that’s what we do here. So that when we’re all collectively trying to think about the betterment of the planet, and the betterment of humanity, then we’re raising that and we’re manifesting something that is positive and fertile, I guess I would say. That can be – that we can grow from rather than when we all operate from a place of “I am the most important, my needs come before everyone else’s needs, and I will cooperate with you, Steven, as long as us cooperating together – we can be on a team together but as long as my needs are still what I want.” There’s a different kind of thinking there and so we have to be really careful about how we think about contact and how we think about consciousness and attracting energy to us. For those people who meditate, they will put out positive intentions. When people pray they’re putting out positive intentions. So they’re saying that when you operate in that mindset, that you’re like awakening your consciousness.
 
S: Eric Stitt asks how can we take your subjective experience and turn it into objective evidence?
I would suggest, and I mean this – I get no monetary gain whatsoever – I would go over to Reddit and go to the Transcension Project and join that community. The people there are all asking the same questions and we have people who have been lifelong meditators to people who are just new to the idea that there could be something beyond our consciousness than this one experience. It runs the gamut. But what’s really neat about it is that it’s becoming like a – it’s a community of resources and support. They have a lot more time and energy to work directly with people, individually. If you want to know what is the very first step to awakening, I would say that it is to show some serious humility about what the nature of our understanding is, of where we came from, who we are, and why we’re here. And to really seek to understand that instead of thinking that you already have an answer, say I don’t know and I really wanna know, I really truly – and commit to that. And you commit to it in a positive way without fear and without till intention. Just be good humans.
 
S: Xopha asks her to go into more detail about the mantid’s head, it’s mouth and texture.
I was actually, when you said Eric Stitt is a really good artist, I’m an artist but I’m not a portrait artist and this has been a real issue for me, how to get these drawn. I really would love to be able to work with someone who could really — what do you call it, that kind of art, like police sketches, what do you call that, Steven?
 
S: Like a composite?
Yes, there you go. I’d love to work with someone who could try and –
 
S: Reach out to him, he’s the best. Asks what her brings think of DeLonge, Elizondo and he current disclosure narrative, are they in contact?
The beings don’t have like, when they said what do they think of them, they are very compassionate and supportive of all of us. So have they reached out to those people? Yes, but they’ve also — they’re saying that they’re reaching out to all of us. Are these gentlemen being motivated? Is the current narrative being motivated by their contact? Possibly, I can’t say for sure, I’ve never met any of them, but they seem like very lovely gentlemen.
 
S: How does this cycle relate to the ancient Indian concept of the yugas?
I couldn’t really tell you, I’m not versed on the ancient Indian concept of the yugas. It sounds like it’s related to a cycle, I don’t know. What I can tell you is this. They’re saying that a lot of our ancient texts – let me rephrase – the ancient texts that we have, that they have inspired a lot of the prophecy, a lot of the explanations, they have inspired those books, and that those stories have been contaminated by us, essentially that we have created – we have this need to deify because we feel lost if we don’t. We feel lost because we have been thinking of ourselves as individuals that we have confused our body and our sensory experience with who we are, and so we have felt very separate and – so much so that deification is how we deal with it They’re saying that not only are the stories always told through the lens of the culture and society of the time, and their knowledge, but that it’s also contaminated by deification.
 
S: Erica Lukes asks what her role was in Intel?
I did a lot of different things – human factors intelligence which is essentially doing research on state and non-state leaders just so we have a better understanding of how to influence their decision making to be more congruent with US interests. Everything that I did, my charter was all non-domestic. Totally foreign. Totally in support of the war on terror is what it all comes down to if we have to simplify it to a sentence, it’s in support of the war on terror.
 
S: [asks again to describe the mantis]
As far as texture, my recollection is that it’s pretty smooth. The head is rather bulbous in the back, there’s no hair on the body, very spindly body, beautiful, very thin and lanky. But specific shoulders, you know what I’m saying? For as different as their bodies are, there are all of these very universal things – there’s eyes, and the eyes were larger and set off to the side a little bit more than ours. The face came down into more of a point, but it was quite bulbous in the back, you know. And very small mouth, just – I don’t know how [exasperated] I don’t know how to explain something like this.
 
S: [He’s heard of 6 foot tall preying mantis insect aliens]
For this one more like pushing 8 feet, is what my best recollection is — quite quite tall. The skin was definitely a lavender, a purple, light lavender-y color. Everything — I want to just reiterate that there were no — I wasn’t seeing geometrics and paisleys and tracers with my hands or any of the things people claim that they see. And I also wasn’t in a fetal position having just vomited from being dosed with some kind of DMT or ayahuasca, you know, unbeknownst to me. Everyone that I’ve ever heard who’s been on those experiences, it’s something that happens pretty quickly, the whole thing is up and over and they’re not up walking around and doing things for hours. So, I can’t really tell you exactly – I don’t know how to explain how they looked, I don’t remember the hands, y’know, that’s been a question. I don’t remember. I wish I did. I can tell you that I was in such awe when I saw them that it was like — it was maybe the most magnificent moment, even moreso than turning that corner and seeing — oh my gosh, it’s real, they’re actually really standing there. I thought that was mindblowing enough, but to find out that the being that I had been talking to that I thought was about 4 foot tall was actually more like 8 foot tall, was pretty darn mindblowing.
 
S: Wayne excavated the tunnel but didn’t see the base until he took her. How is that possible?
I never said that. I never said that he couldn’t see the base. I said that to his recollection, he has never been in the base, that’s what I had said. And that when he stepped into it, we were immediately moved back to his home under that place where he said he would be. So, no, he didn’t say that he’d never seen the base, in fact what he said was I found their base and I wanna take you to see them.
 
S: Describe the teleport experience, what did you feel, see, or experience?
Nothing, I saw, felt, experienced absolutely nothing. Okay, I’m standing there, and the smaller Grey is here beside me, the Tall Whites are right here [behind her] and I’m convinced that they’re security, I really am convinced of that, that they’re some kind of security. They all dress the same, completely silent, they didn’t speak to me, they didn’t interact with me. My human understanding is that kind of behavior makes me think, Oh, it’s like a security detail. Anyway, so I’m standing there, we’ve just walked down the hall, it’s very quiet, nobody’s talking because everything is happening consciously. So the only sound that was there was the sound of our own movement. And as soon as Wayne stepped into the base, it was like I blinked and when I opened my eyes we were standing beneath this arch in his home. And it was like literally like a split second is how it felt. I have no conscious memory of anything, no strange sensations. It was so discombobulating, if you can imagine, like right now if you blinked and suddenly you’re somewhere completely different. The very first thing I did was I put my hands on my head and I screamed, “What the f is going on?”
 
S: That’s something I’d probably do as well.
Oh my god, yeah.
 
S: [Asks about the timeline of the expedition, the team members, and if the timeline is on track for the end of the year as promised]
My understanding from them is that everything is still right on track. What kind of evidence? My gosh, well, we have so many different kinds of equipment that I’m not a scientist so it’s really hard for me to describe the different kinds of equipment that we will have, but we will have obviously audio, video. I don’t know about livestreaming only because I just don’t know, I just don’t know how to make it happen, okay, I’m not saying it can’t happen, it’s just that I don’t know how to make it happen.
 
S: I can come and do that for you, right from my phone. I’ll make sure I have a phone that will work in that area. I’m just putting it out there, just letting you know.
If you don’t have reception, Steven, what do you do? How do you livestream without--
 
S: I’d have to check in advance the carrier covered that area.
Well that’s what I’m trying to say, darling, is that –
 
S: Or put a wi-fi booster up from Wayne’s house and I could use his wi-fi, if he has internet.
[nods and ignores the comment] Um, okay, so anyway, I’m sorry, remind me what the question was again.
 
S: Are you on track? I would think there should be some kind of cultural exchange, such as our history books or Bible.
They aren’t [—] that. They don’t need us to show them anything. This is all part of the illusion. [laughs] They don’t need us to show them anything.
 
S: Will they be giving us scientific knowledge? Any goodies?
My understanding is that they’re going to help to facilitate our – us getting through this next cycle. I think there are things happening that we’re gonna need their help with, and it sounds like that’s why they’re here, and so what does that look like? I don’t know because that’s above my grade level, you know what I’m saying? I don’t know, I don’t know.
 
S: They haven’t communicated to you what they’re going to give us or share?
It’s not – I think that we’re misunderstanding. They’re not here to share technology, they’re here to help us because we’re facing some difficult times and I don’t know what that assistance looks like. They do not show me that, but it’s not a matter of specific technology, I just don’t know what it is.
 
S: If the beings want the best for us, did they try to heal you and Wayne?
I do not know, with respect to Wayne and his health, what that relationship has been like. I can tell you that they took me out of my body, they took my consciousness out of this body and I was in a light that was like mist. I don’t know if you experienced this, Steven, but it was like literally if you could imagine the faintest mist but it’s all just little itty-bitty pieces of light.
 
S: I may have seen something like that tripping – with respect. I was a rock guy, I did everything.
[laughs] That’s okay. This was like – as I was laying supine on my back, the light was - it was like a triangular light that was – it wasn’t like it was dispersed everywhere, it was very controlled and within a specific area where I was inside of it, okay. They used it to look at what was going with me, I don’t know what all they did with it, they did tell me about a couple of medications that they wanted me to get off of because it was causing seizures, and they were, they were lowering my threshold. We found out that a couple of them together lowered my threshold too much so that I was having more [—] seizures which was making my short-term memory more difficult, so they pointed that out and I did actually later get off of both of those. And they said that there was something that was wrong with my genetics, like my DNA, there was a DNA issue, and they couldn’t really fix that, they could help me with my energy but they couldn’t fix the genetic problem with this body. So I mean I just accept that. They’re not here to – my understanding is they’re saying that part of the third density experience is that they don’t interfere, that they’re here to facilitate the cycle that we choose to be in, and to prevent us from basically destroying it and destroying ourselves in the process, while allowing us to experience and learn what we’re wanting to do. And so that’s where free will really comes in, is they don’t interfere, they try to guide us but they don’t interfere unless we’re at a point where it could be extinction level for the planet or the people that inhabit it, and so they just wanna help prevent some of the mistakes we’ve made and help us fix it, I think.
 
S: [Asks about aliens using humans in experiments? How are you sure they’re not deceiving you?]
I think first of all if they wanted to conquer Earth they could just do it. They certainly wouldn’t need to play games with me. It seems to me they’re really trying to be pretty gentle with us, they’re using soft gloves. The experience is incredibly overwhelming and they just want us to be consciously prepared for that contact. Now as far as Greys and Mantids using humans in reproductive experiments, that was the question, right? Okay, I don’t know who those beings are--
 
S: So those are different from the beings you experienced?
Absolutely, I didn’t experience anything like that, but I’m not saying that anyone else didn’t, that that’s not what they experienced. I believe them, I just don’t know who or why, to what end, I don’t know, I really, I’m sorry. They just say that there’s a polarity in everything in this cycle, you know we’re in this cycle of polarity and balance, and we’re imbalanced. That our polarity is very imbalanced right now.
 
S: Did you get a sense of where are they from?
My understanding is that our – I’m sorry, hold on just a moment [receiving communication] – um, that they’re at a level of development that they have transcended--
 
S: There’s that word again.
I know! They’ve transcended the things that limit us and our current understanding, and that there are places that are physical locations where, for lack of a better way of putting it, the veil is thinner — or like doors. Doors can open, or like, it’s almost like, if you can imagine – like uh [sighs] almost like a spider web, okay, just imagine like you’re walking – this is funny, okay, please just bear with me and this helps maybe this me describing what they’re showing me and my process for trying to translate it. So they showed what looks almost like a spider web between two trees, but it’s not an actual web, like we can’t physically feel it but we walk through it and when we go though it, like on the other side it’s different. It may look like nothing has changed but it’s actually here but not here, it’s like another place. And so there are geological and physical locations that allow movement from one place to another quite quickly. And that’s an ability that they have. So at this point they’re not from anywhere any more than I’m from Jacksonville, Florida, okay. I don’t consider myself from Jacksonville anymore, I’ve been around long enough now and lived in many different places and done many things, do you understand what I’m saying? And so they’re showing me they’re not from anywhere anymore.
 
S: Can we get an interview with Wayne to back up your experience?
Right um and they want me to say that I’m not trying to prove anything, that this is a soft disclosure that they’re doing, and that we are to – I know this is very dissatisfying and I understand that and I hear you Steven, I get it.
 
S: Yeah it’s a little disappointing.
I know, right? But that’s what they’re saying, that this is a soft disclosure and that you have to prepare your mind, prepare your hearts and minds, prepare yourself consciously for contact. Stop asking for them to just come out and walk out of the base and say “Hey, here we are” because we’re not ready for it right now. They’re saying “Get yourselves ready, get yourself ready.” I’m sorry, I’m seeing the links pop up too.
 
S: Somebody’s mentioning the links to your conference, your documentary trailer, and Jimmy Church appearance.
I don’t have a documentary, I have made that very clear. I do not have a documentary. I did not hire anyone--
 
S: Well there’s a trailer though
That’s not mine, that has nothing to do with me. He did that independently and that’s okay cuz he is actually, he’s trying to do – Tyler does great work, he does great work. I am not — there’s no contract between us and I’m not affiliated with his project. He’s trying to do a disclosure project for everyone and he’s trying to do a legit documentary. I was not happy with the naming it Anjali and I told him that I felt like he had misrepresented to me what he had initially told me his intentions were, and he backed that up – he backed off and said “I’m gonna try and do something more widespread.” I have not had a single, haven’t signed any contracts, I’m not making any money, these are people out there doing their work for this disclosure, they have their own mission, and if there’s something I can do to facilitate that, like Steven, I’m here with you because you’re just trying to understand better what’s going on, I’m just trying to understand better what’s going on.
 
S: I’m glad we did tonight. [Asks about George Knapp who claims to be emailing her without response]
I guess I didn’t realize that that was happening. I know that George and I have not really had a lot of contact, and so that’s all it is, I’m just one person with hundreds and hundreds of people every day trying to reach out, and honestly, I’m chronically ill and very tired a lot, I just haven’t gotten to it.
 
S: Why did Anjali deflect about her psychedelic escapades when she used to laugh about it on Reddit? Charlie Wiser has the proof on her website.
I don’t know what the point is, I’ve already – I don’t really understand. I have already said that I was not using psychedelics, I’ve already said that I was an experienced psychedelic user, even when I made that comment on Reddit, and if you look at the comment where I was encouraging people to meditate, I was actually engaging with someone who was saying that you can have a complete spiritual awakening with psychedelics, and I was trying to argue with them that psychedelics is a temporary state of mind and really you have to – it’s a daily practice if you wanna get meditation as a practice, you know, mindfulness, I mean it’s all out there guys, and they weren’t taking it, and so that’s when I completely overstated my experience and said that I had a deeper experience with psychedelics than I had, only so that I could say, look I already know, I’ve been there, I’ve been exactly where you are and I’m telling you, it has to be a daily mindful practice. So my heart was in the right place. Did I do it properly? I don’t know, you’d have to ask that person. Maybe. Maybe they started meditating, I have no idea. But I’m not going to keep apologizing for it, I’ve already explained it. This is why it gets so frustrating and why I ended up walking because when I explain it they don’t believe the explanation, and they don’t have to – but to continue to say that’s not true, it’s not fair, I’m doing the best I can.
 
S: [Are you prepared for this whole thing falling apart? What if you go there, the aliens left, the cave caved in, and you can’t provide any proof?] How are you gonna handle that?
I’m just gonna have to handle it like everything else. What do I do? At that point – I am putting my full self out there for everyone, and I’m trusting the experience that I had and the communication that I’ve had with these beings. I’m trusting this process. Is there a possibility that we could get there and it’s something goes terribly awry and I’m not able to bring back that evidence? I suppose. I mean anything’s possible, right?
 
S: My concern is this could be very humiliating for you if it doesn’t go the way that you hope.
Oh, I don’t think that I can be humiliated out of this because personally I feel like I’m being super 100% above the board and I’m not afraid to answer any questions and to submit to--
 
S: Well we’ve seen that tonight, I hope that helps with some of your critics
And it’s okay, if it doesn’t, but how will I respond? I hope really well. I hope I will take it like I’ve taken everything else in my life which is--
 
S: It’s not just you who would be disappointed.
Oh, I know.
 
S: The fact you set a hard deadline, we can’t wait to see what happens. That’s how I feel about this right now.
You and me both. You and me both. So there – I feel like it’s going to go the way that they’re saying. If it doesn’t, I guess it’ll just be another day, just like – we’ll just have to figure out what the hell happened. And I don’t know what that looks like, it’s certainly not what I want, clearly, and it would be a very difficult time, not just for me and my life but for a lot of people because they’re having – everybody just has a sense of – times are really difficult for people, and the best thing that we can always do with every moment, of every day, is to decide what we can learn from what we’re experiencing. And I guess that that would be the only healthy way, besides probably checking myself into a hospital, you know.
 
S: It would be a huge blow after this huge build-up.
I honestly — if something like that were to happen I would probably find a retreat somewhere with some shaman or some wise spiritual leader who could help me get my head back on straight from such a terrible disappointment, and not just a disappointment but a shatter of my ability to trust my own experience.
 
S: [Thanks her, says he’s gone from being completely dismissive to being able to say: the mountain is real, the friends she discussed are real, her education is real, her employment background is real and her military service is real. Apologizes for being dismissive but he’s seen too many people who turned out to have fake credentials.]
Why do they do that? I mean what do they — how—?
 
S: Money! [says he waited to vet her background thinking someone else would and he wouldn’t have to]
I understand, really Steven, it’s okay. Skepticism--
 
S: There’s a place for all of use. You gotta have the skeptical guy to ask the hard questions. Otherwise people just talk and we don’t learn as much… I promised I’d be respectful and I hope that I was
You were, I would come back any time.
 
S: Thanks for having the courage to come here when a lot of people said you wouldn’t do it.
Thank you, that’s right, and I’ll come back again if I need to, and listen, good luck, hopefully your listeners and your supporters will go easy on you. Thank you.
 
S: Hope you come back, especially if you find those aliens, I want the exclusive interview once you find those aliens.
[laughs] We’ll talk.

Nov 2, 2021 Aliengirl111 with various guests

Questions for Anjali from various guests are in italics.
[1:58:00] Anjali joins the podcast and is asked about Lazar.
 
First I want to say – please don’t worry about this, but it’s pronounced AN-jali. [Talks about Lazar, she has compassion for him and his steadfastness for not being able to give the evidence people want, and she can’t say if he’s lying.]
 
Steven Cambian: I’d love an update on what’s going on with this expedition that you’re planning, how many people you have so far that are confirmed participants and that sort of thing.
 
Um [clears throat] – you know, I don’t think that this is the platform that I want – I’m so sorry, Amy…
 
Amy: No hard feelings, it’s not the platform for everyone!

No no no, I’m not saying this isn’t the platform that I wanna be on. I do. I don’t know that this is the platform that I want to discuss the expedition. I have just been in California for the last 2 weeks, and I just arrived home last night. I need some time to get my thoughts together. And that’s what I have say about that. I know that’s very hard for everyone to hear, but I’m a pretty deliberate decision-maker and I’m fresh home, and just need a little time.
 
What I can tell you – I can tell you some things, okay. It’s not that I’m not willing to discuss, it’s just that I don’t wanna be looking at a calendar of events and getting into some really specific details. But what I can tell you is that it was a very difficult two weeks. [clears throat] I was not able, I have told everyone that I would give complete transparency and so that’s what I will continue to do. I traveled to California with the intention of getting on Wayne’s property and confirming access to the tunnel was still there. Locating it myself, getting my eyes on it and making contact with the beings if the tunnel was available to me, right? So I had a well-known individual that I don’t want to discuss, I don’t want to name who that was, but had offered to go to the property with me, to make that first verification so that we could then determine exactly how to go forward with the expedition. Like, what all – how deep was this going to need to go, okay, how difficult was this really going to be? Try to reassess everything and what to do with the information that we would receive during that contact.
 
Jeremy Rys: You said it’s a couple of miles’ hike out to the site, right from base camp? [talks about possibly having to camp out, etc.]
 
Right, right, so y’know there are – you can imagine just the logistical piece to any kind of expedition in the Mojave desert. So that has its own set of issues that we have to deal with. And then there’s--
 
Steven: You have to be prepared to do any kind of hiking in a desert environment, you have to be geared up, you have to have a great deal of safety equipment with you. Because anything can happen out there – rattlesnakes…
 
I myself, I’ve been very fortunate that I was never struck by a rattlesnake. [Talks about rattlesnakes striking in the evening or night.] So, time of day is a concern, of course, for anyone when you’re in the desert.
 
There’s also mountain lions and aliens out there.
 
Right, I was going to say, y’know, you have this primary concern and you have a secondary issue, set of issues that you have to deal with – psychologically and physically, um, and I’m here to tell you that it is a pretty earth-moving experience, um that even though I had been having this conscious experience and even though now I have recollection of periods of contact throughout my life, some that I can either provide reports of craft being in the area at the time and other eye witnesses who saw it on the site, who said I wasn’t there. It’s quite something to have all this recollection at this time, but at that moment when I met them and we were having this conversation— Honey could you get me some water?

People talking about having a drum circle out there.
 
I would love that. I have sat with so many drums and been to many wacipis across the country there. So divine. That would be amazing.
 
Alien Addict [Oli]: Have you been approached by anybody from TTSA or has Dr Greer been in touch?
 
No. No. Um, no.
 
If I was one of those guys, seeing as what you witnessed, I would be all over that.
 
Mm-hmm. Absolutely not. I haven’t been contacted at all. They ignore me like I’m just telling a fantasy story, or they’re waiting to see an outcome. Or, they already know. Those are our three options, aren’t they?
 
Steven: Or they’ve figure out they’re not going to profit from this, so they’re not interested.
 
That could be, and as much as it hurts my heart, I understand to a degree because we’re living in a world that requires currency to live, and without it you die pretty quick, that’s just the nature of it. And so I understand people trying to protect what they have, what they already have. It’s a really uncertain economic environment and everyone feels it, and if you’re not feeling it then you need to be helping everyone who is. Sorry, I didn’t mean to go off on a tangent.
 
Anyway, so what I was saying is that it’s hard enough to plan the expedition, but then to plan having the burden of knowing that everyone who’s coming will believe that they’re psychologically prepared for the experience, but no matter what you think, it’s gonna turn your world upside-down. Even confirming what you knew was true is – it does something in your head and what it does is, it shatters reality a little bit, in a way, where you all of a sudden see things in a very different way and it can be pretty difficult of a transition to make.
 
So anyway, so I say all of this to tell you that in the 2 weeks – from the time that I arrived, or left my home, and I always have to go by ground, and so by the time that I arrived, within 24 hours, 48 hours of being there, Wayne had decided that he was going to revoke access for everyone including me, to the property. And I’m telling you that because it happened, and what happens next is the part where I have to think very carefully because I realize that I cannot take no for an answer and I realize that this is bigger than me and my comfort level with the public who will no doubt chide me and berate me. It’s already happening right now on Twitter, I guarantee you, I don’t even need to look.
 
Oli: So Wayne has said that no one’s going near it?
 
Nobody’s going near it.
 
Including yourself?
 
Including me. He wants nothing – They want nothing to do with it. Nothing.
 
Steven: Anjali, does this have anything to do with – a lot of people don’t know about some things going on behind the scenes that maybe you and I are privy to. For people that don’t understand, there is at least one television producer who has — I don’t know if he has done it, but has told me that he’s gonna be flying very expensive drones over the property looking for the entrance to the tunnel and things like that. So there has been pressure on this Wayne and his privacy may be in jeopardy. Is this a factor in some of his decision-making here?
 
Yes, this is a – I would say that it wasn’t even the straw that broke the camel’s back, it was like the bolder you threw through the glass ceiling. It was always so fragile, it was always a fragile situation. We’re talking about someone who is – they’re very private people. They’re quiet people, they’re kind, they’re trusting of others, but they’re very hesitant about anyone wanting on their property in the first place, okay. And I don’t want to speak for them but at some point I’m going – but at some point I will have to. I can tell you that there were several factors that led up to his moment and I’ve been trying – very difficult to do so – but I’ve been trying to defuse the build-up of their feeling of their personal and their private lives being threatened by the way that they put it: freaks. Because of the way that they’ve been behaving. They were watching everything on social media. Everything. They’ll see this.
 
Oli: Can I just ask, before you revealed this to the public, that you were gonna reveal the cave with the aliens in, did you tell Wayne that you were gonna go and reveal it to the general public? Was he on board then?
 
Okay so this is the accurate calendar of chronological events, okay. The higher beings – and when I say higher, please don’t think I’m using any kind of religious term whatsoever. It’s all about the density of consciousness that they have achieved over their span of existence and so it’s not a judgement, they’re not in positions of judgement and authority, it’s not that kind of relationship at all. But they are in a different position where they have a different kind of sight than we have, that has been intentionally strangled here, it’s what’s called the veil – everybody hears about it, it’s intentional, to create this forgetfulness and to allow for an awakening experience and self-realization. Um…
 
Oli: Did Wayne know you were going--
 
Yes, I am getting to that, I am, believe it or not. [She never gets to it, believe it or not.] So, having this experience and having this ongoing contact for several weeks, they were prodding me to say, y’know, “Let’s get a team together, bring them here. Let’s provide the proof, it’ll be okay.” We had this ongoing conversation where I was very reluctant and I’m almost to be frank panic-contacting Wayne and Trisha because I feel nearly compelled to announce a formation of an expedition team to return to the base. And I had not spoken to them since some time in 2018. I don’t know exactly when our last messages were. Unfortunately I got a new phone that Christmas of 2018.
 
Steven: And I just want to mention that if I did anything to add to your stress and anxiety with the research that I did, I try to be ethical about what I was finding and come to you directly rather than just spill the beans because I’m interested in the story and to see what happens next.
 
That’s right, that’s right. And people were – people have posted photos, screenshots of people’s property with coordinates and they’re not even--
 
Doxing people.
 
Right, but Twitter doesn’t see it as doxing it because it’s public information. It’s a real oversight and mindscrew and they need to drill down instead of being a millimeter deep on that kind of morality, but whatever. That’s for Twitter for figure out, and for people to figure out. I’ve had a lot of criticism saying that I doxed him right away, but I didn’t. I didn’t dox him, not even. The people who have been going out and attempting to dox him are really the issue, and Steven, this is something that I had wanted to talk to you privately about, but hey, transparency--
 
This is the way we do it now… I’m sorry for that, maybe we should’ve talked offline but--
 
No, it’s okay, it’s okay.
 
And I’ve been horrified by— People are sending me stuff and then they get mad at me because I took the position that I’m not gonna confirm or deny anything that anybody’s posting on Twitter. I gave you a promise that I wasn’t going to disclose anything until after your expedition, I’m gonna keep my word because I feel like confirming or denying, if this is the right mountain or this is the right guy, it’s just gonna just be breaking my promise so I’ve been pretty silent.
 
That’s right, that’s right, and I’ve appreciated that. And y’know we’re all in a really difficult position now.
 
It’s a sticky situation now, for sure, yeah.
 
It’s a sticky situation and it’s not lost on me. I’m just not in a knee-jerk kinda mood, I really want to be deliberate about this because I understand why someone who – by the way, Wayne, his cancer has worsened according to him and I have no reason not to believe him. Okay, so he’s back in cancer treatment and they’re a little scared this time, y’know, and I know it’s from – it’s not just the stress of me, it’s other life stresses that they have, okay. But unfortunately they chose to pay attention more to what detractors and attackers were saying, not skeptics but detractors and attackers, y’know, trollers, that in seeing how they were treating me, my story, talking about them, accusing them of potentially having given me some sort of hallucinogenic or something, and then taking advantage of me in some kind of weird pornographic snuff film. I mean, I’ve heard it all. And those kinds of comments are out there and these people are just nice people, okay. And they’re seeing this and hearing this, and it’s terrifying. And now there are people who have no scruples whatsoever who are trying to tear apart the wrong man’s life in the first place, and now I’m stuck in a position where I really have to protect this poor other individual because it’s not them, it’s not them and it’s horrible what’s happening, and I just feel terrible about it and what do you do? What do you do?
 
And then at the same time, on top of all of these small interpersonal things that we have going on here, and this man’s health, which we all have to respect to some degree, in some way, I had an experience on his property that we need to figure out what the hell is going on? And you can’t invite a former Pentagon Defense Intelligence agent to your home and take them to meet extraterrestrials in a tunnel, and then expect they’re going to go away. That’s not going to happen. I’ve had a consciousness awakening that I haven’t lost my mind, y’know. [Very firmly] I’m not going to walk away.
 
And I don’t really care what anybody online says about this, I really don’t. I have work to do, I have a lot of different kinds of work to do, this is a soft disclosure, that means I have to have some kind of public contact. They remind me daily you’re a mouthpiece, you’re a mouthpiece. ‘A’ by the way, not ‘the’. And so I have to resp— It’s just a lot of pokers, guys, and it’s a real balancing act and there’s been some real significant damage that’s been done because this is the time of choosing, and people are making their choices and some of them are choosing to behave in ways that are destructive and that are negative, and that’s the nature of the end of this cycle, so, yeah. [Big sigh] I’m sorry, I’m doing everything I can and I’m not gonna stop. You guys can hate me, you rake me through the coals all you want, but--
 
Oli: Nobody hates you, I’m just wondering what Jeremy’s about to say because he looks like he’s dying to pitch in.
 
Jeremy Rys: re. Twitter poll, it seemed you were serious about putting the team together.
 
I am putting a team together.
 
You are still serious about doing the expedition? It hasn’t been canceled, right?
 
It hasn’t been canceled, I’m not going to cancel anything until y’know this world’s turned upside-down and there’s just nothing left for me to find. But that’s how I feel about it. Now, how do I do that within the framework of our legal system and my respect and genuine affection and compassion for the people who are involved, and my need to fulfil what I had no doubt is my mission here to talk about consciousness, to bring about soft disclosure, and to make first contact? This is what – they show me the path all the time. And I did see it coming right away, I saw this nightmare situation coming, just hoping that I could salvage it.
 
I don’t understand it. I don’t understand why I drove across the country and didn’t get on the property. I don’t understand. I thought this was how it was going to go, y’know. I say “Hey, I’m on my way.” You say, “Yeah, I’m here.” I get there, and we hug and reunite and go looking for our new friends. That didn’t happen, and so I’m a little stunned and just really not sure how to proceed.
 
Steven: The only thing I can relate your situation to is— [talks about wanting to dig up alien body to find the truth, but had no permission] The absolute proof could be right here…
 
That’s right.
 
But I had to respect the law…
 
Jeremy: We could sneak-attack this… Who the heck would know we’re out there if it’s this wilderness area, the middle of nowhere, even if it is private property… I would gladly do a year in jail for a misdemeanor trespassing if I got the evidence of alien – proof on camera or hard scientific evidence of disclosure or contact. You know what I mean?
 
I do, I do--
 
I’d be down for that, I wouldn’t care.
 
Look, um, he has already told me that he has cameras up all over the property.
 
What, trail cams? He’d have to have – I’m familiar with electronic security and I don’t know of any system that has that long of a range that you could have cameras up on the whole perimeter.
 
Mm-hmm.
 
I have counter-equipment. We could scan this place before we even go in, and I could find a break in that perimeter or plan an attack so far away from anything. There’s ways around all of the things you’re mentioning.
 
Mm-hmm.
 
It’s up to whether you have the drive and the want to.
 
Well it’s, y’know, honestly, Jeremy, the devil is in the details and we would have to talk privately about those details and you might feel a little bit differently about what you’re saying once we talk offline. And maybe you won’t, and y’know--
 
Or the property owner turns out to be the manufacturer of Barrett 50 cals, then I might be a little bit worried about going on this property.
 
There are reasons to just – to be very careful, and I don’t think that it – I don’t think that’s the answer. I know it’s a way. I know it’s a way. I think there are many ways to do this.
 
Steven: Maybe some more negotiation and understanding between you and him.
 
Absolutely.
 
Would be more beneficial than trying to do it in a way that may be perceived as an illegal or dirty way of proceeding.
 
Right. Exactly. That’s what I’m trying to say, is there’s so many ways to do this and me personally, whatever way that I’m involved in, has to be just super above board because I don’t know what, why Wayne has said no right now, but I know that this is huge. This is a huge moment and this is part of his consciousness process. We can choose to be in service to others and to recognize when the need of others outweighs our own needs, and I’m always trying to check that as well when I think about this – at what point do I tip over into just serving myself because I want to make, y’know, want to save face? And so this is a daily meditation for me, to let go of the need for anyone else’s belief or support outside of my very private circle that I’m working with.
 
And that’s just how it has to be because I was in a physical tunnel, and I went into a physical location where there were beings that were incorporated in bodies, several different races, okay, several. I don’t even know because I don’t know how to distinguish between all the races, I don’t know! I don’t know how to do that. And unfortunately I have a lot to learn about drawing but — it’s – I don’t even remember what I was saying, I’m very sorry.
 
Jeremy: [The entrance to this cave, was there any markings? Futuristic or like a mining tunnel?]
 
Yeah, first of all it was obscured, okay, so the entrance was obscured. I wouldn’t have noticed it, I don’t believe. Maybe I would have, if I was looking for it but it was obscured. And then the interior of the tunnel itself was what you’d expect, a pretty rustic tunnel but it was well done at the same time. It was structurally sound. I do remember keeping my head down a lot and using my flashlight on my phone just to watch my feet. I was already tired. I have what’s called a positive Romberg’s, I think, which means that when either I close my eyes or it’s dark, I lose my balance and so we have a lot of lights on in the house all the time because of that, so that I don’t experience that.
 
And so I was a little, y’know, discombobulated from that and really had my eyes mostly on our legs and my feet, just trying to watch my step. Then we got to that right-angle turn to the right and there they were. They were just right there, like 20 feet from where I stopped, there they were! That’s it! They were just there. I can’t help it, I’m sorry I didn’t have the ability to get it on camera cuz god knows I’m not an idiot, and I hope I don’t come off as an idiot, but I didn’t, I didn’t. It was in my pocket, I don’t know what to say. But its--
 
So this time you were out there, you hiked out to the site with the property owner?
 
Yes.
 
And he brought you out there.
 
Yes!
 
Where did you guys park and how long of a walk was it? How far of a hike?
 
Well I parked at his home and I won’t talk about that, sorry. About the second part. I’m not going to--
 
Did you guys take ATVs out to a location?
 
I don’t want to talk about how we got to what we did, where we got, how long it took us or anything. I’m sorry, I don’t wanna get into those details. I’ve learned, I’ve learned, there are too may hounds that are waiting right now and I’d like to not spend any of my time in this world behind bars for having done something unintentionally where people acted stupid and then – I dunno, I go to jail? I don’t know, does that happen? I don’t know.
 
In order for you to go to jail for someone else committing a crime there has to be a charge of conspiracy involved, you have to agree together to commit a crime. You providing information openly is not encouraging people to commit a crime, nor is it--
 
Steven: No I think the issue is that she has given specific details that in the past have been used by internet hounds to find locations – so maybe she’s hesitant to say “It was an hour long hike from his house to the mountain” because that may give people more to go on in finding the location which she’s been a lot more cautious of after the first couple of things she said were enough for some people like me and others and Charlie Wiser, to go on to find places.
 
Jeremy: I’m good with Google Earth, I could narrow it down--
 
Steven: That’s what happened when she started describing things, we all went out and said okay we have to find a person that owns this kind of a company with this kind of a house and it’s gotta have a mountain on it and these are the qualifiers, let’s eliminate everyone we can and narrow it down, and eventually you – and it’s not a criticism but I don’t think she was prepared for the tenacity of some researchers in having just a little bit of information… people have found more information based on the little that she did say originally.
 
Right.
 
Jeremy: So then let’s continue the story, so you get led down this tunnel, can you describe the tunnel itself? Was it flat? Were you going downhill? What was the grade of the tunnel, was it going into the – down into the ground or were you walking flat? Do you remember?
 
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Um, I’m just kind of reliving walking down it, cuz nobody’s ever asked me that detail, that’s really an interesting detail. It didn’t feel like it was uphill or downhill. I felt, I’m pretty sure it was pretty flat. That we weren’t going down, I know we were not going down like that because--
 
But it was straight, like it was carved artificially like it was man made, not like a natural cavern.
 
That’s correct, I’ve spent a lot of time in just about every area of the Mojave that you can think of, and this was not a natural formation. This was an artificial tunnel. It was not a cave.
 
Were there wooden supports, posts and lintel structural supports?
 
You know there was--
 
You know what I mean by post and lintel?
 
I do, yeah, y’know--
 
Usually there’s a post on either side then a lintel overhead that holds up the rock.
 
I don’t remember the overhead, but what I do remember is, at the end of the tunnel, where the light was hitting it, I saw beams of wood that were like in that upper corner of the tunnel where it was turning in that right angle towards the right. Does that make sense?
 
And that was looking up, like the slope of the tunnel was sloped uphill at that point?
 
No, I don’t think--
 
Trying to make sense of this, it’s straight--
 
Just straight ahead, yeah. I don’t remember any feeling of trying to, I don’t remember feeling like I was walking downhill cuz I was already struggling. I think I would remember, I know I would remember that. So, I wasn’t walking downhill, I wasn’t walking uphill, it was just straight, it was pretty straight. But the light coming from what turned out to be the base of the higher beings up ahead was shining out from their entrance that we went through. It was shining out and hitting that corner of the tunnel that we turned, and up at the top there I remember there being some, like a beam going across, just some wood, y’know. But I just noticed it was like beams of wood, couple of beams of wood.
 
So you go in this room and there’s a bunch of different types of extraterrestrials – I don’t know, we shouldn’t call them aliens, apparently.
 
Apparently.
 
Oli: It’s racist.
 
Jeremy: What shall we call them?
 
Oli: You can’t call them aliens.
 
Jeremy: Doesn’t seem right, man.
 
Oli: Demi Levato says you can’t use it.
 
Jeremy: They look like us? How many were there? What happened after that?
 
We turned the corner and I stopped, I came to a dead stop, I remember that. And at that point there were two races of beings that were standing in what I only know to call an alcove, y’know, because there was one hallway that I could see, there were two entrances to what I now think were doors to other areas, and then there’s this one area over to my left that’s completely black and I still have no idea what was there, I have no idea at all, it’s like they will not let me see it whatsoever. I don’t know how that makes everyone feel, I know how it makes me feel. I don’t like it but I suppose they have their reasons. Um, so, there was--
 
How many and what did they look like?
 
Right. So there was a Grey that I believe was artificial, some sort of artificial technology, y’know. Not organic in the way that we would think of organic, human idea of organic. But definitely had a consciousness. There were—and it had grey skin. There were three Tall Whites that were standing, there’s a male and a female standing next to each other and there was a third male that was standing in the back. There was a fourth that would come now and then from down the hall, but wasn’t standing there initially when I first came in. And they were all dressed very similar, well the same, excuse me, they were all dressed the same. Like similar to – I don’t even know how to explain it. If you could take like a – it’s so weird – like a wetsuit, and like cross it with like a military uniform? That’s what it looks like they’re wearing. And I say that specifically because the boots that they’re wearing were pretty thick and serious, they were black leather boots and they were very there and they had quite a bit of tread.
 
Oli: So the Greys rock leather.
 
Just look like black leather, I mean, y’know, like a black military boot, like a real no-nonsense tread on it, so.
 
Have you ever seen any of these aliens – this sounds crazy but have you ever seen then anywhere else? [talks about 4chan alien that took down the platform for a day] Have you seen pictures on platforms? Anything you witnessed in that cave, have you seen anywhere else?
 
Well I mean I’ve seen them in other places, I’ve seen them--
 
I mean on the internet? Has anyone ever revealed them and you thought, I’ve seen that little thing!
 
Um, I mean sure, sometimes.
 
Which ones?
 
Goodness, it’s – oh, um, I really don’t, I’m not trying to be flippant.
 
I just wanna know which ones are the real ones.
 
Oh, oh, oh, well, I’m not ever gonna say someone else’s depiction of what they saw isn’t real, I’m just not. You’re not gonna hear me do that.
 
Jeremy: You described it as a single Grey and then 2 Tall Whites, a male and a female, and then another Tall White male that would come and go.
 
No, there were three Tall Whites that were there, a male a female beside each other, the one that was behind them, and a fourth that would come and go.
 
Did they talk and did you communicate with them?
 
Yes, absolutely.
 
English or telepathy or…?
 
They one hundred percent, it’s not – I’m going to explain the difference, my understanding of the difference between what we consider to be telepathy, which is just like the reading of minds, and what they’re proposing and doing with us which is conscious communication, and conscious contact. Um and it’s of a deeper variety, it’s like telepathy is a millimeter deep kind of power trip where you’re not really thinking about intentions and mindfulness and y’know thinking about the energy that you’re exchanging with the other person and I would just say that there’s a real lacking to the idea of telepathy. Telepathy is like, y’know, it’s trade craft, it’s not um – it’s not the full mechanism. So there’s definitely that kind of element, but essentially the way that they – I have this, I’m so sorry--
 
So would you hear a voice inside your head?
 
No, it’s like, it’s like an image would just come into my head that had like everything, I would just hear it, see it, experience it. It’s like an experiencing of communication. So I could feel what they felt, or what they wanted me to feel. And I say this very honestly, I’ve spent a lot of time thinking about this, they wanted me to feel at that moment that they were kind of surprised to see me. “Oh, Anjali, we’ve been wanting to talk to you” was really what was orchestrated. I don’t know why. Because it’s very clear to me now that it was all planned out, all of it, and I just don’t – I’m still, like everybody else, trying to understand it fully. Even with all the [inaudible]
 
Steven: Can I ask for a point of clarification. Some people, especially Charlie Wiser, have been very critical of you and there’s some screenshots that exist that at one point you said you never did DMT and there’s other statements that you made that said you did a synthetic form of DMT, and a lot of people have attacked you for the discrepancy in regard to the DMT.
 
Sure.
 
Jeremy: For the record I’ve never tried DMT before.
 
Steven: I did.
 
Jeremy: I’ve done a lot of mushrooms, I’ve eaten a lot of gel tabs, and I’ve never seen anything like this.
 
Thank you!
 
Steven: I’ve done DMT and – one of the things that intrigued me about her story is that I did DMT and I saw a purple being, but in my case I didn’t perceive it as alien, I perceived it as the walls of perception had fallen and I was able to perceive beings from another dimension. So to me they were interdimensional beings, but it was a purple being quite like she described that was the main character in my DMT experience.
 
Mmm. Okay. [As if she’s heard this before] That’s beautiful. I didn’t know that, Steven, that’s incredible. Um, so I have never done DMT. What I have always said about DMT on social media and just everywhere is that when I have talked about my experience, okay, with people before, and especially on Reddit, people thought that it sounded like a DMT release. That initial contact when I was in the hospital ICU, and I go oh, well, maybe that was a DMT release and I’ve heard that before, and so I have maintained throughout my experience the possibility that I had some sort of DMT release in that moment, and that kicked this off okay. So, I can’t rule it out, I don’t know. There have been friends of mine who have done lots of psychedelics and I’ve told them about my experience or my view of the world or just whatever in they’ll say things like well, I can understand why it sounds like you did psychedelics because you had this aspect to it, but then you--
 
Jeremy: When you have images flashed at you, that sounds like a psychedelic experience.
 
Steven: Being pulled into a tunnel, and then back out of a tunnel as well. And it’s interesting, a lot of people don’t know this but I think it’s 76% of people who have a heart attack have 6 times higher the level of DMT in their bloodstream directly after the heart attack and that causes a lot of near-death experiences and strange experiences for heart attack sufferers. So there is scientific literature and things that support that sometimes the body can spontaneously on its own decide to produce high levels of DMT and give these strange experiences.
 
Absolutely. So the parts – so I have to recognize that. I also recognize that there were some very real tangible physical structural, as much as we can talk about things, hard things that were happening. I was in an actual tunnel, I was with people, we were having conversations about meeting these people – the beings. They came to a coffee shop, sat down beside me, talked to me, told me his damn life story, then tells me that he has aliens on his property – do I wanna come meet them? There are – we’re talking about somewhere, probably around 11 or 12 in the morning until 3AM when I left their house, that I was with these people. Is anybody trying to tell me that I was tripping on something all that time? Come on!
 
Y’know, that just was not what was happening, not at all. I understood everything that was happening, I was aware of the physical location of the tunnel, we had this conversation before we even left the coffee shop about going to their property and what we would find there. I followed them and their friends came later, so I spent time in their house with them, where he took it upon himself to offer to me that I would be returned – or “This is the archway,” he says, and he hits that wooden archway, “This is where they always put me back when they’re done with me.”
 
Oli: Anjali, and don’t take this the wrong way, but you’re in the restaurant with your good friend, you go for a coffee, you get chatting to Wayne and – is it Trisha?
 
Yes.
 
And your other friend leaves, you’re with these people… He left you with these people.
 
Yes, he left me.
 
Did he hear them start talking about aliens, and then left you?
 
A: No, no had already left.
 
He’s a good friend then.
 
He is, he’s such a precious human, absolutely. No, he didn’t leave me in any kind of [—]. He thought I was going home.
 
Why did you go with them? You’re on your own, they tell you this story but you do hear – I’ve watched a lot of horror films. Two people that tell me they’re gonna take me to a cave with aliens in, I would think I can either just go with hit because I love aliens, or I may be chopped into little pieces. I know you mentioned on Steven’s show that you messaged your family to say “I am going to go to a cave.”
 
No, let me tell you what I sent to them. So once they invited me to their home and I accepted, they showed me their IDs, they pulled out their driver’s license and they showed me their IDs. And I sent the information to my daughter after I put it in my phone, okay. And they gave me their phone numbers, and we sent a text message to make sure that we were connected, and then I sent all of that information to my daughter and to a friend telling them that this is where I’m going, and this is where I’ll be, I’ll drop you another pin when I get there and so I got there and dropped another pin and said this is where I am. And so frankly I felt they showed zero hesitation to give me their phone numbers and to show me their IDs, they just pulled them right out of their wallets and showed them to me right there. Unless that was all planned, then those were legitimate IDs and I definitely went to the address that was on them, and I just felt that after the experiences that I had been having in my home, I really – and I had this itch that there was a lot more and I just – I was looking for a lot of answers and so, y’know, I thought well maybe I’m actually having some really legitimate contact. Y’now, the jury was out in my own head before I met these two, okay. I had no idea if I was going nuts or had had some kind of crazy spiritual enlightening – I like – I didn’t know what was happening to me.
 
So because of your past, that’s why you went with it, because you thought I need to do this.
 
I have to do this, absolutely. And I felt that they knew that there were people who knew exactly where I was going and who I was with. Who’s going to hurt me now?
 
I’ll tell you who’s going to hurt you now.
 
The public. [laughs]
 
No--
 
Steven: UFO Twitter’s gonna go nuts tonight, I can tell you that.
 
I know!
 
Oli: If what you’re saying is true, and I mean that in all due respect, because for all I know you could be talking codswallop.
 
Jeremy: You have some intelligence background right?
 
I think Oli was trying to make a point, he hadn’t gotten to it yet, I don’t think.
 
Oli: I just wanna know why you’ve taken this risk because if it’s true what conspiracy says, the government get rid of people when they want to do a disclosure like this. Did Wayne know you were going to go public with this? Wayne has now turned around and said this is not gonna happen, but did you not think that by doing this, you were putting your own life in risk anyway, and putting Wayne’s and his family’s life at risk? If you’re gonna give disclosure to all of us, the entire human race, do you see that as being a problem or did you think the government’s gonna be absolutely fine with it, let the aliens show themselves?
 
You know what I honestly think, and people probably are gonna have a great field day with this, but I think that there’s been a lot of silence because they want the disclosure as well. How can the government come forward and give us everything and say, “Yeah we knew all of this, all the time, we always knew about this, but you can trust us, everything’s cool. Let me tell you what’s really going on.” Is that really going to be a way to get anyone to trust you, is look at all the years and years and years and years and years of covert and purposeful behavior, y’know, to discredit, ruin the lives of people, ridicule the public, keep them quiet, and keep their entire existence out of our willingness to even see in the world. Does that make sense? [silence] Anybody with me there?
 
Well, you know, I still think it’s a risky little game you’re playing with the powers that be. If it’s the truth and nothing but the truth, so help you god--
 
Yeah. [raises left hand]
 
There’s some nasty people that work in high-up places that might not want that to happen.
 
I agree. Um, I have to--
 
I don’t think I’d have the balls, to be honest with you.
 
Look, I have to be – I have to tell you about, a little bit about my spiritual background, just real quick so you can understand just where I’m at today. I was raised in a Christian home, we weren’t real strict or anything about it. I actually wasn’t very involved in Christianity at all until high school when I fell into a group with some friends who were very active in their youth groups and so I got involved at that point, and there was a lot about it that jived with me, and a lot that really didn’t jive with me, didn’t jive with my understanding of a lot of things. But I ended up, I would say I went down a path where I spent a time as an agnostic, and then I spent a time as a real hard atheist. Lights out, game over. And now I don’t know which way is up, y’know, all I know is that I started having contact with beings that I now have – I had contact with beings when I was a child, different ages--
 
Jeremy: So the Christianity, do you view yourself as a martyr then? Is that where you see yourself and why you’re doing this and moving forward?
 
A martyr? [surprised] In what way would that be, a martyr?
 
Like you’re willing to put yourself on the line and sacrifice yourself for the good of humanity.
 
Oh I’m definitely willing to sacrifice myself for the good of humanity but I don’t consider myself a martyr. That’s not what I’m trying to--
 
No, you wouldn’t call yourself one, but it’s kind of like--
 
I don’t want – we all know what happens to martyrs in the end and I’m really just not interested in that path, but at the same time I’m also willing to throw out the BS and say, wow, there’s a lot going on here that we are not understanding, and the more contact that I have with these beings, the more certain I am that we have no clue what the heck is going on around here. It’s much more complex than I am even able to understand right now, and so I am – there is just no, there is nothing to me that’s more important, it’s like a single focus in my life to do what they’re asking and to keep up the communication and to promote others learning conscious communication because they’re saying there’s going to come a time when we are with other races that are not able to use their tongues and have vocal cords in the way that we do, they’ve evolved out of it because they have evolved into conscious communication.
 
So it’s actually, it’s not a step down, it’s a step up and they want us to start making that step, not to lose our ability to speak, okay, they’re not saying that you don’t need to speak. But if we can learn conscious communication then we will be much more deliberate, much more mindful about the intentions and the thoughts that we convey and how – what we choose to say to each other.
 
Did they have any message for you? Was this the last contact you had?
 
I have contact with them every day, Jeremy. The conscious contact is like--
 
And you can communicate back?
 
Yes. Yes, I can communicate with them, absolutely. Yeah.
 
Amy: Have you communicated today with them?
 
Oh yes, mm-hmm.
 
What are they communicating with you, if you don’t mind me asking?
 
Well, we were communicating – I was meditating on this situation that I have with Wayne. And whether or not an idea that I had was one that all the members of the council supported, and if not, who are the ones that didn’t, basically. The council’s made up of service to others and service to self entities, and I wanted to make sure that the ideas I was getting that were sounding kind of good to me, were right. And unfortunately, they felt that, well, it was actually a service to self member of the council who admitted that the other members of the council did not agree with what I was proposing to do. So, that was what we talked about.
 
I can resonate with that on a lot of different levels, especially through telepathy, meditation, connecting to each other through our consciousness. It’s a very vibrant world so I totally understand what you’re saying. Oli, what other questions did you have for Anjali?
 
Oli: I was just gonna ask on the back of what you were talking about Amy, when Steven was doing his excellent interview with yourself, one of the aliens said hello to him. How does that happen? What do you hear?
 
Steven: I got a lot of criticism because I didn’t know how to react to that. The aliens said hello and acknowledged me.
 
Oli: Is it just like a little whisper in your head?
 
Oh, no no no no no no. No. It’s like you get – it’s almost like an image, okay, and they show like their face so that – and it has an expression, so they’re trying to convey, and so it comes with an intention, which, the intention is, is conveyed. I can’t, I don’t understand the mechanism, I can only tell you. [laughs at Jeremy’s alien ID] You can fly Elon around on Mars, you’re licensed. Um and then, the message is just like, I don’t know how to explain it, it’s just all downloaded, you just know it all at once and so it’s like this experience. And so it was – he came forward and it was literally like a coming forward, and he said “Hello, Steven,” so it’s like – Oh, okay, hello Steven. So, yeah. Sometimes that happens.
 
Steven: You can buy my new book “Greeted by an alien”, it’s gonna be on Amazon next month.
 
How to greet an alien for dummies. [laughs]
 
Amy: Anjali, to your point, there is something that people in the spiritualist community call a download. I’ve had these experiences in my own life and have been like very confused, very discombobulated… Have you heard that terminology?
 
That’s how I’ve described it, everywhere, a download, it’s an image with all this metadata that when you receive it, it all just downloads and it’s whatever they want to convey, but it’s very full, it’s incredibly rich. It’s like an experience.
 
Oli: Is it safe to say that what’s going to happen this year is not likely going to happen with Wayne saying you can’t – I know you’re saying you wanna make this happen, but is it pretty much safe to say this is gonna have to be postponed?
 
It is safe to say that I am not going to stop looking for a way on that property, and that I am going to assemble the team and give them the full background, the full report, and we’ll see what we can do with that information. There may be--
 
Would you have to trespass to get that done?
 
I would like to look for ways that we wouldn’t have to do that, because I am not willing to put anyone at risk or to just disrespect them in that way. I’m not a pushover, y’know. I’ve had an amazing experience and I would say I’ve had a consciousness awakening. I am also the person that they met in the café who worked in intelligence for the United States and to be quite frank with you, we are on a trajectory for some kind of disclosure and contact situation. There are some things that are happening in the world that I think it would be really beneficial if we were the first ones to have that sort of open contact where our society begins the culture of extraterrestrial or higher being contact. You know what I’m saying? We set the tone for the culture of contact. And I think that that’s pretty important, and so there is that part of me that still wants to consider that, cuz I know it’s on people’s mind. Unfortunately it’s a very real world consideration that I don’t want to have to consider myself, y’know, I don’t want to have to be in a position to have to think about those things. There are much better and bigger people in this world who are in much better positions to facilitate that discussion. [sighs] Yeah, I don’t know.
 
Amy: There’s more than what meets the eye. We try to look at this nuts and bolts aspect of what’s going on with the phenomenon, and one thing that’s truly missing is talking about the other side. I truly believe that most logically the crafts are run through consciousness, so if we don’t explore our consciousness how can we ever know how to even navigate these craft, right?
 
Jeremy: I had my own download 15 years ago… [talks about hiking] I’d be willing to help you out on this expedition and also maybe get scientific equipment and cameras and other stuff to collect data.
 
Mm-hmm. Thank you.
 
Jeremy: Talk more about the intelligence work you did in the past?
 
Okay, what did you want to know, specifically? I mean was there anything specifically that you’re interested in?
 
You’re non-military, right? You don’t have a military background, right?
 
No, I do have a military background.
 
Steven: Former Air Force.
 
Jeremy: Oh, former Air Force, okay. And were you inducted into intelligence through the military?
 
No, I was not. I was recruited out of graduate school.
 
Was that for specific skills you had, what you were studying in graduate school?
 
Well, I had sat for the foreign service exam, and I had also sat for FBI interviews, and then it was all within a month of those interviews that I was recruited. There were a couple of papers I had written but I don’t know how they could have gotten a hold of them. I’m not really sure… I had written some things about our relationships with significant areas of the world that had come up during my State Department interview and it just – I believe they coordinate very well with each other, and they thought that I had a niche for human factors and that was the call that I got. So I didn’t have anything to do with it, it was happenstance.
 
Did you have security clearance?
 
Oh yes, of course, I had a top secret special – sensitive compartmental information, special access programs. That’s good stuff. Yeah.
 
Interesting. When did your work for that end?
 
I left finally I would say in ’16. I was preparing in ’17, throughout 16 and 17, I wasn’t feeling well, I had health issues going on, but a friend of mine who owns a large ammunitions company was competing for a defense contract with the Vice President of a country in Africa that was having some problems with their national pipeline being attacked, and they were looking for someone to do some HUMINT, to go in and persuade the locals to cooperate with hem to determine where the militias were that were attacking the pipeline because it was just destroying their national GDP and threatening their position in OPEC. So I was training a lot during that time that I was not working, and until actively I was waiting for this negotiation to be finalized and to deploy abroad as a contractor, a private contractor on a private contract with the government.
 
So most of your contracts and information you were exposed to in intel work was related to foreign affairs with other countries. You never saw anything related to extraterrestrials or aliens? They didn’t induct you into these programs or anything like that, right?
 
No, no. You know how highly compartmented intelligence is. I had no need to now, and therefore I don’t.
 
How many years were you active intel?
 
Oh, um, let’s see, I think collectively I did 6 or 7 years, and I had breaks in between where I worked at a newspaper, taught at a private college.
 
Steven: I verified that you were once a DIA direct employee, and then the rest of your time was as a contractor for the DIA.
 
Yeah, but it was all intel. One of my contracts was with DIA, another contract was with the Marine Corps, was directly with them.
 
Jeremy: I remember seeing something else, you ran for political office at one point, too, between that?
 
[sighs] Yes, it was something that I got – I don’t wanna say – I was not roped into it, of course. It wasn’t something that I was looking for at the time. But I definitely put all of my heart into it when I was doing it. I was asked by some people who were active in the party if I would run for a state senate position, for our district. They wanted to try to get it – it was a conservative district and they wanted to try to flip it liberal, I believe. And they thought that I had a good chance of being able to do that. I suffered through a primary with someone who had lived in the area for 50-some years and did weddings and was incredibly well known. I think I ended up losing by 52 votes or something? So I lost the primary, and so that’s when I was asked to run for secretary of state and--
 
Do you think you’d make a better president than Hilary Clinton?
 
Um [long pause] yes, sure, you bet.
 
Would you disclose?
 
Oh, yes, I mean look what I’ve done. I mean like there’s not a shred of anything left in my life, it’s just all this now, this is all there is. I had to – good god, I had to look my ex-husband in the eye and say, “Hey, so I met these beings and this happened, and it was in California, and I’m gonna go and do a press conference at the Lincoln Memorial, okay? It’ll be okay, right?” [laughs] And his eyes – just, oh my goodness. That was really a tough moment. It’s good people. The people in my life are amazing humans and they certainly deserve to have peaceful quiet lives if that’s what they want.
 
Oli: When you did the first press conference, you had a quite a few people with you – who are these people?
 
No, they weren’t with me. The only person that was with me was Max, that was it. I didn’t bring anybody to the press conference. I didn’t hire anyone, I didn’t bring anyone. Luckily, thank goodness, honestly that Alan Steinfeld was there, thank god, I’m so grateful. Something had happened with the permit and it didn’t get finalized so we didn’t have power on site and they were trying to figure that end out and I was sitting in my car, I was having such a hard time even getting up and moving in that heat, that we were trying to keep me cool during that debacle. So I was definitely in my top form and I’m just very grateful that the people who were there knew what to do and got things going. So, very grateful. But they were not with me.
 
There were some people definitely forming, and they had brought cameras and what I’m just saying is that I didn’t officially – I didn’t have anyone there that was representing or doing anything for me. They were all their representing themselves or their own special interests that they have that may connect with my experience, but that’s it.
 
You must know that a lot of people think what you’re talking about his horseshit, pardon my French, but you’re talking a load of nonsense, this is just a story, it’s never gonna happen. What would you say to those people? What would you say to me? How can you convince the people who just have seen all this before, they’ve seen the stories before, they’ve seen people come out with wild stories. People accuse Bob Lazar of being a liar. People accuse Travis Walton of being a liar.
 
Noooo, why?! Why is Travis suddenly a liar? What’s going on? God he has the most reputable--
 
Well he did fail two lie detector tests but I mean, there is a story with Travis where Mike Rogers has come out--
 
Steven: One of the original witnesses Mike Rogers, his good friend, came out and said it was all a hoax and that’s related to that TV producer that is flying drones over Wayne’s property.
 
Amy: That same guy? I know who you’re talking about.
 
Steven: Ryan, yes.
 
Oli: Is that the guy who was on my show, Amy?
 
Amy: I don’t think so.
 
Steven: He’s in the chat, OrionAdventures.
 
Oli: I’ve interviewed Ryan.
 
Jeremy: Yeah they point out that the light was a spotlight from a fire watch tower out in the forest and they knew where it was but drove back to a different spot…
 
Steven: Basically his good friend came out and said it was all a hoax because Travis and him fell out over money, but then Travis made the money right and his good friend recanted all of that.
 
So do we know which time he’s been lying?
 
Jeremy: I met Travis Walton in person at Alien Con in 2019 out in LA and he’s a really nice guy, man. I’d hate to think he made all that up for money.
 
Amy: Yeah, Travis is a nice guy, I’ve met him too, he’s super nice, super laidback guy.
 
Jeremy: What different does it make anyway? It’s just a story, it’s not like it’s the crux, it’s not like it’s the smoking gun proof, we’re still waiting for that contact. Once contact happens and disclosure happens it’s gonna be like open, we’re no longer in this bubble of Earth culture, we’re going to be opened up to a whole invisible world that exists out there that’s right under our noses that we didn’t even know was there before. If it exists, if it’s going to happen, assuming we’re really not the only ones here alone and this isn’t just manifestation of our own psychosis, there’s gotta be extraterrestrials out there, it’s just improbable that there’s not, and the idea that they may have already evolved on this planet and been here a long time, has not been completely ruled out. I wanna know more about the timeline of events, sorry I’m not as familiar with the story as Steven, but it’ll be good to give a quick overview of the timeline. So you met with this guy Wayne and he brought you out to the property.
 
Yeah, same day.
 
Rich [GUFON]: I have a question, I heard you’re not going to the cave which is something I predicted.
 
That’s not what I said, what I said was that Wayne has said that no one was allowed on the property.
 
Which would mean you’re not going to the cave, right?
 
We’ll see what happens in the future.
 
Not only I predicted that you won’t be going but there would be some excuse that we can’t deny, but it’s happening right in front of our faces and I’m sorry to hear that. So Wayne has cancer, huh?
 
[coldly] What do you want? What do you want? What is it--
 
Amy: I’m getting close to the Streamyard limit, like the four hour mark they actually kick you off. Hopefully we can just chit-chat and have more fun, like we’re doing. Great questions all around. Anjali, what’s so nice about you is you’re so open and honest--
 
Rich: Ha!
 
Any: —and I’ve seen you take some hard core questions. Questions that you could easily say I’m not gonna talk to this person, they’re just gonna corner me, and I’ve always been so impressed and like inspired by your grace. Honestly, I try to be as honest as I can, I think that’s half the whole reason we’re all out here looking for the honesty, and the truth.
 
Rich: The honest liar, yeah.
 
Amy: Well no, honest optimism. Nobody’s ever done this before, nobody’s ever come up with evidence that they’re here, and that’s what hurts my community, is when someone comes out and says they’re going to get researchers and they’re gonna go to this cave, and they’re gonna have alien evidence and all this stuff, and then it doesn’t happen. And that’s the same thing that happens every single time in this field. That’s why I’m frustrated. I don’t have anything against you, against the story.
 
Yeah right, exactly, and I don’t know if — I’m sorry, you weren’t here so you didn’t hear how the behavior of a lot of people in the public realm has affected this family, and of course you’re going to give the worst case scenario, which is it’s not going to happen You help set conditions for that not to happen, you berate, you deride, you ridicule everyone who’s an experiencer, and then you want me to care about how you feel? I’m sorry, I don’t care about how--
 
Rich: Well you don’t care about how we feel.
 
—about my experience, alright, and I’m not really concerned about your thoughts and your beliefs about my experience at all.
 
Amy: I feel the same way about my own experience. I totally understand that 100% and I think yeah, I’m just backing you.
 
I just don’t care, what I care about is the way that you so arrogantly treat people and berate them verbally and then expect that they’re going to what, go away? Is that what you want? Um, like you?
 
Rich: Yes, yes.
 
That’s not what they’re going to do.
 
I’d love that.
 
I just don’t understand what it is that you’re actually trying to accomplish, because--
 
Well what are you trying to accomplish?
 
I have made very clear what I’m trying to accomplish.
 
Right, and so have I. We all said that it’s never gonna happen.
 
No! I really don’t know what you’re trying to accomplish.
 
Well you won’t let me speak. So that’s good. My goal is not to expose the frauds but to talk about them and try to learn from them, and I feel that you are one of those people that has this grandiose story that will never bring a shred of evidence to our community, and yes I do say our community, cuz I’ve been here for 17 years. I feel like I know a lot of people in this field, and I know what they’re saying, and there’s very few people who really know what the community is like that doesn’t believe you, and I know you don’t care about that.
 
That’s right.
 
And quite frankly I understand where you’re coming from, I really do, being in the field a very long time. But it’s just frustrating, because I predicted that that was gonna happen, that you’re apparently not going at the end of the year or very soon within 6 months is what I remember you saying. So do you have any future plans? I mean how’re you gonna get back on there?
 
My plan is to get on to that base and to get into that mountain. And I’ve made that very clear. And I’m not sure exactly how to go forward, Rich, but what I’m not gonna do is be forced to tell you tonight what I’m gonna do to go forward.
 
I know, you don’t have an answer.
 
And then if I don’t tell you, that means that I’m not gonna go forward – that’s not what’s happening here. I am a deliberate person, this means a lot to me, and I need you to just respect that I’m gonna come up with something. I don’t know what to do yet. I don’t know what to do. That’s honest.
 
It’s frustrating for us because I predicted that you weren’t gonna go in the time you said you were gonna go. I just don’t see it happening.
 
I wish I could pat you on the back so you could stop saying how you predicted that--
 
I did!
 
You were very clear about your prediction, thank you very much for that.
 
Amy: It’s beautiful, the conversation that we’re having is good, because I think there are two different schools of thought that are constantly going back and forth.​

Nov 4, 2021 Truthseekers panel discussion

[incomplete]

​[18:28] Ryan Gordon: Y’all did a show 1 week, 2 weeks ago where you sent a lot of compliments in my direction… So after y’all’s episode and after an email to Ms Schultz, and Steven I do appreciate your help with that, I heard nothing back - I did take it upon myself to use only the information that Ms Schultz put out to try to contact this Wayne and this Trisha… I did take it upon myself to use my resources, I did ask in full transparency, I did ask Steven Cambian to just cut the shit and tell me where this was. I want to go on the record and say that Cambian told me no, he did, Cambian has helped me zero. [Erica also wouldn't help.] I wasn’t a fan of the answer no, requires a lot more work for me. So I did use my sources, my research, my experience with working in entertainment for the last 20 years to use everything respectfully Ms Schultz, that you have told publicly. I use nothing Ms Schultz that you haven’t said publicly, to contact your Wayne. And when I did that, your Wayne, not my Wayne, he was very gruff, very defensive, almost hostile, and before he would continue to talk to me, he asked for my credentials. Well Steven has seen my credentials, Scott Browne has seen my credentials. And so has Wayne. And so I sent these, and Wayne contacted me after about 24 hours, and not only did he confirm your identity, Ms Schultz, he told me about [-----].

Anjali: What does that mean?

R: You know what that means.

A: Okay, hold on, right now.

R: I’m still talking, excuse me I’m still talking. So I wanted to listen to this Wayne, and he knew you. He knew your maiden name, he knew your married name, he knew your kids.

A: No.

R: He also knew about your story. And so what I said was - and this is all recorded and--

A: Somebody is lying.

R: Excuse me, I’m still talking, excuse me.

Steven Cambian: Can you finish a thought and let her respond?

R: Absolutely, I’m gonna finish here in about 3 seconds. So Wayne - I exclude his last name out of respect, but what I told him is I’m gonna come to your construction office company, your location, and let’s chat. And not only did we chat, he showed me pictures of you, he let me go through his land.

A: Oh wow.

R: And I hear your projected transparency, I’m not here to pick a fight, I’m here to talk respectfully but I do wanna let you know, I believe in this topic so much and your distraction, your betrayal, your lies, respectfully, are damaging us so much. And I am hoping so, so much that you can just be clear because yes I have said Dec 15th I’m going to release the footage. You are the one Ms Schultz--

A: I would like it today, please. What is the hold up? Because you are straight-up lying. You’re head is straight up your ass right now. Straight up your ass.

R: It’s not 3rd or 4th or 5th dimension - density to use the language that you are. I’m speaking to you respectfully… I’m gonna put my phone on mute. I’m gonna defer to Scott Browne who knows me, who knows that I don’t say anything without proof. Steven Cambian knows that as well. I’m here to provide that proof--

A: I’m not asking for your respect, 'cus clearly I’m not going to get that. What I am asking for [is proof for what you are saying? Inaudible].

Scott Browne: Can we let her speak uninterrupted?

Ryan: Oh a million percent, let’s do it.

Anjali: First of all, dropping names of people like that is really a slimy move, really slimy. And I lost some respect for you in that moment. You made it very clear in that moment that all this was about is you and your reputation. Because you’re willing to make up stories about - let’s see what it is - photos that you saw of me with them, how this man knows my children and my family and a whole bunch of stuff.

R: Can I be on the record to say I never said anything about your children and family. If you’re projecting that based off the names I gave you, like [----], that is nothing more than evidence that what I’m saying is true. Back on you.

A: I don’t even know what you are talking about right now, because they have never--

R: So you don’t know a [----]?

A: I am telling you that this man--

R: Who’s [----]? Who’s [----]?

Steven: You won’t let her answer. Go ahead, Anjali.

A: He is my son and--

R: Okay, how do I know your son’s name, man? Who’s [----]?

A: Oh are you kidding me?

Steven: With respect you can find that from public records. I did.

A: It’s so easy, but what you are doing right now is ridiculous because this man that you are talking about does not know me, nor my family, and so I am telling you, Ryan, that either you are straight-up lying to everyone right now, or this man Wayne has misrepresented and thinks that I am someone else completely? I don’t think so. I think this is you. I think this is you. And I’m calling you on the table right now. Show me your evidence, because I’m gonna call this man tomorrow, I’m gonna call him myself. I’m sorry, I ran out of time tonight, I was talking to other people, I ran out of time and could not talk before this show or I would have gladly given you his response of whether or not he and I have ever met.

R: How would you call somebody you’ve never met?

A: Because I know--

Steven: The same way I did, apparently.

R: She’s saying that she’s never - excuse me Steven, I’m not speaking to you, I’m speaking to Ms Schultz.

Steven: I’m trying to direct the show, it is my show still, I think. Listen, we have to explain to the audience. So essentially what we have here is that the location that you believe you found that is the Wayne, Anjali is saying is not the right Wayne, that’s what I’m getting.

R: Look look look, I’m not here for you, I don’t have a YouTube channel, I’m not here for profit, excuse me I’m still speaking. I’m still speaking. I’ve mentioned enough information right now, and I’m not gonna use the language that you do, I’m not gonna swear, I’m not gonna curse, I’m not gonna do the things that higher beings wouldn’t do. I’m not gonna interrupt either but if we’re gonna have a conversation of what’s real and what’s not - what I will tell you, Ms Schultz, is I’ve been there. You saw my show with Rich at GUFON, you saw the picture that I sent to Rich GUFON. You know - excuse me I’m still speaking, I didn’t interrupt you. Can we have some respect here, I didn’t interrupt with you. You need to be at a higher density, okay? Can we be at a higher density?

Rich/GUFON: It’s gotta be a two-way conversation bro, let her - I mean, [she’s] gotta respond some time.

Ryan: So through and through, I’m not gonna play the game. I’ve got what I need.

Anjali: Then show it.

R: I’m happy to release it.

A: Please. Right now would be great.

R: Alright, so I’m gonna do that on my channel.

A: Good, thank you.

R: And I’m gonna put my phone back on mute. Thank you for destroying UFOlogy. I’ve been there, talked to these people. By the names I’ve mentioned you know that I have. I appreciate you’re laughing, I appreciate your dishonesty, I’m not here to pick a fight. You can tell by my voice, but I’ve been there, you know I’ve been there. I’m gonna put my phone back on mute. Thank you Steven for having me.

Anjali: It does not matter what has just transpired, I am telling you that that man has incorrect information. He is name dropping information that he can pull from the public domain in a threatening way because he knows how much I don’t want to invite my family into this, right? I have deliberately left my family out. And so this is a manipulation of an emotional kind that none of you can even understand because you didn’t just have your child’s name dropped--

Steven: I wanna say for the remainder of the show - I’m a father myself - I don’t think her children are relevant to the discussion, so let’s try to leave the children out of this.

Ryan: Children are relevant when they have things to say, respectfully. They do have things to say. I do believe that, Ms Schultz, [---] when they have things to say about Ms Schultz’s character, those are relevant. I’m sorry to disagree with you Steven, with all due respect.

Steven: So you’ve been talking to her children? You think that’s a little beyond bounds?

A: He has not.

R: No, no, I think that--

S: You’re planning to?

A: Oh my god. What are you doing, man? Seriously! Show what you have, please, and let’s get on with it.

R: Okay, okay, you’re a fraud, you’re a liar, I have spoken to Wayne, I have Wayne on camera, I’ve been to the property, I have proof I’ve been to the property, I have Wayne on camera. You’re a fraud! Stop doing this to our community. Stop.

Steven: You’ve said that several times but we’re really not moving anything forward. Like I’m trying to say is that your--

Ryan: I’m sorry that we’re not moving things forward, so let me put my phone back on mute.

Steven: Alright so what is happening here is that - first of all I should explain that James A Conrad was the first person to find this Wayne that I believe Ryan is referencing, and both he, myself, and Charlie Wiser were trying to find a Wayne and a mountain, and then James A Conrad was the first, sends it to Charlie Wiser who sends it to me. Charlie Wiser and I did more background and we were fairly certain that we had the correct Wayne. So then, I called the guy and I’m gonna recount a very quick 20-minute conversation: I called him, I said “do you know about this Anjali woman who’s talking about aliens in your mountain?” And first he said “What? What?” And then I kind of repeated parts of the story, and then when I said "Anjali" he said, “do you mean Angelina?” That’s the best I recall. Then I asked him, “Did you have cancer recently or did you recover from it?” At which point he got very gruff and upset, and said, “I don’t know who you are, or how you seem to know so much about me and my business and my home, but I don’t wanna talk to you,” and he hung up on me. I believe, based on that conversation, that we had the right Wayne and the right mountain. I then forwarded all the research materials that we had been collecting, some 10 or 12 pages with all this man’s information, past companies, newspaper articles citing him, etc, to Anjali and said “I believe we’ve found your Wayne - I’d like to talk about this.” Next, Ms Schultz, I believe she asked for my cell phone number and we had a personal conversation where it was my perception that she was pleading with me not to release this information, saying that if Wayne was outed, that the expedition would be off. So then I gave her my personal promise that I would not release the information, but I did warn her that several other researchers had access to it, including I had forwarded the information to Erica Lukes from UFO Classified. Actually, I assumed she was going to give it to Scott Browne, turns out she didn’t even give it to her partner in her show, Scott Browne. She kept her promise. But I knew that Charlie Wiser, James A Conrad, and maybe others had this information. Then I did the interview with Ms Anjali. And next we have Ryan who - let’s get Scott Browne in here to tell this part of the story because Scott you know the sequence of events that happened after this. So Ryan starts looking for the mountain, he’s asking you for my information, he’s asking Erica for my information, he’s asking me. I refuse to give him that information based on the promise that I had made, but honestly I thought that somebody else was gonna leak it. It turns out somebody did leak that man’s information about that mountain, his home, satellite images, everything, all over UFO Twitter. So I believe that’s where Ryan may have gotten that information, it was leaked all over UFO Twitter. I don’t know that he located it independently first, but Scott can you shed some more light on those sequences of events, cuz he was calling you as well, asking for the location, telling you that he may have found some other Wayne that was the right Wayne. And I believe first he said that Charlie Wiser, James Conrad, and I had the absolute wrong Wayne, and that he could prove it. Later he changed his tune and now he’s saying that we had the right Wayne and he talked to him and he’s got him on tape and all these other things. What’s your take on that portion of the story, Scott?

[Anjali apologizes for losing her temper]

Scott: ...As far as I know, Ryan derived a lot of information from what was posted online, but he also spent a lot of time digging on his own and one of the reasons why he thought it may be the wrong Wayne - the one they were talking about - which he’s saying is the correct Wayne now - is because we found another construction company in the area and the man’s name was Wayne, but his wife’s name was Patricia. So this went back and forth for a while and then I lost touch with Ryan for some time and I had no idea that he was actually going down there to fly the drone, to talk to this Wayne, and then he came back and he told me he had done this stuff. Let me just say this, that I love Ryan to death, he’s a great investigator, I think he might’ve approached things a little bit kind of aggressively tonight. I just guess he’s just really upset about the whole thing because he wants to believe in something that’s the truth, too. You’ve said before too, Steven. I’ve been doing this for over 30 years so for people to come into the community with a story, start telling their story and about what they believe happened to them. We’ve been subjected to this so many times and it’s turned out to be absolutely nothing. And it kind of creates sort of an attitude, I guess you could say we’re a little jaded by it all. So when something new comes along we’re kind of like, Oh here comes a new one, coming down the road again. I guess in some of us it triggers something where we kind of get defensive towards it, because of the fact that nothing’s really happened over so many years.

Steven: … proof of aliens never pans out. Anjali, where are we at now? Are you saying the Wayne that James A Conrad, Charlie Wiser, and I found, is not the correct Wayne? If so, you and I have some problems because I believe that you confirmed it was before our interview with your pleading to me not to release the information.

Anjali: That’s right.

Steven: I thought we had the correct Wayne. I thought you confirmed that we had the correct Wayne. Ryan’s now saying that he’s done interviews and Wayne doesn’t know anything about the aliens but knows you, and he refutes your story. Ryan is also saying he’s flown drone flights all over this Wayne’s property and there’s no tunnel, there’s no entrance to a tunnel and that many parts of your story to him are vague and made-up. So where are we at with this?

Anjali: Where are we at with which part exactly?

Steven: I’m trying to get a sense here, are you saying that I had the wrong Wayne because I thought that you confirmed that that was the right Wayne, and that’s the same Wayne that Ryan is saying he spoke to and said your story is bunk.

Anjali: Right. Well, if you actually go back through our texts, I did plead with you not to release the information. I also said that I would get you an interview after the expedition, that was the trade-off, right?

Steven: I don’t know if it was tit for tat, but--

A: Well, no, it was kind of an agreement that we came to, through a series of messages. So you’re right, it wasn’t--

S: I agreed I was not going to release his information probably to anybody.

A: You didn’t want to jeopardize the expedition.

S: You told me that if I released that information, that information, which is the same information that Ryan followed, that that would jeopardize your expedition. So I agreed I wouldn’t release that information. But now it seems like the story is changing and this is not your Wayne.

A: The story hasn’t changed at all. It’s just that you just didn’t have the right Wayne, and you thought you did.

S: Why didn’t you tell me at the time that was the wrong Wayne? Why would you care if I released somebody’s information and it was the wrong Wayne?

A: Because if you did that, then it would spook the real Wayne, and we would end up here anyway. Does anyone not see that? I mean they don’t live in bubbles and they have watched everything that has gone down, and it’s been horrific, and I don’t even want to talk about them anymore right now, y’know. He is done, he’s done with all of this to an extent that I have to see if I can even repair my relationship with him. Okay? But the man that Ryan has seen is not my friend, this is incorrect and I didn’t want to tell you that because I thought if you thought you had the right person, and you held onto it for me until I could finish the expedition and bring proof forward, that it wouldn't matter anymore, you wouldn't even care. Would you? Would you even care at that point, Steven, to find out--?

S: I think a little bit, that you misled me because I felt like you were confirming I had the correct person.

A: I did let you feel that way, I admit that, I was very careful with what I said that I did absolutely lead you to feel that way, and I’m sorry, I did it for the greater good.

S: …I had the fake Wayne all this time but you didn’t tell me that he wasn’t the right Wayne.

A: That’s right, I bought some time before we had to go through this circus again. And now we’re gonna do this again to somebody else who’s also not gonna be the right person?

Rich: ...Did you say Wayne isn’t his real name earlier?

Anjali: I have said this all the time!

Steven: ...Ryan is apparently filming interviews with this Wayne, flying drones over his mountain, not finding an alien tunnel or entrance to a tunnel. This man is saying that he knows Anjali but doesn’t know anything about her alien stories… So this is a new mystery because if Anjali is telling the truth here, then we’ve got some other guy that’s just making up stories or saying that he knows her when he doesn’t, and down the rabbit hole we go.

Rich: Or Ryan’s making it up.

A: Did somebody pay him to say this? If this comes out - I don’t know. Let me tell you, d’you know people have offered me, they’re bribing me constantly anywhere from a thousand, ten thousand, fifty grand, twenty-five grand, a hundred grand, to come forward and just say that I just made it up? I could sit here and just collect bank on people who want me to just go away and say that none of it ever happened. But it did happen, and I’m telling you that this behavior is not going to get you the disclosure that you want, it is going to shut down someone who could help us with this. So do whatever you want, I’m washing my hands of this at this point with your search. I think it’s terrible, I think it should stop, I think it’s unethical. I have nothing to hide. Ask me, I’ll tell you anything you wanna know. I’m right here, I’ll tell you everything that you want to know.

Kari: Who’s Wayne?

Anjali: Except that. Can’t you understand that? Look at the way people are behaving. Look at this, this is madness.

Steven: Yeah I agree that people have treated you somewhat unfairly, have been nasty, have been mean to you. However, don’t you feel like you’ve invited that attention by making these fantastical claims?

Anjali: I feel like I honestly have shared my experience and I came into a community very naively. I think that I have done a few things out of naivety.

Rich: That makes sense.

A: Because this isn’t an act, this is who I am and I have literally had to shed my life to be able to tell you people this story, it was like my own idea - my own attachment - of myself and everything that was important in my life had to be cut off and exposed so I could let it go and move forward, so that I could move forward with what they are telling me to do. And in the meantime everybody thinks I’m insane. Wayne is dying of cancer. What the heck, y’know? Just leave him alone. I don’t know what to say. [inaudible] responsibility, of course I do. I’m just trying to share y experience, y’know, and--

Steven: [asks Ryan to respond to the revelation he has the wrong Wayne] Please be respectful and try to be brief in your remarks.

Ryan: Okay [giggles] I will agree to your terms. Can I show a picture, or a series of pictures, of the mountain? And Ms Schultz will you either agree or disagree that this is the right location?

Anjali: Uh, probably not? I’ve been very clear on that.

Ryan: So I’ve been there - well you’re full of shit then.

Steven: What if we show somewhere close?

Ryan: I’ve been there, I’ve talked to Wayne.

[Steven puts up images from All Trails]

R: I’m here to say I’ve been there, I have your Wayne on camera, he’s got you, he’s got [----], he’s got [----], he’s got [----]. Like, come on! 

A: What are you--? [inaudible] Stop.

R: The problem is you, man. You’re lying! You’re lying, you’re so full of shit.

A: These are just pictures online.

R: You’ve got no proof. I’ve got pictures, you’ve got no pictures. I’ve been there. You’ve got nothing. God damn. Don’t challenge me, cuz if you research me you would know that everything I do is backed up with proof. 

A: I’m not getting in to a battle with you.

R: You don’t know me.

A: You’ve got the wrong guy. Just leave us all alone.

R: I don’t have the -- [breaking up] Stop the bullshit man.

A: Let’s see it.

Scott: Ryan, Ryan--

Kari: Show us the pictures.

Scott: Ryan, are you there?

R: Yeah I’m here Scott.

Scott: Alright, so with the info that you got from this guy and the interviews and the talking you did with him, do you feel that there is any doubt that this is the wrong person?

R: Zero, he has pictures with her.

A: No, he doesn’t.

R: Oh bullshit. He has!

Kari: Do you have copies of these pictures?

R: Yes!

A: Let’s see them!

Kari: Can we see them?

A: Right now!

R: Yes! You’re so full of shit, man.

Steven: You can share screen. Can we stop the cursing and let’s both try to take a step back and take a breath.

A: I’m sorry I said what I said.

Steven: Everybody’s so passionate about this, both of you are, but we gotta be a little more respectful. Cursing at each other is not gonna do it. And Ryan has left the building. 

[Moderator in chat writes: RYAN GOING TO GET HIS PICS]

Steven: But I invite him to come back and he can share screen and share his evidence, because I think we’re at a standstill because we’ve got he said she said, and until we have evidence proving he’s right or she’s right, we’re spinning our wheels here.

Rich: Why doesn’t he just post the stuff, and then say here’s the evidence? He could just do that!

Steven: I believe you just said something on Anjali’s side, Rich from GUFON, and I’m proud of you.

Rich: I just wanna know what’s going on.

A: [laughs] It’s all topsy-turvy, inside is outside.

Rich: My god I don’t envy what you’re going through, I see it differently from this point of view tonight, but my goodness man, I just wish - if anybody makes any claims, just show it and let’s move on. That’s it.

Kari: [asks Anjali about higher beings’ boots]

A: [she says they may wear boots to interact with people out in the world, and looking back the aloof silent Tall Whites may have been Security]

Steven: [asks if she doesn’t get permission, where does that leave her? And why can’t beings meet her at other coordinates which would negate the need for any expedition?]

A: I agree, it would totally make all of this super easy and super convenient, if when I have pleaded with them to meet me anywhere, they have said that this is the path forward and I’m not really sure what that means but maybe it’s going to reveal itself. When I first told my story I never dreamed in a million years that I would be showing my face, telling my life story, meeting a team to go back and investigate to provide proof for disclosure. Didn’t even see this incredibly crazy arc of events that has happened, that I’ve agreed to. That’s the thing, I keep trusting and agreeing to do these things. And now I’ve driven literally from coast to coast across the country doing what they’ve asked me to do, and here we are. And they say that free will is an important part of this process, it’s an important thing to protect. They tell me everything is fine, they tell me not to worry, they give me no guidance on what to do next, they just tell me that everything is in order. And I never feel comfortable with that. But I just live in the present and try to deal with it in that way. So I don't think that my efforts will be off because permission is no longer possible at least at this time on his property. And I want to respect that and I have a lot of minds, very very intelligent people who are willing to troubleshoot this with me, members of the team who want to troubleshoot this with me and are offering - "let us help, let's figure this out" - understanding the constraints that we're now working under. And so, while everyone can't see that out in the world, you know there's nothing that has ended, there's nothing that's off, everybody is still here, I'm still here. And I'm actively seeing how we facilitate this in another way, okay? So I'm not asking for anyone to trust me, believe me, or follow me on Twitter. It's okay if you don't want to, it's okay if you think this is all just a bull-malarkey. The only thing that I ask is to just maybe stop trying to find this tunnel right now and just work on yourselves, work on your own consciousness, work on figuring out why you're here - is this why you're here? Is this why you're here? Is this your purpose in the world? Y'know, figure that out and how you wanna express it. That's what I do, every day. I'm not saying this to you guys or anybody in particular, I'm just saying this in general. It's my, it's how I'm dealing with it everyday with this.

​S: [You've mentioned Wayne has cancer. Why don't the higher beings just heal Wayne if they have this technology and if they cared? Do you want to address that, Anjali?]

A: No - I mean I don't know. I don't know why - maybe they can't, maybe it's part of what - Did Wayne agree to this before he got here? I don't know. You know, when I ask questions about why anything is happening, they say well because you guys all agreed to do this. And so, y'know, I just don't know, I'm sorry. I don't know why. I assume it's because they can't. Can't as in, incapable? Probably not. Not allowed? Maybe. Maybe they are incapable. I don't know.

S: [has emailed Ryan asking him to come back with proof, Ryan has emailed him images and claims to have been there, but you're saying this is not the right Wayne, not the right mountain. Is that accurate?] [Steven displays Ryan's images, which are in fact from All Trails, a hiking website.]

A: This puts me in a really difficult position because I want people to leave this man alone.

S: Which man now? The real one or the fake one, or both?

A: Both of them! I don't know what to say here. You know the answer.

Scott: The bottom line is - people shouldn't be bothering these people anyways. If you're gonna track down evidence, it's fine, but once you start harassing people at their homes, that's a little--

S: Let's be clear though, did Ryan have the right to call this man, approach this man, talk to this man? Yes. Early on I got the impression that he was going to fly drones over the property whether he had permission or not. He has since said that he got permission, flew drones over the property, and there's no tunnel, no entrance. But again, now we appear to be talking about the wrong Wayne... And this is where we find ourselves. So where do we go from here?

A: Well I hope everyone will leave this gentleman alone. I'm really interested to see what proof Ryan is going to produce but I have every intention 100% of contacting this gentleman tomorrow and to answer everyone's questions - how do I know who it is? - well because Steven Cambian sent it to me.

S: And it's all over Twitter now. But let's be clear, I was the first person to send it to Anjali and claim, Hey we found Wayne, and that was back - might've been September 5th or 6th.

A: It was very early, yeah. And uh, so I have their names. I’ve known it all this time. I have pleaded, literally pleaded with people to leave him alone and to just leave Wayne in general alone. I don’t know why - I understand, believe me I understand how incredible I am saying this experience is, okay, and I understand like the repercussions of me coming and saying no, this 100% happened and I stand by it. I understand that that creates a lot of anxiety for instant resolution because we’re having a very hard time dealing with this emotionally. That’s what I’m saying. I’m seeing people emotionally having a hard time dealing with it.

Scott: But you can see it from our perspective, right?

A: I do.

Scott: And so for us it’s really tough because we’ve been doing it for a long time. And if it doesn’t have anything to back it up, or solid evidence, it’s really just a story and it’s like I said, it triggers something in some of us where we kinda get a little standoffish and maybe a little aggressive because of the past and the people who’ve done it in the past.

A: Yeah, I understand.

Rich: Is there any chance these beings will leave and you may go visit there and they’re not there?

A: I hope not. That’s not what they’ve ever said. I have never felt for a moment that they weren’t there.

Rich: And is the cave a physical - I know it’s a physical location but are they there as holograms or are they really there? And I don’t understand why they would be in a cave.

[1:07:45] A: They’re not in a cave. They’re in a base, a subterranean base. Everybody always says they’re standing in a cave. No. I’ve said, I’ve been really clear. C’mon Rich, you’re a researcher. You know I said it’s a base. Don’t pretend like you don’t know.

S: Well it’s a base inside a mountain, so cave isn’t that much of a stretch.

A: If you want to say cave, go for it, but they weren’t. They have a very sophisticated base.

Ryan: I see the chat that people think I’m being aggressive, I guess I’m just ultraprotective of UFOlogy but Ms Schultz can you confirm or deny that the pictures that Steven has posted are of your mountain or not.

A: I’ve already said that it’s not the right place and you’ve got the wrong guy. I really don’t know how to be any clearer, I really don’t.

[Back and forth asking Ryan’s to release his evidence]

A: Release it! Give the people what they want.

R: I’ll do it on my own channel. [Dec 15th]...

Steven: Anjali is claiming you have the wrong Wayne.

R: I have the same Wayne as you… She already told you the Wayne you had was real…

A: Show it. Put up or shut up.

R: [Says Steven uses a fake name, hangs up]

A: I don’t understand what’s happening here. Scott, were you there, did you go to this mountain with him and meet this man at any point?

Scott: I did not.

A: I wish you had so we could just figure out what in the - does he have anything? What is he doing? What’s happening?

Scott: He told me everything that he told you guys, that he went there. When he first started to begin conversation with this man, he was very aggressive, he was very pissed off. And so Ryan began to slowly tell him y’know who he was, his background, and that eased some things up and then he gave him permission to fly the drone over the property. From what Ryan told me, he said this man knows you, knows your family. 

Kari: Did he show you any proof of that?

Scott: He did not show me anything.

A: Isn’t that odd, don’t you find that strange?

Scott: It is odd. But let me just say this. Everything I’ve done with Ryan in the past, he is very meticulous about what he does, and if he says he has something then he’s definitely got it. So he also spoke about releasing everything on Oli’s show tomorrow. 

Steven: [explains why he uses a stage/working name since age 14]  And I don’t understand his anger at me. And he also left Charlie Wiser - I’m just gonna mention this - a very aggressive message saying that he was going to destroy Charlie Wiser’s reputation, and my reputation, “and by the way he’s fake, cuz his name is fake.” And he left that in a voicemail and I have a copy of it. I don’t wanna go there though. I don’t have anything against Ryan. Until things got so contentious between us, he was angry - not the right word - he wasn’t happy that I wouldn’t release the location to him, but I made a promise and I wanted to keep it. And I figured that somebody would leak it and he’d get it anyway, and he did. So I’m sorry that he’s upset with me… [talks about bluffing a fraud in the past, who caved] So it is within the realm of possibility that he [Ryan] bluffed and he thought you would admit that this was all a fantasy or a LARP.

A: Well I just want to remind everyone that from the beginning I made it super clear in my experience that I met them in a coffee shop and we spent less than a 24-hour period together. Fifteen hours, tops. That’s it. And I have not been in the same place with them - I’ve spoken with them and I have Facetimed with them and I have messaged with them, but I have not been in the same place with them. They never met my family. What’s being proposed is so ridiculous. So if he truly has that evidence, I wanna see it.

S: He seems to think having pictures of the location that I found is proof, but it’s not proof because you’re now saying that’s not the correct location.

Kari: What happens if the pictures turn out to be real?

A: There’s no way. It’s impossible. It’s not in the realm of possibility because I never took pictures with these people. Ever. Ever. I was in the physical location with them for 15 hours tops. That’s it. They have no contact with my family. Something is awry. Somebody is making something up. And if it isn’t Ryan, then who is it? Because he’s the one who’s being very very flaky right now. This is like the hugest news and he’s just gonna sit on it and keep popping in and out? And just say hurtful things or rude things and then leave? I mean come on! We’re all here right now. It just doesn’t make any sense to me. I don’t understand what is happening right now.

S: …There’s an awful lot of people calling Anjali a scammer. To my knowledge she has not made a single penny off of the story and has stated that she doesn’t plan to or want to make money off the story, so I think those attacks are really not fair. Other people have said I’ve been too fair and I see that side of it, especially now with the revelation that I was somewhat misled.

A: I’m sorry. [shrugs]

Kari: You mentioned people have been offering you money to not talk about your story. How were they doing that? Email, text, in person?

A: It’s been mostly through DMs. I’d be very happy to provide…

S: I’m aware of at least one other person that has offered you $100,000 cash to take him and prove your alien claims.

A: Yeah, yeah.

S: Ryan is saying he paid her Wayne $1000.

Scott: That’s what Ryan told me today. He paid him $1000 to fly over the property, to do [interview?]

A: Good for Wayne!

Scott: If this person is the wrong Wayne, and people had maybe contacted him before Ryan got to him, and he took in some of this information about what’s going on, is he playing Ryan? Anjali, you approached this tunnel with four other people. Is there any chance one of the other four could come forward to back your story? Even anonymously in a silhouette form?

​A: There were two couples that made the four - so Wayne and Trisha, so you’re referring to the other couple? I only know his first name and the state he lives in. So it’s a possibility and it’s something that we’re considering. That’s about as much as I know, what his first name is. I have a pretty good handle on hers, and then their state and about what time they may have moved. So that should help me to be able to contact them.

S: [both Ryan and Anjali need to come forward with proof]

A: I don’t have any proof. I’ve said that from the beginning. I’m trying to bring - I just have my testimony right now. I’m just offering my personal testimony and my time and energy to this but I don’t have anything. If I had it, I would give it to you right now. If I had right now, somehow I got it, I would just give it to you right now, Steven.

Ryan: [returns with “one simple question”] Steven you’re working with the same Wayne as me?

S: Who I believed was the correct Wayne but now she’s saying is not, so I don’t know what to do with that, honestly. I don’t know.

R: So the fake Wayne knows her family…

A: It’s impossible.

R: I have permission to shoot there at the same place Ms Schultz told you was accurate. You have confirmed with Cambian the location… If the location I have is not right, which I’m open to, Cambian are you open to being wrong? 

Steven: Absolutely. I don’t know what to believe because I’ve been misled here, I thought we had the right location, I don’t know.

R: If the location is wrong, Charlie Wiser is also wrong.

Steven: Exactly.

R: I’m wrong. Cambian, you’re wrong.

S: There’s a point you were saying that Charlie Wiser and me and James A Conrad were wrong, and we had the wrong location and you had the right location.

R: I have no idea who James Conrad is,

S: He’s the person who originally found the location you’re speaking of.

R: I don’t know anything about that. I researched on my own. Scott Browne will attest to that. Scott Browne, yeah?

Scott: Yes.

R: I have no idea who you’re talking about. I did this on my own. Scott Browne helped me on my own– [cuts out]

A: [wants to see photos of her and Wayne that Ryan claims to have] [musical break]

[1:40:30] S: …the story is taking new twists and turns. Where we find ourselves is a strange place because now I’m being told that I was initially misled by Ms Anjali about having the correct Wayne and the correct location. Nobody likes to be lied to, I can say that. And I’m not sure I even understand her reasons for doing that except perhaps to buy herself some more time, as she said… [Brings back Scott Browne and Kari] … I was misled and led to believe I had the correct Wayne - at least this is what she’s saying now -  but I didn’t have the correct Wayne… If Anjali misled me, I forgive her but I will say that now everybody who said I was too easy on her are gonna take a victory lap because she lied to me, apparently, from the start of this story.

Kari: It does kinda pop the balloon of any credibility.

S: Yeah there’s that.

Kari: Not that there was any credibility really to begin with as there’s no proof, but the fact that she lied to you from pretty much the get-go, just muddies the waters so much that I don’t think even if she came out with proof that I’d even believe it, unless it was like an alien being in my living room at this point.

S: Where do we see the story going from here? Either the whole thing is gonna crash and burn after tonight and Ryan’s gonna come out with his proof and no one will believe a word she says after tonight, or Ryan won’t and maybe Ryan is off the mark. [Anjali comes back in] I wasn’t sure if you were bouncing out and I wouldn’t blame you if you did cuz this is very stressful.

A: Y’know bouncing isn’t my style. I’m a little bit too tenacious and I’m just confident in what I’m saying and that I’m being honest and truthful about what has happened to me, and about the mess that is being created by –

S: Now we have people accusing me of LARPing and grifting…

Kari: [Asks questions about her DIA background, if she has training in knowing when she’s being deceived]

A: It wasn’t so much looking for deception that I did, it was trying to understand people, how they think and make decisions, so that we could find other ways to engage with them through diplomatic channels. We all have an ability to discern when somebody is being deceptive with us. It’s not always easy. Could my intelligence background have helped me with that? Maybe only in remembering to consider all the details, y’know, getting multiple sources of information…

Kari: [believes she believes her experience, asks if it’s possible this was a military operation to make her think it was aliens]

A: …If that’s the case then it’s an ongoing project, it wasn’t just a one-day hit and run, a one-time hit-and-run even. They visited me at my home, they have had contact with me multiple times in the desert. I remember waking up numerous times to them. I’ve known some sort of being that is in the crafts that we have seen that took me up into this craft when I was a child, and I have multiple witnesses that I was not there. And I explicitly remember being in that craft. And then the conscious communication that I have. So I guess what I’m trying to say is that if this is some kind of military operation, this is like the most intense military operation I have ever heard of. I just don’t even know how you can do this where people can be accessible or it’s just such an ongoing program that is being directed and targeted specifically at me. I’ve never heard of anything like that. And the good news is, I have had similar conversations with friends of mine who are still in the work, and they also agree that they’ve just never heard of anything like that. It’s just not anything they’ve ever heard of.

K: They’ve never heard of military abductions?

A: No, no. They haven’t ever heard of an ongoing program to convince someone that they’d had this experience, and still having this experience. For that to have been a military abduction, everything before that and everything since that is a part of that, because it’s still ongoing. You understand what I’m saying? I’m not saying it isn’t possible, I’m just saying I’ve never heard of anything and I have asked other people who are still working actively–

K: Would these people have clearance to know there was a program like that going on?

A: Yes of course. Yeah, they would be in the know.

Ryan: Can you confirm or deny the photos I’ve shown are your base.

A: For - I don’t even know how many times this is - you’ve got the wrong guy. Your pictures are not of the right— There’s nothing else to say.

R: Thank you. I’m gonna hold onto those and when you get your expedition together, we’ll compare and contrast the imagery.

A: You are so full of bull. Oh my goodness. You’re so full of bull. This is incredible. It’s absolutely incredible. If you have–

R: It’s not me. Steven Cambian has been questioning the same location. It’s not me. [says she’s been pitching her story on Reddit since 2018 but got no traction] [cuts out]

A: please everyone just - I am not lying to you. That man is not my Wayne and I really would - everyone is going to do whatever is their good conscience, I hope, but the person that I know who is Wayne is - he’s quite ill, and this entire situation has stressed him terribly. He is a private man. I have made mistakes and I have owned those with him. I’ve had to own those with him. Our relationship is in a very difficult spot right now because of things like what’s happening right now with Ryan. It put me in a very difficult spot tonight to admit that the person that everyone thought was Wayne isn’t Wayne. It puts me in a very difficult spot but I cannot leave that man out there to go through this. I don’t know if Ryan really did pay this man $1000 for this interview, but if he did, I mean it’s almost like at this point - I’m just really curious about this interview. And earlier I rejoiced a little bit, probably I shouldn’t have, thinking about how this other Wayne is out there and got $1000 to go, yeah, whatever, when the actual Wayne would never ever consider talking to someone for a measly amount of money. You do not know what this man’s expectations are, and I’m telling you a thousand dollars is not gonna cut it.

S: The Wayne that I found is a multi-multi millionaire who builds huge developments of half-million-dollar homes so I don’t know that that guy would just take a thousand dollars to make up some stories. [Questions from chat about the beings, the Tall Whites, and she goes into detail about the aliens and base and that they call her Anjali]

Q from chat: You talked about another couple - did they also see the beings?

A: Oh yes, absolutely.

S: Wouldn’t it be important to get one or both of them to come forward and tell their story for corroboration?

A: I don’t know them, I know less about them than anything. I only have first names and a state, and one of the names I’m not even completely sure of. But they absolutely did see them, and in fact in the coffee shop, when Wayne says to them - we all kinda do a quick introduction - “Yeah, we’re gonna take her to see the aliens”, they’re just like “Cool, cool”. I mean it was just like that. “Cool, cool.” It was just like, “D’you guys wanna come along?” “Yeah, yeah, we’ll come along.” I mean it was that - they were just that cavalier about it.

K: [asks if she’s met people before in a restaurant then gone home with them]

A: The only reason I went was because they said - he had dug a tunnel into the side of a mountain and had discovered the base that was in there, and had met higher beings on top of his mountain. I was going through this conscious contact experience and really trying to understand what was going on. I was really on a search to understand what was going on. If he had just invited me over to their home, um, you know what? Yeah I may have gone and just also sent a pin to my daughter like I did anyway because they were cool people. They were really awesome to sit and talk with and incredibly forthcoming and down to earth and consciously awoken. And I was hearing things that I really needed to hear, and also I had been considering a lot because of the conscious contact that I had at my home. It’s a complicated bag of ingredients, but it all worked.

Scott: You said a family member had witnessed a being appear in the bedroom.

A: Had witnessed a being appear, yes.

Scott: Are there other family members that witnessed this alongside of you?

A: Oh, no, unfortunately, no. There wasn’t. I have other people who are very close to me that I sent my drawings to, and they’ve responded back to me that hey, I’ve met this being, or this is exactly the being that I’ve been dreaming about… So it’s been interesting.

Scott: [asks if she had the desire to take photos in the tunnel]

A: I have to tell you that when I walked around that corner, I really didn’t know if I was going to see - I mean I really didn’t expect to see extraterrestrials, any kind of higher being. I just didn’t know what was happening and I had to figure it out. I was on some kind of journey and I had to figure it out. And so I agreed to go to their house, and we did this thing, and [long pause] honestly I’m just having a hard time with all of this because it was absolutely the greatest event that has ever happened to me, I want to share it with everyone, they want to share it. And they remind me to say this as tough as it’s going to be to hear and all of the reactions that I’ll probably get - that this is a consciousness journey, and they want us to remember that they’re not just wanting to have contact with us, they want conscious communication, they want us to begin to connect to each other consciously. They want us to recognize the unity that we have and our connection to everything that we see that exists. Everything is made of matter and they want us to understand that we are made of matter and that we are beings that can manifest and move matter. And these are all potentials that are locked within us and this is a journey to awaken the consciousness of humanity. And I’m not the only one they’re talking to but so far I am one of the only ones right now who are as vocal and as willing to essentially sacrifice everything to put yourself out there.

Kari: I have a question about Wayne’s location. 

Manny (Area503): [Has questions about her motivations] Do you have any ties to the Defense industry?

A: [she cashed in her retirement early in 2016 when she left work with the USMC because she was sick] I don’t have any ties whatsoever other than a few straggling friends, peers, that I keep in contact with. But I have no professional or financial investments that could benefit from any of this. In fact I have the opposite of investments. I think I probably have more deb–

Kari: Would the beings consider a secondary location, for example if Wayne passed away.

A: First I want to clarify that the last thing we want is for anything to happen to Wayne and he does have a wife who will certainly be doing whatever she would like and need to do in such terrible situation. I really don’t want to talk about that scenario really, it’s like the worst case scenario. Nobody wants that, ever. As far as meeting at another location, I literally begged them - and I talked about this earlier - I begged them when I was in California and they just kept assuring me that everything was okay, I just needed to relax, everything is in order, no it might not happen right this moment, no you need to relax. It was like this repeated, everything is fine, everything will be fine. So I just have to believe that. I’m hoping that they will show me another way forward. I don’t know what to do, but I do know that I have to honor the people who are involved in this as well as honor the public need for understanding of even what I have experienced and continue to experience. I just don’t know what that means [inaudible]

Q: Do the beings still want disclosure in 2021 and are they aware of the complication in you doing the expedition, what do they say?

A: Oh yes. Well that’s what we were just talking about… They say to be still and be patient, that everything is in order. And I don’t understand what the hangup is. Like I was trying to say earlier, I think we just got distracted, is that when I started this arc, I never had any idea that I would be here doing this, so every step of the way it has been nearly as a surprise to me as it has been to everyone else. It has affected my life in a very positive way. Are there negatives? Sure, especially if I choose to focus on them. They did say - I’m sorry but they said a few minutes ago and I almost forget, Steven, but I said that that was something I was afraid would happen, the militarization, the MIC essentially exploding in response to disclosure… Their response was that fear gives room - I don’t know how to say it - fear is like a wedge, they’re saying it wedges in and creates cracks in our thinking.

S: Some people have suggested and I had a theory that what you experienced was a DMT experience and some people have suggested that you went through some kind of guided meditation with Wayne, and that your experience may have been more of a spiritual one than an actual physical one with real physical aliens. Did you meditate with Wayne before the experience or at that time?

A: Well I would love to meditate with Wayne. No, I’m sorry, we did not meditate. There was no meditating going on with any of us. No.

Scott: [asks about old photo of her and others in front of a mountain, she explains it’s friends from work in 2015]

Manny: [asks her about Elizondo’s intentions for disclosure since 2017]

A: 2017 was a very difficult year for me. I spent a quarter of it in the hospital. So I wasn’t really following what was happening at that time. I do not know Lue Elizondo. I don’t know if we were at the Pentagon at the same time, but we certainly didn’t work together. [She feels for what he went through, has no comment on his motivation.] We have to really take him at his word until he shows us otherwise, don’t we?

Manny: [says Lue is inconsistent]

A: People say the same about me, Manny. They say that I’ve been inconsistent and I’ve constantly changed but I haven’t. I haven’t been inconsistent, people just don’t like my answers and when I don’t answer.

Solar Marshall: [goes on about Lue] [asks her to go out and get drunk with him] Can you contact these ETs? 

A: Yeah, usually I think they’re probably a few steps ahead honestly. When I have asked them - I don’t ask a lot of details about them. I’m trying to figure out what’s happening with us. So sometimes beginning the conversation is - I may be thinking about something and they may come in and try to answer a question if I’m thinking about something. They try to advise, guide… I have contact with them daily. There’s a flow of communication, sometimes it’s not even intentional at my end, I can just be thinking about something.

Marshall: Are they in a mountainside because that facilitates their vehicles? Is it beautiful inside?

A: It was very sterile actually.

Marshall: A doctor’s office?

A: I was just about to say, like being in a hospital, kind of that but not. It was sterile like that, I’m not saying it looked like a hospital. It didn’t look like a hospital but it was very sterile. There was no art.

Marshall: How long since you’ve seen them?

A: When you say seen them, do you mean like through conscious contact or been physically in their presence?

Marshall: Oh that’s right, you’re actually talking to them without being physically in their presence. What about COVID-19, can they help us?

A: They say that they have been guiding us.

Marshall: Guiding our government? Scientists?

A: No it’s nothing - there’s only so much that they can do interfere, they say, to even affect a person. You have to be [pause] That’s a really tough question.

Marshall: I’m interested in Talls. Your ETs are pretty tall right?

A: There are several races, they don’t all look alike and they are different heights. The thing is, I’ve experienced that they have the ability to appear at different heights.

Marshall: Do they drive a white egg-shaped craft? Their scout craft.

A: I’ve not seen the ships of the beings that I met in the mountain, okay. I have been inside of a ship that I have posted the description of it from NUFORC on Twitter that… It was disc-shaped. It had rotating lights all around the edge of it that changed colors. They weren’t the same. It did have a dome-ish area to it but it was mostly quite flat. I was inside of the disc. I know more about the inside of where I was than I do [the outside].

Marshall: How advanced was it?

A: Well I was four. So it was a pretty wild experience in general. There were greys there that of course felt very tall to me, and then there were a lot of children that were there. These children all looked a little [makes “weird” hand gesture]... They were more humanoid. I can’t remember their color [of the eyes].

Manny: You said these beings have been in contact with other people. Is that currently?

A: Yes.

Manny: Can we assume they were communicating with people before you as well? For how long?

A: Yes. I believe - my impression is always. From the beginning of our journey here on Earth. They’ve always been in contact with humans, with humanity, that they’re guardians of this world and this creation and the expressions of consciousness that are here to have experiential learning.

[2:52:22] Manny: Is that a job that they have, or a role that they fulfill due to their nature? Is it something they’re assigned to or almost like something they were created to do?

A: Ohh, what a beautiful question. I never even thought of that, that this just who they are. They - I don’t know. They say that they have known humanity from the beginning and that this is a role that they do of their own - they do it because they love. They do it out of love for the creation, and they volunteered to guard the freewill of consciousness to grow here. 

Manny: It’s more they’re not a part of the Earth or of us but of an extension of themselves, that are choosing to be here like I might take in a kitten? If they’ve been here as long as we’ve been here then are they not a part of us?

[2:54:07] A: Well, they say we are all connected, that we are all part of the same source of consciousness, that there is one source from which we have all like grown and that this is how creation spreads and how consciousness learns, that it goes through different phases, and they call those densities. The density refers to - they tell me it’s the density of light consciousness, so not just light, not just consciousness, but light consciousness which I think maybe they’re the same thing and they just wanna say that. I don’t know if, why they say light consciousness but they do. So for them, the time that we have been here together and the things that we have experienced, for them is on a much different flow than it is for us, that we are locked in a very linear - And I know people are going to have so much to say about this, like “Oh we’ve heard these things before.” I really can’t help it, that they’re saying remember that we live a linear experience, it’s part of why we’re here, it’s part of what we chose and what we wanted, we wanted to have this chronological from here to there. They say that they live in the now, that everything is tangible in this moment and that we have that as well, but we have chosen to believe that we are separated from that, we have chosen to live beneath a veil of forgetfulness so we can have an experience and forget who we are, so that we can go through consciousness learning to move out the parts of - no, so that we can move from being divided to coalescing again through a series of self-discovery lessons that happen while our density begins to coalesce. So the idea is that one day, there may be very advanced beings who have - they have reached a state with their body and their consciousness in which they’ll be an aggregate consciousness. It won’t be one single consciousness inhabiting a body, it will be many who have coalesced into light, and become a light - and that light is - what they’re saying is that’s the consciousness energy and so as we grow, we coalesce back into becoming one, so we go through these exercises of separation and self discovery and separation and self discovery and it’s a repetitive cycle that all consciousness goes through and it’s how we spread throughout whatever this is. [3 mins 20 secs]

S: People in the chat have suggested it’s a good idea with Wayne’s permission or not to fly drones to find the entrance to the cave. Would you support that idea?

A: I don’t support it.

S: It may be legal but I’m not sure it’s ethical or moral to do.

A: That’s right. It’s certainly not the kind of work that I want to do. It’s not the kind of team that I want to lead. I’m not going to make a knee-jerk decision on what happens next, but I do know that I have made an obligation and a commitment to Wayne to let him heal, and to leave them alone, and I would just - I know that other people may not honor that and may think it’s bigger than humanity, and I would say that it’s not the right of any of us to do something that could threaten the right of another consciousness to grow and I feel that if this man is under so much stress, and I believe it, I know how it takes a toll on my own health but I haven’t been battling cancer for nearly a decade, y’know, that he has. And it has taken a tremendous toll on him. And that could end up cutting his consciousness journey and his growth cycle short. I don’t have the right to do that and it took a lot of meditating and a lot of really stepping back because earlier this week I felt like “oh, we’ve just got to get out there and figure out what we’re gonna do and we’ll get this evidence.” And I thought “what am I doing? This is insane. This isn’t healthy for anyone” and I just thought, I realize –

Marshall: Go with your consciousness, Anjali.

A: That’s right.

Marshall: ETs are on another level than we are, remember folks, it’s like us looking into an ant farm, it’s like them looking into us. They are far superior to us intelligence, they’ve been around a long time. They’re gonna know if you’re gonna fly a drone. They’re gonna know every move you’re gonna make. If she loses trust with these ETs, it’s over.

A: That’s right. I won’t lose their trust but–

Marshall: If you start flying drones over, you will.

Manny: Let’s say hypothetically speaking Wayne had let you on the property, you took everybody down, you made your point to prove they were down there. What is your next step the to issue forth disclosure and how does that benefit everybody?

A: Okay. So what they want is - they’re saying they want humanity to accept that we’re not alone, and the goal is to get us prepared to live in a world where we are not alone, and to have contact with other beings, because they say that the cycle is ending and the veil is going to lift. I don’t know what that means, but that’s what they say and the veil is what keeps us forgetting who we are, so when that lifts they’re saying that we will remember who we are. But we need to - they want us on that journey now. We’re supposed to be growing and they want to facilitate that growth by assuring us that we aren’t here alone.

Marshall: In other words we’ve gone so backwards that they have to try to get us going on the right track again. Look at our White House folks.

Manny: I agree in a lot of ways, when you look at things like climate change and civil rights. We’re making progress but sometimes it’s two steps forward, one step back. It sounds like they’re using you as a vehicle to prove their own existence by getting you to prove they’re there. Why don’t they just land on the White House lawn and the Kremlin lawn and Beijing and say “we’re real.”

A: Yeah, they’re definitely not just trying to prove their own existence. I don’t understand fully what the growth is that we need to go through before we are ready for them to have open contact with us. I don’t know if there’s an event that they’re waiting for that has to happen, like is there a natural event that could happen? I just don’t know, I just [sighs].

Manny: So they were telling you to bring people down to the base and that at some point that would cause a change in worldview, that everyone - I’m just trying to follow the real world machinations where you hold a press conference and people start talking about it and then they rise up and say, hey you’ve been lying to us for 80 years, we want the truth now. I just don’t understand how that all connects if it’s not just some sort of - and I hate to use the term magical but almost magical transformation and a shift in worldview… If you were successful in the cave then how would that bring about what you want, which is disclosure and this change of consciousness?

A: So, right, okay, so when they were talking to me about soft disclosure at the beginning I really didn’t understand exactly what it was that they were talking about. I think that when they say soft disclosure that that’s just higher-being-talk to nuts-and-bolts people about consciousness. And so I’m gonna be frank, I think that’s what it is. And so I think that all of this could possibly be an effort to slowly grow awareness and a conscious awakening so that we’re all manifesting the same path forward, which is a harmonious existence with each other and with other forms of consciousness that exist around us, both animals that we already share this world with knowingly, and plants and in the water and we’re going to have this other issue of higher beings that are also going to be sharing the planet.

Manny: Did you say they’re going to be sharing the planet with us?

A: They do already, but when the veil drops they’re saying that the world that they share will be–

S: More open.

[3:08:00]How is your health? Is it possible your illness could play a role in your experience? Is there any physical brain anomaly that could possibly cause your visions?

A: No, no, I really appreciate you asking. I have had so many scans of my entire body and the only thing I have is my congenital - my genetic connective tissue disorder. We’re looking at lupus. And - oh, what else is there, is there anything else? [Max prompts: “Vascular stuff.”] Oh yeah I have some vascular issues but no deformities, no growths, nothing that they can - oh, osteoporosis as well. But there’s nothing that anybody can see that could account for the kind of ongoing contact that I have, and my ability to y’know function in the world, have coherent conversations and understand the difference between reality and fantasy, which I have a very good grip on the difference between reality and fantasy. I am not confused about that.

Manny: Anjali, didn't you also reveal online that you were checked out medically within a few days, I think it was, of this event, to make sure that you were okay and nothing came up of that, that you were determined to be okay after that?

​Yep, it was actually much sooner than that. It was the same night. I was checked out by emergency personnel because my daughter was very concerned about me, because I seemed like I had just experienced something that was earth moving and I kept telling her, "I don't understand what's going on," y'know, "I just went into a tunnel and experienced something. I don't understand what's happening. I don't understand what has happened to me." I mean, I'm saying things like this to her, okay? It scared her to death, and because she knew where I was, she called an ambulance. And they came to the house, to their house, where I still was, and they checked me out and they asked me, y'know, "Have you taken any drugs," and I said, "No, just, y'know, I had earlier taken--" And this was like, oh, I think, somewhere between 10PM and midnight probably. And I said, "No I haven't taken anything. I had some medical cannabis resin, y'know, this afternoon, late morning, early afternoon, y'know, I haven't, I haven't had anything else." And they checked all of my vitals, and just talked to me for quite a long time - I'd say probably 10, 15 minutes, and then they said I was fine and they actually left and I stayed there at their home. And it was very tense, y'know, I felt - I was embarrassed. I was terribly embarrassed, but I didn't--

Steven: [Ends the show, other hosts leave] And then there were two. Earlier I joked with you and you joked with me that we’re kind of in this together now. I’ve been following this story since the beginning.

A: I don’t know how that happened. [laughs]

S: I don’t know myself, but here we are and this is where we find ourselves, and regardless of - I’ll take the stones and the arrows because people wanna hear about this story and so do I. So if anybody doesn’t like me hosting you, okay. A lot of people wanna hear more about your story and the story’s gonna continue because now there’s new twists and turns and I hope you will feel comfortable coming back [A: Of course.] knowing that we will always try to be respectful to you, and try to help navigate your story.

A: Absolutely. I’ll come back on your show any time, Steven. No worries. You’ve been a wonderful host and you’ve conducted yourself just wonderfully.

S: I’m doing the best I can up here! I’m just a man.

A: Thank you, I’m grateful. 

S: Now that I’m reminded of your cell phone number maybe I’ll call you offline and talk to you another time.

A: Yeah! Absolutely fine.

S: Thanks very much… Goodnight and God bless Anjali.

​[Steven debriefs with Kari and Manny]

S: Now there's two locations. There’s the original location that Anjali is now saying she misled me to believe was the correct Wayne when it’s not, which I’m a little - I don’t know how to feel about that, I have to process that, I couldn’t do it live on air. I can’t process that. I trusted her. She told me that was the right location, “Please, god, don’t release it because this guy’s gotta remain private.” Now she’s saying “It’s not the right Wayne, I misled you.”

Manny: …You’ve got a pretty good BS sniffer and you said you fully believed her when she said that, so she did a pretty convincing job of leading you to believe that was–

S: I believed her initially. I absolutely believed her initially because she was pleading with me, “Please, you have to talk to me about this, don’t just release this information, talk to me please.” And I thought, “I got him then! I nailed the guy. I got the mountain, I got the location, why else would she be pleading with me right after I emailed her this 10 pages of research on this Wayne that we found. So now we hear she’s claiming now that she misled me, for whatever reason, but it is what it is… I don’t know what I think of her credibility. I think it took a hit with me because she admitted to lying to me, so to me her credibility took a hit. Am I still interested in the story? Yes. I’m trying to divorce myself from being like, “F her, she lied to me, so she must be a liar about everything.” I’m trying to be fair here. 

Kari: What kind of out did she have, in that moment though? … you have to wonder, was it a calculated move, “Oh I have to admit this now because I’ve been caught out.”

S: …If she’s willing to lie about that, what else is she willing to lie about?

Manny: …I’m getting that same vibe from Anjali [as with Lazar] - I feel like she’s being sincere but maybe she’s being misled, or maybe she’s being manipulated or something like that, in some way.

​[3:55:55] S... [re. Wayne] She told me on the phone earlier that she believes that he’s gonna soften, he’s just upset because he’s following people on the internet and following what everybody’s saying, and him and his wife are very upset and they think that people eventually are gonna find him, cuz she claims that him is not the him we thought, the Wayne that we thought, the Wayne that Ryan found, and I found, and Charlie Wiser and others, or the Wayne that people have been sharing all over Twitter. And I disagree with anybody sharing this information on Twitter because you’re doxing the man, his home, giving satellite images of his house is an invasion of privacy. He may not have anything to do with it, might be the wrong guy. And also people are jokingly - some jokingly, some seriously blaming me for why this expedition won’t go forward. I never released anything publicly. I kept my word. She verified that tonight. So did Ryan. I wouldn’t even give it to Ryan or other researchers who asked me. I said I promised her I wouldn’t do it until after December, release any of my information, I’m gonna keep my word. Because sources aren’t gonna trust me if I give them my word and then break it, so to me I have no choice but to keep my mouth shut…

Nov 5, 2021 Alien Addict panel discussion

With: Oli [Alien Addict], Anjali, Scott [Browne], Rich [GUFON], Osvaldo [Franco], RG [Orion Adventures/Ryan Gordon]
[After RG presents text messages purportedly from "Wayne", and claims to have a photo of Wayne with Anjali as well as an on-camera interview, Anjali joins the panel.]
 
Anjali: I’ve been listening long enough to make some fake text message screenshots between you [Oli] and Ryan… to prove it took me about two minutes to do. Come on. Come on.
 
Oli/AlienAddict: …Personally I don’t believe you but I don’t believe in aliens… like the majority of the community does… I think you want to be like the next Stephenie [Meyer] and I think you’re gonna do a fantastic book.
 
A: You know why book 2 never came out? Because I have a difficult time putting in the time and effort that it takes to write a novel now. It’s very exhausting and I haven’t had the desire to finish and promote it. If I was going to, it certainly wouldn’t be like this where I sit on panels for hours every week and listen to a bunch of guys who claim to be scientists accept the sketchiest crap as evidence. I wouldn’t waste my time with this, because that’s what this is. You call me a distraction? Okay. Look in the mirror at what you are accepting as evidence right now. You need to call him [Ryan Gordon] on the ground because I’m willing to call and ask the gentleman if he would allow me to record him, but what does that prove? Do I bring that to you? Then what happens?
 
RG: If you’d be willing, let’s just get him on the line right now.
 
A: Well I’m not willing to do that. I’ve never even spoken to this man. Why don’t you call him right now?
 
RG: I apologize, I thought you were talking about your Wayne, that you could get him on the phone. Are you willing to get your Wayne on the phone?
 
A: No way, he doesn’t want to have anything to do with what’s going on especially on this kind of panel.
 
RG: Same with my Wayne.
 
A: Yeah, I bet.
 
Scott Browne: [vouches for Ryan]
 
A: Have you spoken to this Wayne?
 
Scott: I have not. … He [Ryan]'s never been dishonest with us.
 
RG: I had spoken to him by phone already. I had a pre-planned trip to the SoCal area, and I did call and let him know – he’s on camera, we interviewed, I paid him for his time, I’ve sent a copy of the cashiers check to prove it, to Oli. I didn’t ambush somebody. I wouldn’t do that.
 
A: From the recounting it sounds like he was incredibly upset when he found you on his property with the drone. Is that not true?
 
RG: No, not sure where you got that. No, I had full permission to do it.
 
Oli: Your Wayne’s not upset?
 
A: Actually I refuse to speak for Wayne regarding his thoughts regarding this. He has thoughts and they’re not pretty, and they’re not favorable, and it’s not looking bad for me.
 
RG: We’re taking about the same person still.
 
A: Darling, we are not. You may have been duped by this guy, and given him a thousand dollars, and he’s like, sure, whatever. I think that is actually incredibly likely. As far as him bringing up the names of my children and stuff, I don’t know where that came from. Saying that Wayne did, that there was contact with my family.
 
RG: That’s correct, yeah.
 
A: And that I had contact with his ex-wife, and that they were on vacation when we met. None of this is correct. …He is being duped by this other man and it would be kind of fun to have him on.
 
RG: [talks about similarities between his Wayne and hers] Am I wrong with any of those qualifiers?
 
A: The problem that seems to be hang-up, and the irony at the same time, is that even though from day one I have said that I changed everyone’s name, you completely seem to overlook that. This is actually the worst coincidence that I’ve ever heard of. I feel horrible, that’s why I want to talk to him personally. I need to apologize to him for – I don’t know, I picked a name that I thought, well nobody names their kid Wayne anymore. Let’s do it, that sounds great.
 
RG: So you just think it’s an incredible coincidence…? You even mentioned hiking trails behind the house.
 
A: No I didn’t… in fact I warned people to stay the heck off his property and away from it.
 
RG: Yeah I do recall armed guards.
 
A: Yeah! Definitely not hiking trails.
 
Scott: Don’t you find it a weird irony/coincidence that the coordinates and the person that you verified with Steven Cambian is the person that Ryan has called.
 
A: We should actually check with Steve Cambian and have him decide to share the private messages where when he revealed everything to me, because I wasn’t sure what was happening, and I was in damage control mode, and I was also wondering – he seemed awfully certain that he had something, and that made me very concerned for that person. So he sent me the information, I was incredibly relieved that it was not the correct person, and then all I said in return after he sent me that, is “Would you please wait, and if you wait I will get you an interview after the expedition. If you would just not release any information, until after that.” I misled him, but I did not confirm and say yes. And that’s a lesson he’s now learned. You can ask him about that. I did act to protect my friends.
 
RG: When you were on Amy/Aliengirl, her show, there in the beginning, I don’t remember the question, something about Wayne being doxed. And you said you had contacted Twitter and other avenues to get this information removed as a way to protect Wayne. This is still the same Wayne I’m talking to.
 
A: No, no, no… that’s incorrect, I never said that.
 
RG: You never talked about contacting Twitter? Because somebody, and I have an idea who, somebody –
 
A: You don’t even know who asked? Or exactly what they asked? Do you have the transcript or video of it? Aren’t you a producer who does research?
 
RG: Wow. Okay, well to be fair I wasn’t expecting you to be on the show tonight, so I did not come prepared to speak with you about that. However it is on Aliengirl’s show…
 
A: …What you’re implying is that I verified on Aliengirl that the correct person was doxed. The thing is, I realize that what’s been difficult with all of this situation is this has been my experience, and other people who have been involved have not been willing to step forward, okay. I understand that. I understand how that looks. And I also have been extremely considered[?] in what I have experienced, in how I met this couple who I am very protective of, especially at this point when I’m sitting before this panel that is just – you guys are so easily persuaded with this man and we really need to –
 
RG: You have to admit he matches your story identically…
 
A: But his name isn’t Wayne.
 
RG: You’re the one who told us that was his name.
 
A: No I said from the beginning that it was an alias. I have said that repeatedly. You guys just choose to ignore it because it’s your narrative.
 
[discussion of what Anjali said about Twitter on Aliengirl]
 
RG: … but we’re still talking about the same guy. You have to remember, I’ve been to the property.
 
A: Yeah, it doesn’t fit the description.
 
RG: It fits the description to a perfect tee.
 
A: Okay.
 
Scott: When you originally put your book out, were you doing book signings at coffee shops in the local area?
 
A: When I first put my book out, that was back in 2013, that was in Aberdeen, South Dakota, at a coffee shop of course, yes. But it was in Aberdeen.
 
RG: I understand that you want to accuse me of forging text messages, but how would I know that right there? How would I know that to get it into this text?
 
A: Are you kidding me?
 
RG: How would I know that you went to coffee places to pitch your books, just like Wayne said? How would I know that?
 
A: You know because I put out a press release about it, about the coffee house, absolutely. Everything that you’re saying is public domain information.
 
RG: You’re avoiding the question – about trying to sell and promote your book at a coffee shop.
 
A: Yeah, that’s right. Please raise your hand if you’ve been to a coffee shop. I love coffee.
 
RG: We’re talking about selling books and setting up a makeshift – it’s very common, Barnes & Noble does it all the time, authors will come in, they’ll sell their books, a little meet n’ greet.
 
A: Yeah, that’s nothing to do with this.
 
RG: My point is the same, how would I know that you did that? For me to forge – how would I know that? You don’t have a press release of you selling books.
 
A: Because it’s all over the internet. Anybody can google it and find the information.
 
RG: No, that’s false.
 
Rich: No, it’s true. There’s a timeline of events that somebody made up.
 
Scott: What Ryan’s trying to say is there’s no real record of her signing books at coffee shops. We know she was at the coffee shop but the text messages talk about the signing of books at the coffee shop.
 
A: I wasn’t signing books at that coffee shop that morning, I was on a date. I was on a date… So not only did this man not go to a book signing, or talk to me about my book, or ever meet me. If he bought my book then he would have to have gotten it online, because you can only get the hardcopies through me. Unless he can produce that, then I’m calling a bluff again. The only think I would sell at a coffee shop would be hard print books.
 
RG: I don’t think it really matters if it’s soft cover or hard cover.
 
A: If course it matters, because he’s claiming that he bought my book from me. What I’m saying is that I sign – I have a message that I say at the beginning, it’s what I say to everyone, and then a personal message, then I sign it and date it. So what I’m saying is, let’s see it. Because it did not happen. He’s either lying to you, or you are trying to call a bluff and it’s a really bad one.
 
Oli: Anjali, I’ve seen the payment to Wayne.
 
A: I believe that he has given a man money. I believe it.
 
Oli: But that wouldn’t show anything. It would show he’s paid it.
 
RG: What she’s trying to say in summary is this is simply the biggest coincidence in the world.
 
A: That is exactly what I’m saying. It’s unfortunate. Shocking, actually.
 
Oli: Do you think he’s been ripped off?
 
A: Do I think that the Wayne that has been harassed by this guy and got a thousand dollars for it? Do I think he’s been ripped off?
 
Oli: You said on Cambian’s show last night that the real Wayne would never sell out for a thousand [dollars].
 
A: No, never, it’s laughable. Laughable. He wants millions of dollars for his property.
 
Oli: Why would this other Wayne know who you are? Is Ryan lying?
 
A: I don’t know. Either he is lying, or Wayne that he interviewed is lying.
 
Oli: So Wayne could be some sort of –
 
A: I’m saying he might be a man who’s just getting a thousand bucks from a guy who won’t leave him alone.
 
Oli: So he could be an undercover Wayne.
 
A: Oh I’m not saying that. Well, maybe, yeah. Maybe. I don’t know.
 
Rich: He could’ve paid somebody to be Wayne, for a thousand dollars. He could’ve said, “Read this” – could be a friend of his for all we know.
 
A: That’s what I’m saying. I wanna see these pictures.
 
Oli: I don’t see the profit in it for Ryan, though.
 
RG: No that’s just really silly. Remember this Wayne fits every qualifier that she has put out.
 
Oli: Ryan, this is the same Wayne that Steven found.
 
RG: It’s the same Wayne that Steven talked to as well, yes. It sounds like at least for my intent, is we have a guy that matches all qualifiers … I’d have better luck winning the lottery. So if that’s what it is, then that’s what it is and I’m okay with just leaving it at that. Just the biggest coincidence in human history.
 
A: I think you should release everything that you have, that’s what I think. That’s why I’m here, man. I have given you so many hours of my life that I will never get back. All on this BS that you’re promoting, and you may not – I will give you the benefit of the doubt only because I like Scott, okay. I’m gonna take his word that you’re a decent person, and that you’re meticulous and that you’re – I’m gonna take his word for it. Because he’s displaying the characteristics he says you display. Cuz I’m not seeing it from you, alright, I’m not seeing it at all. So I will give you the benefit of the doubt that you are on the up and up, and this guy is taking you for a ride. And if that’s the case, he’s taken us all for a ride and the big joke’s on him, right? So I’d like you to bring it all forward so we can just get on with it.
 
RG: I’ll make a deal with you. I’ll match you piece for piece for evidence.
 
A: I don’t want a deal with you. You are skeevy. I’m not making a deal with you. You have not proven to me to be the kind of man that deserves that kind of time from me. So, next.
 
RG: Well you’re here right now, aren’t you.
 
A: I don’t want any kind of deal with you. No deal.
 
RG: I just said that I’ll match you evidence for evidence.
 
A: I already told you, I don’t want any deal
 
RG: So you won’t do it.
 
A: I want you to release what you claim –
 
RG: Scott, since she likes you, you have everything, do you want to do the deal?
 
A: Please!
 
Scott: What’s the deal?
 
Rich: … We all have our personal [experiences] that nobody would ever believe… I predicted she’ll never go to that cave and get evidence with researchers. Stuff happened and it didn’t happen... She had a personal experience about it, and we’re getting a lot of conflicting stories with Ryan’s addition to this. I’m really frustrated by the whole thing. I just wish there was a shred of evidence I could see that would say, that’s Wayne and that’s the cave or the tunnel where the base is. I don’t know if we’re ever gonna get that.
 
Oli: You’re saying it’s down to some sort of psychedelic?
 
Rich: No, I never said that.
 
Oli: … I don’t believe that drugs would make you stand in front of an audience and put yourself out on YouTube and say that there is a cave over one crazy trip… Anjali, I still don’t believe you, I think you’re writing a book.
 
A: I’m not writing a book. And I’ve also said that if I did write a book that was related to this experience, that I would post it online for free. So what in the world do you think my motivation would be? I have made it clear, multiple times, heads up everybody, I’m saying it again. If I write a book about this experience and this journey and even what’s happening right now, I think it’s important enough that everyone on this planet should have access to it. And that’s why I released my novel, and that’s why I will release any book that I write. I have no desire for your money. Keep it. I don’t want your notoriety. This is nothing but a headache in my life… I think that if you have genuine questions or criticisms or statements, criticism towards my experience or even how I’ve handled it, I think we can have a respectful dialogue and that if you don’t want to just sit, I think that’s okay. I’m telling you I’m willing to engage in a very difficult dialogue with you whenever you’re ready.
 
Oli: On Aliengirl’s show it seemed to me you were skirting the questions. You’re very intelligent, very good at [maneuvring the conversation]. You’re really talented at getting people on your side.
 
A: I know exactly why you feel this way… I recently said to [Amy/Aliengirl] I’m very sorry for how we answered questions on your show. I feel like we started each question in the right direction and then… we got off topic and a lot of times, there were a lot of questions that did not get answered. I said I would be willing to come on your show at any time to re-answer those questions. I apologize. And you can ask Amy about that right now.
 
Oli: I’m not having a go. You are extremely talented when it comes to somebody asking you a question and then you will maneuver that question in a different direction.
 
A: I’m not trying to.
 
Oli: [asks about who she was with at the press conference]
 
A: [says the crew who were there filming were not with her] Thank god they were there, because things were a wreck and I needed their help. I have answered the question so many times! You guys claim to be doing tight research. I have been so clear on this from the beginning.
 
Oli: Do you not think we should research this when somebody’s got a big claim?
 
A: I’m saying, I have repeated it so many times, how can it still be your question?
 
Oli: The community is sick and tired of so many people coming out and spinning a story. You have to understand and respect these people that have a problem with your story because at the same time you say Ryan is not showing any evidence, I’m sorry love, you’re not showing any evidence either.
 
A: And I haven’t claimed to have it. That is the difference that is going on here. He’s making claims to have it. I only gave you testimony, and that I would do everything in my power to lead this expedition that I thought was on target.
 
RG: So the only dispute it seems is a picture of you and Wayne together. Cuz that’s the only thing I’ve ever said. You say evidence, I have a lot? I don’t, to be clear. I only talked to Wayne for an hour. Went to the property, flew my drone around.
 
A: You have video of your interview.
 
RG: But at this point, what does it matter if I have the wrong guy, that has a picture with you, too.
 
A: Are you kidding me?
 
RG: Well if I have the wrong guy, then what difference does that make?
 
A: Please, would you please just show me. Please show me.
 
RG: If I have the wrong guy, I’m asking you why should we do that, if I have the wrong guy?
 
Rich: To prove it.
 
RG: No matter who I showed she’s gonna tell me it’s the wrong guy.
 
Rich: Maybe she won’t.
 
RG: Oh she will. Doesn’t matter what I say, what I put out, she will deny. And that’s the point Oli had brought up earlier and he’s 100% on the money.
 
A: [answers question about what we’ve called the beings – demi-gods etc.] The beings that I know do not have a personal name. They have like an image they send that tells you what you need to know about who you’re talking to. That image has a lot of information, I don’t know how else to describe it than how I have repeatedly said, just feels like a download where you suddenly just have this information. [talks at length about conscious communication]
 
A: [answers question about the other couple in the coffee shop] “Wayne”, not his real name, told them he was going to go show me the aliens. And the guy said “yeah sure, let’s go, let’s do it, sounds cool.” It was so nonchalant that I didn’t even understand exactly what I was getting into. But I knew whatever it was, I didn’t feel there was anything harmful going on. Because they had given me their phone number, I had the information in my phone. They just wouldn’t have done that otherwise. The other couple… accompanied us to the tunnel and into the tunnel, and to the edge of the base, upon which time I stepped forward into the base while they were speaking to me, and to them, saying they needed to go. My friend to his credit refused to leave, he said no, he didn’t want to go. I think he was a little apprehensive about leaving me there. He knew I had sent this information to people to let them know where I was and who I was with. I don’t know that that’s why he stayed there, but he didn’t want to leave and he objected. And so the Grey said – because the Grey was the only one speaking, the Tall Whites –
 
Oli: Anjali, we’ve heard the story.
 
A: So sorry. I forgot what the question was.
 
Scott: Let’s say hypothetically you never met this guy. But in the meantime he’s tunnelling into this hill, he finds this base. So what was he gonna do with that information if he didn’t run into you?
 
A: I think that the purpose was to run into me. I think that that may have been the purpose. For all of this to happen so we’re doing this right now.
 
Oli: Almost like you were chosen. See, that I can buy. These beings speak to you. Do you speak to them back?
 
A: I can, yes. I am still learning how to put together the images –
 
Oli: They said hello to Steven Cambian. So they like him?
 
A: I think they like everyone.
 
Oli: Do they know about others? For example, everybody in this group?
 
A: Oh absolutely. Of course they do. They know that this is happening.
 
NOTE: DURING THE FOLLOWING "TEST", ANJALI IS CLEARLY READING SOMETHING IN HER LAP
 
[1:48:04] Oli: So, what’s my number?
 
A: I don’t know your number.
 
Oli: Ask them what my number is.
 
A: No. I’m not going to –
 
Oli: Not my mobile number, just my number. It’s just two numbers.
 
A: I don’t know. No.
 
Oli: Cuz I believe in that. And I think there’s something to do with these two numbers in this field.
 
[Anjali nods and says okay to someone off-camera]
 
Rich: There’s a certain number that shows up in Oli’s mind in physical –
 
[Anjali looks down at something]
 
Rich: - he sees it everywhere he goes and he’s asking if you could figure out what that number is.
 
A: I don’t know -
 
Oli: No not Anjali, the aliens….
 
[Anjali looks down at something, looks up, nods thanks at someone, looks down again and moves her hand, moves her eyes as if reading for a further 6 seconds - see my Twitter thread for the evidence that she cheated and lied in order to pretend her higher beings divined the number.]
 
A: [50 seconds after being asked] Is it 33?
 
Rich: Yes.
 
Oli: Holy shit. Okay.
 
A: Thank you.
 
Oli: How did you know that?
 
A: They told me.
 
RG: Because you have it on your YouTube channel.
 
A: Do you? [shrugs dramatically]
 
RG: You have an entire video about it. It’s not that hard. She’s got her partner, husband back there researching stuff.
 
A: No, that is –
 
Oli: I’m impressed by that. Even if that is the case, that’s good research.
 
A: That isn’t the case. … So guess what? My favorite number is 33 and that’s pretty easy to fine, it’s all over my history… [shows her empty lap]
 
RG: …If her higher beings are that quick, why didn’t they warn her about Wayne?
 
A: I don’t know.
 
RG: Did you have any idea why they would allow that to happen to you? You said it’s been pretty rough.
 
A: Happen to me? No, nothing is happening to me. Sometimes it can be difficult but as far as everything that I can ascertain, I signed up for this. This sounds like exactly what I signed up for. Because I am having the craziest wild experience. You think 33 is something? My life is insane.
 
RG: If they were able to do that… why did they allow another Wayne that matches all your qualifiers, why didn’t they tell you to name the guy Bob or something?
 
A: I have no idea. I think my frustration was really clear when I was on Aliengirl. I had a few days where I continually said, “Are you – you’ve been misleading me all this time. What is going on? Have you abandoned me?”
 
RG: In what sense do you think they were misleading you?
 
A: Because I couldn’t understand how they would say, “Okay it’s time to go to California, I got to California –
 
RG: Yeah we were there at the same time.
 
A: I know, I know. I thought about saying hi.
 
RG: I’m enjoying speaking to you and I’m glad that we can have a nice conversation, and thank you for that. I know you kinda view me as an enemy or something… I have an offer – you tell me you don’t like an offer, but it’s okay, I’m gonna make it to you anyway. When you’re ready to go to your base, whether that be tomorrow or whenever the timing is right for you, I have a nine-figure deal where you can take that money and put it to a charity or whatever you like. The only thing we need at the network is just one camera, and that’s a nine-figure deal. So just hold onto that. I know you’re mad at me right now and don’t really like that, but just keep that in the back of your head.
 
A: I think you’re being foolish if you don’t realize that this man has played you. Or you’re lying.
 
RG: No, I’m saying let’s just go. Let’s forget builder Wayne -
 
A: No, absolutely not. We are not forgetting it.
 
RG: - cuz your guy’s not named Wayne, so when I say Wayne it’s different. That’s not what we’re talking about. I’m saying when you’re ready to go to your tunnel, I’ve got a nine-figure deal for you, when you’re ready. And I’m happy to show you that on letterhead from a major network. I can just email it to you, right now.
 
A: Yeah, you can do that right now. And I will gladly let your network know how they really ought to rethink you as a producer, since you –
 
RG: Well shoot, we were just getting along so well, and now here comes the venom again.
 
A: No, we’re not. We’re just being peaceful. I mean that’s what we’re trying to do here. I want to see the picture that you claim to have of me and this gentleman because it’s impossible for either - if you ever produce it, either you are purposely producing fake material, or I can’t even believe that he would do that. Why would this man that you’re claiming fits the description, is a millionaire, and all this, why would he do any of this for a thousand dollars?
 
RG: I mean a thousand dollars an hour is pretty good pay. More than I make. More than anybody I know makes. Thousand dollars an hour, that’s good money. Through and through, look I’m very open, like I said earlier, hundred percent open, it’s just the biggest coincidence in UFOlogy I suppose, and I’m okay leaving it at that.
 
A: No. We’re not leaving it. Do you see how he is trying to wiggle out of this? Come on, man.
 
RG: No I’m not, I’m saying I’m okay with what you’re saying. I’m okay with it. I’m still moving forward but I’m also telling you that I’m hearing and respecting this. I should go buy a lottery ticket tonight, jeez.
 
A: No, you’re very unlucky. You’re actually quite unlucky right now.
 
[panel points out 33 is a very common favorite number]
 
A: All of us on the panel love it. It’s not a secret. But you’re asking me what the number was and I gave it to you, and now… think what you want about how I received it. I’m sorry.
 
Rich: It was popping up in chat immediately after Oli said what’s the number, so they’re saying she got it from the chatroom.
 
A: Okay, well, I didn’t.
 
RG: Let’s come up with something else that she –
 
Os: I’ve got a number. Can you guess my number?
 
A: Guys, guys, I came here tonight because Ryan is claiming to have a photograph of me with someone, and I’m here to see it. I don’t know what else we’re doing. I think this is some little game and I’m actually getting really tired of it. And as a community, and people who are dedicated to science and evidence, I think people should take a step back and rethink what is happening. And I mean you too, Ryan. You too. Because you got the wrong guy, and this is really not gonna turn out well in the end.
 
RG: What do you mean, not turn out well for who? The worst case for me is I just lost a thousand dollars. Okay.
 
A: Well I think a little bit more than that. But that’s for –
 
RG: How so? Whaddya mean? More than what?
 
A: You don’t think there are going to be repercussions? Every time we come forward and say something here, there are repercussions. And you have claimed to have huge ground-breaking evidence that I have made this all up, or whatever it is, that none of it’s true. And yet you won’t show it.
 
Rich: You gotta show the pic, man, or show her.
 
RG: Respectfully, I’m not the one saying there’s a bunch of people living in a cave. I’m not here to help you pitch your story. I’m here as my job –
 
A: No no no, that doesn’t work.
 
RG: I’ve told Oli already that if I’m not able to get a deal on this, that I’m giving him the exclusive to all of the footage and everything I have so, yeah. There we go.
 
A: I’m just waiting for the picture. I’m sorry because –
 
RG: I’m waiting for the tunnel.
 
A: That’s not why we’re here today. We’re not here for the tunnel today. None of us are here today for the tunnel. I’ve made it very clear that I cannot produce that evidence. I have made that very clear that at this time there’s no availability to that property for me to produce evidence.
 
Scott: Then again, let’s say he produces the photo. Nothing’s gonna stop you from saying he created it. Cuz you’ve already said he created the text messages.
 
A: I just need to know, we’ll have to drill down on who has faked that photo. And then what I choose to do from there, that’s my personal business.
 
RG: See, there we go.
 
Scott: My degree is in Photoshop and digital imaging. And this stuff is very very easy to fake.
 
A: That’s right.
 
Scott: But I’m going to go as far as to say that Ryan is not faking information to put it out there. He’s gathering information, he’s not the kind of person who would go out there and fake things like that. So me personally, I have not seen the photograph. He’s told me about it but I have not seen it.
 
A: Why?
 
Rich: What color hair does he have? Wayne.
 
RG: Wayne? He’s a skinnier guy that has grey hair.
 
A: [laughs] No.
 
RG: That could be anybody, but – look, I’m happy to give Oli all of the information.
 
A: Please, can we do it right now? What in the heck are we waiting for?
 
RG: I’m waiting on a deal. This is what I do for work. I’m trying to make a deal here.
 
A: I will never give you a deal with this kind of behavior.
 
RG: Not with you.
 
A: Okay good. Well, you’ve been trying.
 
RG: No, I haven’t been trying.
 
A: Did you not all hear this nine-figure deal he’s trying to pitch?
 
RG: I just said, when you’re ready to go.
 
A: Okay, like I said.
 
Oli: That’s what Ryan does. He can’t -
 
RG: That’s what I do for work. To be clear, I didn’t contact Oli to come and like, “Oh, I have all this evidence.” I didn’t.
 
Oli: I contacted him.
 
RG: He came to me. I’m not like you that’s holding a press conference to say all these things. I’m not.
 
Oli: For the record, Ryan did not want to come on tonight, at all. He canceled. I had to ring him.
 
A: That doesn’t make any difference to me. I didn’t want to be here tonight either.
 
RG: Of course you do! You’re trying to –
 
A: I’m just here to see this sketchy evidence that we’re still not seeing, because I’ve already shown how easy to is – I did it in less than 2 minutes, I produced screenshots of fake texts between you and Rich. With a screenshot of the show in it to prove that I just did it. So you know what, back up with those texts and show us the evidence.
 
RG: But what you didn’t do – you need to know the attitude. I’m really like, I’m getting tired Oli. I’m tired of this. At this point the only thing we’re doing is giving her a platform. It’s getting old. This is the right Wayne. Everything about it is right. The guy knows her family, knows all these names. He knows everything.
 
A: Wow. Please post the picture. [---] his face.
 
RG: It’s the right guy. It’s the right guy. I’m not worried. It’s the right guy.
 
A: Let’s see it. This is gonna be very very embarrassing for you if you continue down this road. I am trying to help you.
 
RG: Me? I’m not the one trying to say there’s a bunch of things living in a tunnel in the middle of SoCal. My goodness, I know you’re projecting a lot on me here, but it’s kinda getting old. Like anybody can see right through what you’re doing. You’re really - it’s just getting really tiresome.
 
A: It’s not the right guy, man. It’s just not the right guy. And I’m trying to save you from the road that you are going down. [inaudible]
 
RG: I don’t need any help.
 
A: [inaudible] Oh my goodness. Go for it, please.
 
RG: This is just her condescending, like this is – what the heck?
 
A: No, I’m not trying to be condescending, man, I’m saying you have got the wrong guy. I am pleading with you to understand.
 
RG: And I told you, I’m okay with it. I told you I’m okay with that.
 
A: Well then show us the evidence that you claim to have. Show it to Oli right now.
 
RG: I will. Oli’s gonna have the exclusive on it.
 
A: Just give him the photo.
 
Oli: I don’t have it yet. I don’t have it.
 
A: What’s the hold up?
 
RG: D’you see the texts?
 
Oli: Yes.
 
RG: Look if I would’ve come to Oli and said let me show you all these things, your complaints or what you’re saying would be so valid. But that’s not what happened. That’s not what’s going on. And Oli at this point, we’ve had many conversations – I kinda need you to stand up here.
 
Oli: Yeah. Listen, Anjali, at the end of the day I believe Ryan’s telling the truth completely, and nothing but the truth so help him God.
 
A: So how did photos from AllTrails.com end up in his line of pics that he took? The shadows all match up. I’ve seen them. Please explain.
 
Oli: Yeah, he sent me those. And he said that was from AllTrails.
 
RG: I’ve always said they’re from that.
 
A: He said they were from a drone.
 
RG: No that’s not true.
 
Oli: No, he has the drone footage. The drone footage is there, trust me.
 
RG: Even tonight we said those were from AllTrails. That’s false.
 
A: That they’re on AllTrails?
 
RG: Every time the pictures come up – Rich asked me about them here on this show tonight. I said, no those are from an app called AllTrails.
 
A: That’s right. They’re from an app called AllTrails.
 
RG: And that’s always been the story. Have you ever heard of a strawman argument?
 
Oli: Ryan, with what Wayne has said today - obviously we both tried to contact him – does it still stand, the deadline? Or is that different now?
 
RG: No, let’s keep it that. There’s no reason for it not to be.
 
A: I’m saying there is, there’s a reason for it, and it’s because the information that you have is false, and I am –
 
RG: Then just let it go. You keep saying that, you’re awfully bent out of shape for something you say is false. So just let it go.
 
A: Oli, please, may I finish? Okay, thank you. What the heck? Do you remember what I was saying? [Off camera: “The information is false and going down the wrong road.”] I have an apology to make for interrupting. I am sorry about that. When I’m interrupted, I do have short-term memory issues, so I’m sorry. I used to have the tightest – my mind was like a vault. And it’s not quite what it used to be. I don’t remember exactly what I was saying, but I do know what I would like to say is that so far, all that we have received from Ryan is last night on the show he claimed that that was evidence he was providing. Every time we asked him to show us evidence of the photos that he took while he was there, and everybody can watch the show and see it, okay. So I can’t be gaslighted into thinking he said something else or did something else. No, he didn’t mention AllTrails, he said he provided evidence. Over and over he said, “Well didn’t you see the pictures? That’s the evidence. Those are the pictures. I’m providing the evidence right now.” From AllTrails.com. And so now today what we have is a series of messages that I have shown within about a two-minute period how easy it is to fake that. And now he’s dragging his feet, refuses to produce a photo. And you guys are saying this is evidence. Come on. Come on. Come on.
 
Rich: I just want to go on record saying I didn’t think that was good evidence.
 
A: Thank you.
 
Rich: Well you need to have timestamps and the number and – you know, if there’s a picture. But he can’t do that apparently.
 
RG: Oli was getting all of these things in real time, as this was going on.
 
Oli: Yeah I’ll vouch for that, hundred percent.
 
Rich: But it doesn’t look like it, is what I’m, what she’s saying and I have to look at all sides of this too.
 
Oli: Rich, you know me.
 
A: So when did he give you the evidence?
 
Rich: I know, but to the audience, Oli – to people watching this, they don’t have a personal connection to you.
 
Oli: Yeah I have my word with Ryan right now.
 
Rich: I hear ya. I’m just saying what it looks like.
 
Oli: I get that, I don’t care about that. I’m sure the audience will trust me.
 
A: I trust you. I trust that you are telling us the truth right now. What I don’t know is who is lying about these photos. Because if you have seen the photos, Oli, I’d really like them to come out. Because I have only been in the same area with the couple that I was with that night, as I have said,  for about a 15-hour period, max. There’s no way that they have photos of me and anybody else that I know, there’s no way they know anyone else that I know. And I’m saying that all the evidence that’s being produced right now is either open source information that any of us could go out and scrounge up, or I’ve shown how easy it is to manipulate and produce fake information. So take it where you want. I think the evidence sucks.
 
Oli: I’d agree right now, all we’ve got – me and Ryan both said that today, we said the messages will mean nothing. I could bring up the check. The check would mean nothing. But it will come out. I don’t know if the aliens will come out the cave, the tunnel, though.
 
A: Oh Oli, why isn’t he giving you the photo?
 
Oli: With all due respect though, I asked you a question on Aliengirl’s show, and you coasted that question in different directions so that other people piped in with different ideas to what had gone in there, but my main question was: When you started this, did you tell Wayne what you were going to do?
 
A: No. No. No. When I first came out with my story, I had made very clear when I first came out with my story that I had not been in touch with them. That we had lost touch in 2018 and that that had been the last time that I had spoken to them. But that I was considering at that point reaching out to them.
 
RG: How do you lose touch with somebody that has an alien base in their backyard?
 
A: [laughs] You don’t understand the nature of experience. It’s in somebody else’s backyard. What am I supposed -?
 
RG: How do you lose touch? I mean I’d be keeping in contact with that person.
 
A: You mean harassing them? Because when – if I send multiple texts and they say, “Hey, he’s sick right now” – I like to leave people alone. I like to leave them alone. I don’t like to continue to push and push and push cuz I have personal boundaries that I respect for others.
 
RG: Are you saying that because you think that’s what I’ve done?
 
A: No, I’m telling you because you’re saying you would have done that. And I’m telling you that’s not how I operate.
 
RG: I think anybody on this panel would probably not lose touch with somebody that had an alien base in their backyard. How many races are in there? Like three or four different races. I’d do whatever it takes to keep in touch.
 
A: You can’t force people to [have an] ongoing relationship. The man has been battling cancer for more than 8 years, okay. I can’t help that that happens to be true. It’s true.
 
RG: If that’s true, how did he go dig a tunnel? If he’s battling cancer, how did he dig a tunnel?
 
A: I don’t know. Maybe one day we’ll be able to ask him, and he can tell us. I would like that.
 
RG: Can I ask you, or you just don’t know? How somebody that’s battling cancer can go dig a tunnel that you said is large –
 
A: I just told you.
 
RG: You don’t know.
 
A: I just told you that –
 
RG: I have one last thing that I’m gonna say, and then that’s it. And this is meant respectfully. The difference right now between you and I is on this show, tonight, you have openly admitted that you have misled at least one YouTube channel intentionally. You have also said that as a result of damage control, you change and alter fact. You’ve said that tonight. I have never, nor would I. That’s the difference between you and I.
 
A: What? No I didn’t. I didn’t say that I change and alter facts to mislead.
 
RG: You mislead people, that’s what that means. Mislead. You did that. You admitted to that tonight.
 
A: [Chat Q: Shouldn’t they both have Wayne’s phone number?] No, I already know Wayne’s phone number, Ludicrous. The actual - Ryan’s Wayne as well.
 
RG: We’re still talking about how you mislead people. I don’t know who this Ludicrous is.
 
A: I’m looking at the screen.
 
RG: I’m just saying that that’s a different view.
 
A: Is there a question or just a series of ridiculous statements. Just please tell me, is there a question?
 
RG: They’re your statements. You were the one who said that you mislead – at least one other YouTube channel.
 
A: I said that when Steven sent me information, and was planning to dox someone at that point, I believed, even if he wasn’t, that was what I believed, and I saw an opportunity to number one, have Steven –
 
RG: You used the word mislead. Right now you’re just playing word salad. You used the word mislead. You have misled at least one other channel –
 
Rich: Just let her answer!
 
A: I’m trying to answer the question right now.
 
Rich: Let her answer it first.
 
RG: Yeah, let’s hear it, yeah.
 
A: Okay, so I saw an opportunity to number one, if I asked Steven to not release the information publicly but to sit on it until after the expedition, that I would get him an interview, okay. Now he said – he made it clear that he was not going to release his information publicly but he was going to release that he thought I was a fraud. Or that Wayne was real but he wouldn’t release the information. And so in my mind, it made sense to diffuse the situation, to get people to stop trying to search the Mojave desert on private property, to stop trying to find my friend, and to potentially, I hoped, get people to leave this other man alone, if they thought that they had the right person. That maybe they would just wait. I didn’t know what else to do. My friend was becoming increasingly uncomfortable with the direction things were going, publicly, with the things people were saying. And I was afraid that he would get cold feet and no longer want to communicate with me. So I did it for the right reasons. You guys wanna call me a liar for that, go right ahead. Who among you haven’t, so, whatever. All of you have lied in your lives, and if any of you sit there and say that you haven’t, then we all know it. So I’m trying to explain to you what my motivation was, and you can take it or leave it.
 
Oli: I think we could go back and forth all night.
 
A: Not if you put the picture out.
 
Oli: I have every respect for what Ryan does. I’ve had many conversations with Ryan. I completely and totally believe Ryan has done the research, he has the guy. If it’s not the guy, then it’s somebody undercover, okay. It’s somebody trying to stop this alien disclosure.
 
Scott: I agree, Oli.
 
Oli: There is nothing to put out right now, and that’s my respect for Ryan that I’m not going to put anything out. Plus I don’t have that much to put out but I do have stuff that I can but I’m not supposed to put out yet. I won’t, out of respect for Ryan.
 
A: I respect that. What I don’t understand is why he won’t show you the picture. If you have all the evidence, if he has that.
 
Oli: He has the interview, Anjali. He has the interview.
 
A: That’s great! What I’m saying is that that man, whoever he interviewed, is not the right person. And all I am asking is for the photo.
 
Oli: And even if we’d have played it tonight –
 
A: I’m not asking for the video.
 
Oli: But if we’d have played it, what would you have said?
 
A: Well, I would’ve begun trying to deduce exactly how this came about so that I can decide what I would like to do personally, because somebody is claiming to have a personal relationship with me that they don’t, and they received money from a producer. Or a producer is paying someone to lie. Or something else. Ad I don’t know what’s going on, because I’ve never worked with Ryan. I’ve never talked with him outside of situations like this. And I’ll tell you the reason I did not communicate with him in the beginning, when he was seeking me out, was because I did not like what I knew he was doing – which was, he was saying he planned to take a drone out and fly it around other people’s property. And I thought that was unethical. And I wasn’t willing to even respond to his inquiries because of that. So you guys can try to drag me through the mud –
 
Oli: I’m not trying to drag anything.
 
RG: Where did this part come up, where I said I was gonna go fly a drone? I haven’t – the first time I ever spoke about this was yesterday.
 
A: No, it was very well known. I had all kinds of people.
 
RG: No.
 
A: Yes it was. I have text -
 
RG: I haven’t even had interest in your story or done anything except for the past, what’s it been Scott, like ten days?
 
NOTE: ANJALI PROVED THIS FALSE BY TWEETING ON NOV 11 THAT STEVEN CAMBIAN TOLD HER ON SEP 16 THAT RYAN WAS TRYING TO GET HOLD OF HER.
RYAN PROVED HIMSELF FALSE IN HIS STATEMENT THE FOLLOWING DAY, IN WHICH HE SAID HE SPOKE TO STEVEN A FEW TIMES AFTER THE SEP 13 INTERVIEW WITH HER. “Cambian assisted in trying to put Anjali and I in contact with the intent [of] producing a film about her...” STEVEN TOLD ME THESE CONVERSATIONS HAPPENED IN SEPTEMBER, ALMOST 2 MONTHS [NOT 10 DAYS] BEFORE THIS ALIEN ADDICT INTERVIEW.
 
Scott: Yeah something like that.
 
A: Really? Cuz I was given your phone number like back in August or maybe the first week of September by Steven Cambian because you were hounding him endlessly.
 
RG: That’s not – that is very false. Scott will attest to that.
 
A: If that’s true then, again this becomes a he said, she said. Steven Cambian was your contact and I refused to respond to your inquiries. So – hmm.
 
RG: I think you just got some bad information, is all. It’s been about ten days, right, Scott?
 
Scott: With your interest? Yeah. Since you’ve been looking into it.
 
Oli: … I do have an idea for you guys, if you’d be willing to do that. How about you meet up and go to the place?
 
A: No. My friend are not interested in having anything to do with this. Have you guys not been listening? They canceled – they don’t even want me on the property.
 
Oli: No I’m saying go to the fake Wayne. You believe Ryan has a fake Wayne. Why don’t you go with Ryan?
 
A: Because I’m not in California right now. This has already been – I don’t live in California right now.
 
Oli: Ryan, would that not get some sort of closure over this?
 
RG: Sure. She’s saying she’s not in California.
 
A: I’ll be happy to Zoom with you guys. Let’s do it. Get your guy. Even if you wanna just do it privately, and you don’t wanna broadcast, just send private links and you can send them to whomever you want as long as Oli, Scott, Osvaldo and Rich and Steven are there, at least they are able to watch it.
 
RG: What are we gonna do? Facetime with Wayne?
 
A: Yeah! We’re gonna do that.
 
RG: Why would I wanna do that when I already have the guy on camera. That’s silly. I already have him on camera. Why would I do that?
 
A: Well, I just told you. So that – no, it really isn’t. So that they can all see what happens when your Wayne and I have to talk to each other face to face. Let’s do it. Do it! Sounds like he’s really into you paying him hour by hour for his time, so perhaps you should save some money and get him on air.
 
RG: I don’t understand what she’s asking – does this make sense? Why would I wanna do that? I already have the footage. I’m in the process of negotiating a deal with a publishing house. Why would I do that?
 
A: Oh, no money motivation here.
 
RG: I’m not motivated by money. I’m motivated by truth.
 
Oli: I didn’t actually mean a Skype conversation. I meant –
 
RG: I don’t understand why you’re so fascinated with Wayne. It’s very bizarre. You’re saying that he’s fake, then why don’t you just say it’s fake and just – like that’s it. But you’re hyper focused on him. It’s very interesting.
 
A: I’m focused on him? Are you kidding me? My darling, it is you who have brought us all together here right now because you say you have video of my Wayne. I am not focusing on Wayne. I have asked everyone to please leave whatever Wayne you have, and anyone else, alone. Leave them alone. Don’t go trying –
 
RG: We’re just hearing the same thing again. This is like the fifth time she’s said this.
 
A: That’s right! That’s right, I’m very consistent.
 
RG: That’s true. You are. Very consistent.
 
Scott: You are consistent.
 
A: That’s because what I’m telling you is true.
 
RG: I don’t believe you, I’m sorry.
 
A: I know. I know.
 
RG: I do enjoy speaking to you though, and I think that on different terms we’d probably be friends, but I understand right now you’re viewing me as a threat which is very bizarre considering you also say I have the wrong guy. It just doesn’t compute in my head.
 
A: I don’t view you as a threat.
 
RG: You call me names, and all these things.
 
Oli: Why do you think Ryan would make this story up? We’re all on team Anjali right now. Why would Ryan make this story up?
 
Osvaldo: If she has something to hide, he could be a secret operative... trying to stop disclosure. Or he’s not lying.
 
Ryan: What would I get out of it?
 
Osvaldo: A big fat payment. Two billion dollars.
 
Ryan: I’m not making any money. Oli’s not paying me to be here. Oh I wish. If it was two billion –
 
Osvaldo: It’s a Steven Greer joke.
 
A: May I remind everyone that today he’s been talking about working with a major network for a deal, and he can provide me with a – what figure was that? [off-camera: “Nine-figure”] Nine-figure deal, that he can do that right now, okay. So clearly he’s got some stakes – I’m not finished please. And then the second thing is, he just talked about writing a book and having a deal with a publishing house. Are you guys not listening?
 
RG: I never said I was gonna write a book. I couldn’t write a book if I tried.
 
A: What did you just say about a deal with a publishing house?
 
RG: I don’t write books. I’ve never written a book in my life.
 
A: What did you just say about a publishing house? I’m confused.
 
RG: To put out the content so I have right now in negotiations with production companies that do work for Netflix and Amazon Prime. They publish content. I don’t write books.
 
Scott: He meant video.
 
A: Very good, thank you. Thank you. I misunderstood that and I appreciate you clearing that up. But that’s the skin in the game.
 
RG: Here’s the thing. I know that it seems like I keep interrupting you. I’m in the middle of nowhere in the my RV and I’m just using my cellphone with one bar, so I think I’m about five seconds behind maybe. I wanna be clear, I’m trying to speak over you or anybody else, there’s a delay in the call. Anyhow, your story as pitched is the biggest story in human history. [She nods.] The biggest. And you say you’ve been chosen to do this. That makes you, in the context of your story, the most important person on the planet right now. So as a result of those two qualifiers, a nine-figure deal for just proof of going to the base, which you say you’re gonna go, this is all fitting in perfectly. So I just say, when you’re ready –
 
A: I don’t have any interest in working with you or signing nine-figure deals.
 
RG: You don’t have to work with me. You don’t have to do any deal with me.
 
A: I am not interested –
 
RG: I’m saying you have the biggest story –
 
A: Excuse me.
 
RG: Say again? I just heard her screaming at me or something. I don’t know.  Say again? Remember I have like a five-second delay.
 
Scott: She’s saying something, so let her finish, Ryan.
 
RG: Yeah again, I’m just five seconds behind, so sorry about that.
 
A: What was it even that I was talking about? I can’t even remember anymore. This is convoluted and ridiculous.
 
Oli: Anjali, Ryan said that you’ve got the biggest story in human history, ever. You have the biggest thing here, ever. Okay? Why?
 
A: I don’t know. But I – I don’t know. They say that I volunteered to come here and to tell people this, and to be a catalyst for consciousness. To be a messenger, to like literally just be like a mouthpiece and have them tell humanity things. I didn’t know we were gonna even end up here. This is not – they say I signed up for it.
 
Osvaldo: They can’t do it themselves?
 
A: I don’t understand, I’m sorry.
 
Osvaldo: They can’t represent and speak for themselves?
 
A: They are speaking for themselves, they’re speaking to us.
 
Osvaldo: I mean directly.
 
A: They cannot speak for themselves? What do you mean? They are speaking
 
Scott: He means like not speaking through you.
 
Osvaldo: I’m pretty sure they’ll allow them to take a Twitter account or something or they could get a YouTube channel.
 
A: I don’t know.
 
Osvaldo: Then there’s no chance of misinterpretation or projection cuz they would be speaking directly themselves.
 
A: Do you think that we’re actually ready for that? Do you?
 
Osvaldo: No one is ever ready for anything, and that’s just an excuse to not do things.
 
A: Well it’s not my excuse.
 
Osvaldo: Doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. If they really wanted us to know, they would show up. Like they do.
 
A: They’re saying that there’s a consciousness movement, that this is a consciousness evolution that humanity is at the end of a cycle of experiential learning, while the earth, this planet is at the end of a cycle of its own, a cycle of consciousness development –
 
Osvaldo: Therefore isn’t it even more important that they show physically themselves, instead of relying on a human being?
 
A: Tell them that. I can’t help it. I hear you. I understand. I’m not saying that you have to believe that they are communicating with me, but I’m telling you that my experience is genuine, that I was there, it was a physical location. And that this is one of the biggest stories in human history, I realize that.
 
Osvaldo: It’s kinda like Steven Greer’s story, and a couple of other people’s stories. Are those also the biggest stories ever?
 
A: [misheard] I don’t know, that’s what you guys are saying, you’re saying this is the biggest story, now I characterize it and you wanna argue about it?
 
RG: No I said that. I did.
 
A: Well nobody else spoke but you guys had nodding heads. Maybe not every one of you, but it seemed to be like, yeah. Anyway.
 
RG: Why can’t they come out of the tunnel? Why can’t they just come to your house? I don’t understand why everything is predicated on the tunnel. If they’re interdimensional – why are they landlocked in a tunnel?
 
A: I don’t know.
 
Osvaldo: Is JFK Jr in the tunnel too? [laughs]
 
A: What? Oh, you think that’s funny?
 
Scott: No he’s referring –
 
A: I know exactly what he’s talking about and it’s not funny. I’m not associated with those people.
 
Scott: So Anjali, you have not been involved with ufology for a long time, it hasn’t been very long.
 
A: I haven’t been – my involvement with ufology began when I opened a Twitter account. So far before then, all I was doing was dragging through Twitter trying to better understand what I was experiencing. And seeing what other people were experiencing.
 
RG: Was somebody faking you were on Reddit? You had Reddit since 2018.
 
A: Why do you keep saying – oh, Reddit? No, I was on Reddit. I just said that. I just explained that.
 
RG: You said Twitter.
 
A: Oh excuse me, I meant to say Reddit, my mistake.
 
Scott: I don’t know how much on this subject you have read, like I said I’ve been doing it for over 30 years. So you do realize there’s been many many people that have come forward saying the same things that you’re saying.
 
A: You know, I have only I’d say a very peripheral understanding of that, because you can imagine, that after I came out with my experience on Reddit, and then I started my Twitter account, that it’s been a pretty nonstop effort that I have been involved in. And I haven’t taken the time to learn about that history, because - I understand that there is one and that you guys have experienced maybe – you have some PTSD even from believing people, having faith in people, waiting, and then being duped time and time again. I’m not even kidding. I think that could –
 
Scott: It’s definitely caused me to – like I said it’s like a trigger, and if I see someone come in and they’ve got this outrageous story, I’m really an evidence person so I want to look for evidence, data, things like that. So if it’s just a story, for me it’s really, I dunno, it triggers something in me. It’s going through it a million times.
 
A: Right, right, and feeling frustrated because then when you start getting into people like myself, and I believe there’s a John Ramirez, and others coming forward who are sharing our experiences, it becomes difficult to believe that any of it could be true. I have a – my worldview was pretty shattered in 2018, with this experience in the base. It turned everything upside-down. And I can see how, for other experiencers – I’m sure it has affected them as deeply as it affects me. I just happen to be a person who in the past did something that was very evidentiary based. For every suggestion or conclusion that I would reach, I had to be able to get it through a team of other analysts as we would all essentially cross-examine each other after we would finish our analysis to make sure we were solid, we had considered everything, that our evidence was there. So this is really difficult for me. And it makes the expedition team something that keeps – like, really, coming full force into my life. This notion of it, this almost compulsion to try to go out and be able to gather this evidence because I have been so evidence-driven and logic driven.
 
NOTE: TWO DAYS EARLIER SHE HAD TOLD “WAYNE & TRISHA”: “I am going to formally end this physical expedition team so you don't have to suffer… What happens now, I'm unsure.”
 
A: [cont’d] I could have never done the kind of work that I did if I wasn’t that kind of person who knew how to do this. So now having the evidence is very difficult and it’s part of probably what drives me forward and can make me – I became imbalanced because I was not respecting the journey that Wayne is on to the degree that I should have, at a time that’s really difficult for him because of his health and how difficult just seeing all of this has been. And fear of being revealed and drug through the dirt and have his property stormed and his privacy lost. So that’s where we are. And that’s it, that’s it. I don’t want your money, I don’t have a YouTube channel that I put up and try to get anything from. I spend my time moving around to other people and just facing the skeptics and the questions and doing my best. That’s what I do.
 
RG: I’m sorry, did you say you don’t have a YouTube channel?
 
A: I don’t have a YouTube channel where I have a show. I don’t have a show. I’m not raising money or doing anything like that. Everybody understands that there’s a YouTube channel where you can find a few videos. None of them are monetized of course, because I don’t want your money.
 
Oli: Rich from GUFON has said for a long time, never gonna happen, this will happen, and he did predict pretty much what’s happened. You’ve said it’s us that made that happen.
 
A: I said there are many factors in it, and that one is his health and that he has been very stressed out by the way that other people have been doxed publicly, and how he is afraid of what will happen if anybody finds out who he is. It’s ridiculous the way that this has played out, and I’m sorry for my part in it. I’m sorry that I didn’t check my story better.
 
Oli: Can I just say you seem like an extremely intelligent woman.
 
A: Thank you.
 
Oli: You seem extremely intelligent, like I reckon you’ve got a really high IQ.
 
A: I reckon that you’re correct but I don’t understand –
 
Oli: So somebody who’s extremely intelligent that goes to an alien base, meets aliens, then they make a great friend called Wayne… I said all along, I said to Ryan, I said you would have no reason, if you were lying, to actually tell us the real person’s name or even a real location, if it was just a story. But here’s my issue –
 
A: That’s doesn’t make sense.
 
Oli: It doesn’t make sense, okay. So if it’s just a story, okay, like I said I think you’re selling a story, I think it’s gonna be maybe a tester for a book so you can go to a publisher and say look at the traction that this has done –
 
A: No, I’m sorry [inaudible]
 
Oli: What I’m asking you is, you are intelligent, extremely, but if this is real, why did you go out to the public and release everything after one visit?
 
A: Why didn’t I go right then?
 
Oli: No after one visit – so you say you didn’t ask Wayne, you just decided you were going to do this, you had so much respect for the guy, you’re a very intelligent lady, and you could’ve done so much more with this, but instead after one visit you came out with this story, after one visit.
 
A: That’s right.
 
Oli: Why after one visit? Because you could’ve gone so many more times.
 
A: No, I have made that very clear that that is not the case, that I did not even have contact with them. How could I? What did you want me to do? You want me to trespass on this man’s property? I’m sorry –
 
Oli: I thought you were friends though. Did you do something wrong that you couldn’t go back again?
 
A: No. No. That is not -
 
Oli: So why after one visit –
 
A: Yes, after one visit. Because number one, it confirmed all of my conscious contact that I had been having, leading up the three weeks before then, okay. And number two, he gave me his information, I knew that he was a real person, I was standing there in front of them and everything I was experiencing was a tangible physical experience. Now when I first came out sharing my experience, I had no intention of sharing my name. I was terrified. I started calling ex-co-workers and peers and friends to let them know, because I was afraid that somebody would dox me and that they would hear about it through something that was really terrible. So I thought, I really need to let them know that this entire experience happened to me. So I called multiple co-workers, and let me tell you that it was extremely difficult to do. But I felt so strongly about the tangibility, the physical tangibility of my experience that I was certain that the base is there. And my ongoing communication with them has verified that the base is there. So why did I come out and tell my story before I talked to Wayne? Because when I told my experience like I said, I didn’t see any of this coming, and so I don’t need anyone’s permission to share my story. I was extremely naïve in the way that some people chose to respond. I didn’t know the lay of the land of this community. I was literally was shoved, stumbled, however you wanna put it, into it in mid-March. I’m very far behind in the history of the community. If I had known more about the history of the community, I may have asked the beings if we could do it a different way. I didn’t. I made a lot of mistakes and I do feel that it’s naivety. I’m not saying – that’s not to be confused with the idea of innocence. I’m not trying to say “Oh, I’m such an innocent little person that I didn’t know.” I’m saying I was genuinely naïve about the rabidity level at this year of ufotwitter’s need for evidence. I had no idea what I was getting into. I had no idea what was going on here.
 
Scott: No you didn’t.
 
A: That was pretty clear, right?
 
Scott: You said this experience you had took place in 2018. So in 2016 you posted a picture on Instagram of a tunnel carved out of rock with a bright light at the end of the tunnel. What was the significance two years before the event even happened?
 
A: I was in San Francisco with a very good friend of mine and we were at the coast and I took probably about 500 pictures on that trip, and that one I thought was very beautiful and I remember taking – I know exactly what pic you’re talking about. But it’s just on the coast in San Francisco. We can probably finds pics of it, not my pic, but pics of it out there that other people have taken. It was just a very beautiful view.
 
Oli: Do you understand why people don’t believe the story?
 
A: Yes, of course.
 
Oli: Do you understand why we’re doing this?
 
A: Well I’m not sure what exactly it is that we are doing. Because I thought we were coming on here to get evidence.
 
Oli: You came on here, you didn’t have to, I didn’t even invite you… So many people in this field are frustrated with the bullshit.
 
A: That’s not my fault, and I’m not the cause for this 70 years of bullshit that you guys want to pin on me. So back off on that, it’s not my fault.
 
Oli: Are you gonna deliver anything?
 
A: I don’t know. I don’t know. I’m going to continue communicating. I’m not sure exactly what comes next as far as how –
 
Oli: Do they only have one base? You could ask them if they have another base.
 
A: I do not know why they want this location. I have no idea.
 
Oli: Have you asked them if they have another base?
 
A: I have – there are many bases that can be found around our world.
 
Oli: But they want you to take humans to this specific base. They’ve asked you to do that – or have you just decided to do that?
 
A: Oh no, they asked me to do that and so going back to your timeline earlier, when I came out with my story I wasn’t planning on doing any of this, coming forward, not planning on the press conference. After I said I thought I might try to reconnect with them, I did indeed try to reconnect with them. And it was a slow process and the expedition team was announced after several weeks of me not wanting to do it, and feeling a little sick to my stomach thinking about it. Just knowing that I didn’t have any idea how this was going to turn out because I had not even reconnected with them. So I understood at that time that I was really putting my neck on the line by saying I would like to do this, and that I’m going to go have the press conference. And so they kept telling me that it was going to be fine, it was going to be fine, that they would reconnect. And lo and behold, they did, and we reconnected before the press conference. Now if we had not reconnected before the press conference, I would have shared my experience, I would have shared my intention to reconnect, and my intention to gather a team to discuss the experience and potentially –
 
Oli: This we have heard.
 
A: I’m giving you the timeline.
 
Oli: I know, I keep getting the timeline. What I think you should do before I leave the show is contact the aliens and just say, Can we use a different base cuz Wayne’s not on board?
 
A: They’re saying that everything is fine.
 
Oli: They say that’s fine?
 
A: No, they’re saying that everything is fine. And they’re just telling me to be still, and be quiet. Just be still and be quiet, that everything is fine. So, something else is moving that I don’t know about, and maybe we’ll see what it is. But I think we all need to get over – at least I do, I need to get over to GUFON because apparently he has Orion Adventures’ Wayne on tonight and so I need to be present there… I have conviction and I stand by exactly what’s happening. I have offered even to be polygraphed. I’m ready to meet this Wayne tonight and look him in the eyes and try to figure out what’s happening. So I’m just here trying to keep it clean as we move forward. Because I don’t want these waters to be any muddier than they have to be. I think we can get some clarity here and we might have to be patient for a little while, I don’t know, but I do know that it’s important to address what’s happening right now with this developing situation with this other Wayne who owns some real estate.
 
[she leaves]
 
Oli: … I just want to say something to anybody that’s watching this that may think Ryan doesn’t have anything – he does. He’s just got a lot of integrity for his clients, or potential clients, and also he has a job to do. How can I word this right? It’s nothing personal.
 
RG: If I had contacted you and said, hey I’m gonna do this, I’m gonna show all this evidence, people should have a pitchfork in my front yard if that’s what happened. But that’s not what happened, as you know. You contacted me and I said I’ll do the very best I can. That’s where we are. Again, I wasn’t coming out and making a claim or anything, contacting a show host or something.
 
Oli: Ryan, honestly, keep doing the work, mate. Don’t let people put you off doing this work because what you do, what you’ve done with the Travis Walton case, what you’ve done with this case so far – I know what you’ve done. Scott knows what you’ve done. I’m sure Steven knows what you’ve done. At some point we may have a different interview.
 
RG: Let’s see what happens! I mean we did discuss that maybe it’s the wrong Wayne. Like I said, it would just be a huge coincidence, again given all the qualifiers of who the guy is.
 
Oli: That’s a conspiracy in itself if it’s the wrong Wayne.
 
RG: It sure is, yeah. It sure is. I think you and I talked about this, Scott and I talked about it – I think as recently as yesterday, Scott, are we sure this is the right Wayne? Maybe not. Maybe not. And that’s okay.
 
Scott: And if it’s not, then the guy who’s faking that he is Wayne went online and looked at this whole case and gathered all this info – I mean that’s the only way.
 
RG: Yeah. I would agree. A lot of things would have to fall into place. We’ll see. If it’s the wrong guy, it’s the wrong guy.
 
Oli: I would sit back till December 15th, just sit back now. Let the chips fall where they may.
 
RG: Yeah, I think so. Yeah.
 
Oli: … Before you do go, Ryan, I just want to state for the record here, there’s been three nights talking to Ryan, and Ryan has developed a passion for the subject because he does think there’s something there, and he doesn’t want to see this subject getting shit on, but he also wants to make money off it. Let’s not beat about the bush here. Otherwise he would release what he has right now. I respect that.

Jan 21, 2022 What in the World Happened to Anjali Schultz? Whitley Strieber

[This was apparently a 90-minute interview, but only the first hour is free. Anjali talks about her background, childhood, and the experience of meeting Wayne and walking through his tunnel. Whitley starts by saying after seeing Anjali’s press conference he thought the expedition “probably isn’t going to happen”, that he understands why she was “asked to do that in such way she didn’t feel any ability to refuse”, and that he has a “very different perspective on all this” than non-experiencers.]
 
W: I have been trying for 30 years to make this thing work out in some way that it becomes physical and it didn’t, and it never has, not really. I’m close… I wanna find out more about what motivated Anjali, what her expectations for the future are, what she wants to do.
A: First I just want to tell you what a pleasure it is to be here today and how grateful I am for your time and your perspective on this experience that’s still ongoing in my life. If you would’ve told teenage me that we would be having this conversation now I wouldn’t have believed it. I read your book when I was very young and it had quite a familiarity to me that I couldn’t quite put my finger on at the time. But I think that today I’m getting closer to that as well. But thank you, thank you for having me.
 
W: You’re a controversial a figure as shows up right now. [She balks.] Anjali and I had a conversation on Zoom about 6 weeks ago, a little longer [early December], and during that conversation we exchanged some material about good and evil, right and wrong, and Anjali asked me a question which I regard as the most important question that can be asked about those subjects and I was very surprised to hear that because mostly you never hear it except from the visitors. And we’re gonna get into that later. I’m teasing you now, I know that, and I’m doing it on purpose because I want you to stay with us. A lot of people have already got opinions about Anjali Schultz. I do not have an opinion at all. I am very interested though. Where I would like to start is with your life in the intelligence community, which is a very distinguished career in that community, and then circle back to your experiential life and why you read Communion. But let’s first start about what you did specifically. You were in the Air Force and then you had to leave the Air Force for health reasons, and then you end up in the intelligence community. How did that all happen?
A: I’m not sure exactly how I ended up in the intelligence community except to say that I felt a call to service, and at the time I was finishing my second undergraduate degree and I was trying to determine my way forward, and I had two children and I was single at the time, I’d been divorced. So I was trying to plan for all of our futures, the three of us. One of the things I was considering at the time was Luther Seminary. I delved deeply into that consideration. I also took the Foreign Service exam and was interviewed in Washington DC and in Fort Lauderdale, couple of times, and interviewed with the FBI, and interviewed for graduate assistantship[?] to go to graduate school. All of these things were Plan A, B, C, D. How do I go forward.
Well, time was running out, summers are short, and I ended up at grad school and right after I began the semester I got a call on my cell phone from DIA [Defense Intelligence Agency]. They offered me a position as an intelligence officer. There was no interview about what kind of work I wanted to do or what I could bring to the table. This was an offer that was being made to me directly, I just needed to pass my very extensive background security check. So that began, and the next thing I knew I spent a few semesters at grad school and then moved out to Washington DC and ended up working in the Human Factors Analysis Center. That’s where we were looking at State and non-State leaders and how the United States could appropriately through more diplomatic channels influence decision making so that we could have peaceful resolutions that would of course be in the best interests of the United States. So it was essentially personality profiling. I was successful at that, I had an amazing mentor who actually began a department – and if you ever see this, I miss you and you were amazing, thank you for everything you taught me.
So from there I worked on a couple of other projects that were also successful and ended up in a short period of time working at the Pentagon. Not sure exactly where you want me to go from there, but it was quite an experience and it was a quick rise. I hadn’t been with the agency very long when I was recruited to the Pentagon position. At the time it was called the Executive Support Office. And it was just a very quick rise and I was the youngest woman that was in the Division. One of only a few, and most of them had been in the intelligence community, they were seniors and they had been there for many years and they were serving there, so it was quite something for me. I felt very honored to be among such distinguished and accomplished women who were working behind the scenes for diplomacy.
 
W: It’s a very interesting area of the Defense Intelligence Agency because of the depth you go into analyzing the psychological makeup of foreign leaders - various, not just presidents and premiers but deep down, deeper into the governments to try to understand who these people are so when our forward-facing elements such as everyone from the president to senators and so forth, they can receive briefings before they speak to these people. They’re useful. So it’s a terribly important job.
A: It is, and it arose from the dust of 9/11 and going into Afghanistan and Iraq, and a need for a better understanding of the other leaders and non-State actors, such as Taliban leaders, which we did not consider State actors at that time, they had been overthrown. It’s definitely an essential part of I think what the Defense Department does with respect to keeping peace in the world. And that’s not very well known. People tend to think of the Pentagon as a war machine. Everything that I worked with, that I had touchpoints with, were actually efforts for peace and diplomacy, for other means of resolution and support of nations that had fallen or that needed uplifting after their own internal kinds of devastation. So I’m very grateful for that experience and it was a natural fit for me. But like I said, the founder of that Division who created that methodology, she’s just absolutely brilliant and I’m very grateful to have worked with her.
 
W: You leave this Service, I believe for reasons of illness again, is that correct?
A: I left – no, when I was in the Air Force I actually worked in orthopedic surgery, so that was a completely different field. I left after my – I had a second pregnancy that was considered high risk and I was going to need to be on bed rest and I already had a child who was at the time, he was just a little over a year old when I found out I was pregnant again, and so my body hadn’t healed enough from the first pregnancy. And we didn’t know at the time that I had a connective tissue disorder. And so I was having a very difficult time with my second pregnancy, and so I sought and was given an honorable discharge due to high-risk pregnancy.
 
W: That certainly makes sense. You can’t successfully pursue and Air Force career with a situation like that.
A: That’s right.
 
W: Now you’ve had an interest in politics. I believe you ran for – is it Secretary of State of South Dakota at one point?
A: I did. I did. I have to tell you, I felt more like a sacrificial lamb than I did a politician. It was – again, I always feel, I’ve always felt a need to serve and most of everything I’ve done in my life has been some sort of service to others. And if you think about it, that’s how most of us live our lives on a daily basis. If we can step outside of our own perspective of what we’re doing and see if from the greater connection to all, we tend to serve each other on a daily basis. So when I was asked if I would consider running for a statewide seat, of course I was hesitant, I knew that there wasn’t a chance in god’s green earth that that was gonna happen, that I could be successful here [in SD]. And so I had an ethical dilemma. The dilemma was that once I said yes, that I would accept this and pursue a nomination and go through the whole process of losing, they wanted me to fundraise and ask people to donate to me, to tell them about how we're gonna win and how they were gonna make a difference with this donation. And it didn’t seem right to me, Whitley. They wanted me to play a game that was immoral. And so I quickly fell out of favor with--
 
W: If you don’t fundraise in politics, you’re gonna fall out of favor.
A: Yes, and with the leaders of the party. They were quite upset with me. I was not cooperative in the way they wanted. So, what I did instead was I just went town to town as much as I could and I just talked to people. I didn’t ask for donations. If they offered them, I would accept them. All in all, I only raised $11,000, just enough to be able to do what I needed to be able to do without building some kind of big coffer like we were winning, y’know? I spent every single dime of it on advertising and travel, and had the most per capita, dollar for dollar, the most successful election that they’d seen of a newcomer. They couldn’t believe it. I lost, I lost miserably, something like 83,000 to I think she got ahead like 130,000. But my opponent also spent over $150,000 and I spent eleven.
 
W: Well you could say this – 83,000 South Dakotans couldn’t be wrong, right? [they laugh] I remember when Barry Goldwater ran against Lyndon Johnson, they were saying 50 million Americans couldn’t be wrong which implied that 150 million could be.
A: That’s right.
 
W: I had a long period of time in my life in politics and I finally decided – my family was very very involved in Texas politics – I decided it’s just not for me and I moved to New York and I never looked back. I became a writer. Now you have wanted to become a writer too, and you have a book.
A: I do.
 
W: And you’ve struggled with this, there have been agent rejections, the usual miseries of trying to become a writer. How do you feel about that now?
A: [19:00] I guess I don’t have a feeling associated with it. I would say that I was working full time, going through a divorce as this novel was coming out, this first novel, my husband and I had separated. And I was splitting time with my son and I was also ill, y’know. And now looking back on my life I see all the subtleties of chronic illness that I wasn’t aware of then. I kept having these – what I thought were these acute sudden illnesses that we couldn’t figure out, like rhabdomyolysis. Nobody has acute onset idiopathic rhabdomyolysis – basically that means it came out of nowhere and we don’t know how it happened - suddenly her tissue or her muscles are like she just ran a marathon or received a crush injury.
 
W: ...I forgot to take [a break] at 15 minutes, I was interested in this life story that we’re listening to. When we get back we’ll gradually move a little deeper into a cave in the Mojave desert and how we got there. [His own ad for a conference: The Motives & Aims of Our Visitors] Anjali, where can people go to find you on the internet?
A: The best place to find me would be on Twitter @AnjaliOnGaia and no, I’m not associated with the TV network in any sort of way. It’s just the name I chose for where we are. @AnjaliOnGaia on Twitter. And we’re also in the process of completing our website reboot, TranscensionProject.com. It is not live yet, but we hope it will be soon.
 
W: Okay so I guess the best place to go is to your Twitter feed, and Anjali is very active on Twitter so if you do become a follower you’ll see a lot from her for sure. Now let’s go back to early life. You mentioned at the outset that you read my book Communion when you were a young girl, unfortunately probably younger than I would like to think. [They laugh.] But in any case, you read my book then. There would’ve been a reason that you picked that book up. Can you tell us what that reason was, why did you pick up Communion?
A: One of my earliest memories is of a craft that was over our home one night. For years I didn’t know if I was 3 or 4 years old, but I always remembered being on our couch looking out the window at my mother and everyone else in the neighborhood, like standing out in their yards in our driveway at one point, like the neighbors had walked over and were all standing in our driveway looking at this amazing craft that was hovering above our home. For years my mother and I talked about it and that’s all either one of us remembered. There were other people who lived in the house, who also remembered, that my mother was still in contact with. And so it was this fascinating event--
 
W: What exactly did the craft look like?
A: Oh, sure, I’m so sorry. Okay, so for years all I could remember was that it was cylindrical, or excuse me circular, and it had various colored lights that would rotate around it, around the bottom edge. And there was a light that was coming out from beneath it, and I remember this specifically because it was shining down – everything that I could see when I was looking out the window, it looked like daylight except around the edges you could tell, and I knew it was night because in the hallway that I had run down to jump up on the couch and look out the window it was dark, and it was night. So it was metallic, it was large, it was larger than our house and it hovered there for some time that none of us could calculate. My mother and I talked about this for years, we always remembered it. And I always had a sense that there was just something intangible, some immaterial intangible experience that was happening around us. I instinctually felt it and I had other things that validated that. Other experiences.
 
W: So you felt this sense of there being something more to the experience, is that correct?
A: Oh absolutely. When I was 11 years old I was sitting at the breakfast table that just happened to be beside a little window on our piece of property out in the middle of the woods in Florida. And I looked out the window and there was an owl that was sitting on the tree staring at me. I looked at the owl, and as I looked at it I realized that it wasn't an owl and I was transfixed.
 
W: They often aren’t owls. Very true.
A: And it slowly became something else, like showing itself to me, and the next thing you know it’s a couple of hours later and I’m sitting at the table with my bowl of cereal in front of me, undisturbed, everything is in order. It’s not like I had some kind of odd seizure. I was just sitting at the table. And I called my mom and had to tell her I missed the bus that day and explain to her that I didn’t understand, that I had seen an owl and that I thought maybe I fell asleep at the table. But the cereal bowl was undisturbed.
 
W: How much of a sense of missing time do you have? Do you notice many missing time experiences? Because a lot of us have a lot of them. I have lots. I had one the day before yesterday where suddenly 25 or 30 minutes are just gone and there’s no medical explanation for this. I’ve gone into it deeply with doctors, believe you me. There’s no explanation for it. Does it happen to you very often, do you think, or do you notice?
A: I have to tell you that as far as time goes, that I really struggle, I really struggle with it in general. This hasn’t always been the case. When I look back on my life at missing time, they tended to happen around really incredible events, like me seeing the owl and being transfixed. One morning I was out very early in the morning. Nobody else was up. I was on a dirt road on my bike, and a very large wolf just trotted out of the woods and stood in the middle of the road in front of me at a curve that would’ve been leading back to where I needed to go home. And it just stood there and stared at me. Again, I remember being transfixed and having this feeling like “That can’t be a wolf, this isn’t a wolf. But everything’s fine, everything’s fine,” y’know. And then suddenly I’ve got – it’s later in the morning and I’m on my bike – cuz I was standing there, and I jump back on my bike and I rode home and told my mom that I saw a wolf. That kind of thing – I have missing time around odd sightings of things.
 
W: So you’re somehow tangled up in this experience from an early age apparently, in the close encounter experience. It’s not really a huge part of your life, but it’s enough to where you maintain a sort of low-level interest. I would assume that in being vetted for your job in the DIA that you didn’t mention any of this stuff. Or did you?
A: I don’t think that it came up. I don’t think it was – those kinds of questions, I don’t think it would’ve come up.
 
W: That’s right, they’re not going to be asking you questions like that, that’s true. Perhaps they should in the future, I don’t know.
A: Yes.
 
W: So here you are, and let’s now move on to a little closer to the present, and I get a call from my friend Alan Steinfeld saying that you have contacted him, or he’s contacted you, I don’t know quite how it worked, you can tell us. And you’re going to be doing this press conference. And I immediately thought to myself: "That will not work out,” and I know why, and we’ll get into the why of it in a little while. But tell us – let’s go back to the event or prior to the event that happened that inspired you to do that. What was your life like in those months before that happened?
A: I was in complete rehabilitation at that time. In 2017 I’d had a health crisis that landed me in the hospital for a couple of months after being in the ICU. They thought that I had some very odd type or variant of Guillain-Barré Syndrome that they hadn’t seen. They couldn’t pin it down in the laboratory. I presented as a spinal cord injury, y'know. There were just all kinds of questions around what's happening in this body that's going on. That began, that illness, the critical part of it began in January of 2017. And so 2017 just literally became a convalescence year for me. I had many ups and downs physically and emotionally. It was a difficult year. I was facing my own identity crisis and wondering what is it, exactly, what gifts do I have that I can offer with a broken body, y’know? Like how do I deal with a body that is falling apart around me, was kinda how it felt. And so that’s what 2017 was like.
And in some of my better months, near the end of the year, I had begun going out socially a little bit, and so by the time that January 2018 came around I was venturing out of the house now and then to spend time and make friends in an area that I didn’t know anyone. I was in southern California where I had been working with the Marine Corps doing some intelligence at one of their school houses, teaching intelligence. My health had interfered with that. Here I was now, sort of just found myself in the desert, kind of a ship without a sail, and learning to be okay with that. That was really what ’17 was all about, learning to be okay with the new body and the new lifestyle and finding those things about myself that I loved, that I felt I could share in some way. And trying to just be really super-present in my healing and in my own kindness to myself in the process, cuz I was always very hard on myself.
 
W: [asks for subscribers / break for another of his own ads] [36:00] We’re talking to Anjali Schultz. Anjali, can you remind us of your Twitter feed and your upcoming website.
A: Yes. You can find me on Twitter @AnjaliOnGaia, and the upcoming website is TranscensionProject.com and we hope to have that live soon. Thank you.
 
W: I apologize for having called you An-JAH-li for so many months. Every time we’ve talked, I’ve always called you that. I recall Alan Steinfeld say you pronounce your name very strangely and I thought, hmm, I wonder what’s wrong but now I know. So please accept my apologies.
A: It’s okay.
 
W: So we have now – you have gotten through a difficult year, 2017, and you find yourself out in the desert. What do you mean by that, precisely?
A: Well, I mean it in just about every way that a person can mean it. I was in a place in my life of complete vast openness to anything and everything that could come to me. I was not presumptive, I just wanted to experience. And I felt like if you think about life in the desert, I don’t know how many people who are listening have ever lived in the desert, but it’s one of the most remarkable landscapes. It’ll surprise you in its depth of life and richness, and the tenacity of the creatures that live there to survive and how perfect they are for their environment. It’s absolutely remarkable. I started feeling like it was a perfect environment for me. I fit in. As part of my spiritual and my identity search, as far as like an identity role, like what do I do in this world now? – I was just open and kind of baking in the sun.
 
W: The Mojave is a very magical place and of course the trinity site is in the Mojave Desert, there have been a lot of famous sightings and so forth in that desert. And also not in that desert but in another desert where the Roswell incident took place. So deserts are strange places, and deserts are places that are in some ways haunted by a presence that’s different from us. That presence turned out to haunt you in the desert. You were a little girl, you saw something that marked you. What exactly happened? I’ve listened to the hypnosis you did with Barbara Lamb and my conclusion is the same as with any hypnosis that I’ve ever done or listened to or participated in, in any way: we don’t know what it’s about.
A: [attempts to interrupt] Well--
 
W: We don’t know. Because you remember going aboard the craft and so forth but we don’t know what happened. But tell us what you do remember anyway.
A: Now Barbara and I were having a conversation about it. There’s a little bit of a misunderstanding from everyone that I only remembered the event after hypnosis or during hypnosis. And that is not correct. She and I had a very in-depth conversation about what I remembered, so it was important to me that I explore that while I was under, okay. And so there were many things that I was exploring while I was under hypnosis that were not being verbally shared with everyone because it wasn’t necessary. I ended up having contact with the beings in real time, like they were – it wasn’t [that] I was back inside the tunnel, it was – they were talking, they were there then. I was reliving it, and when they were sharing what I was sharing, that was happening in the real time. It was remarkable to me. But what I do remember now, and had remembered through meditation prior to Barbara, which only reaffirmed what I had been remembering, is that I was on board the craft and there were lots of other small beings, humanoid beings that were very much like children. I mean I understood them to be children. There were also adults.
 
W: This is when you were a child.
A: When I was a child, yes. It turns out it was in 1976. And boy, there probably were 20, maybe 20, 30 of these small children who were at various heights but all around my size. They were touching me and feeling me, and pulling on my clothes and giggling, and we were all giggling together and they were beautiful, but none of them had hair. Their skin wasn’t – they would not have passed for human. What I had discovered was that these were actually brothers and sisters of mine, that they had been using my mother’s eggs and genetically modifying, and I was a successful modification. I could pass for human and all these others were the ones that didn’t.
 
W: How interesting. Of course for someone outside of our experience that seems like a completely fanciful story.
A: It does.
 
W: But not to someone who’s inside the experience because I’ve heard that story in various versions dozens of times, and most of them from the 1970s and early ’80s when this type of event was really very common among us. So I’m not so willing to just dismiss it. And I also know Barbara Lamb quite well and I know her skill and her level of professionalism. She knows what she’s doing.
A: She does.
 
W: But all of that said, I’m not going to go so far as to say this happened in the real world that we understand. It happened alright, but whether or not it happened in a way that we finally absolutely understand is an entirely other, and in my opinion unanswered, question. And I’m sure that you or any other close encounter witness would agree with that.
A: That’s right. There’s something that’s incredibly – do I believe that the craft was physically there? Absolutely. I do.
 
W: Well because you had other witnesses.
A: That’s right. And there were other people who also realized that they have no idea where I was during that time. I was unaccounted for. And that’s important. And so I believe that I was taken aboard this craft. I don’t understand – inside, it isn’t, it’s almost, I don’t even have words. I’m probably going to sound like a complete fool for people who know what this actually means, because I’m maybe using words I don’t understand, but it’s like I was inside of another place, like another field of energy, another - a dimension?
 
W: Listen, you need say no more. A lot of us, like me, are nodding our heads right now. We’ve been there and done that, it’s not an uncommon experience. The sense of perceptual dislocation is very profound.
A: That’s right. So here’s this physical craft, everybody can see. I go in it, I have no idea where I actually am.
 
W: Exactly. Exactly. Well, that’s very common and a very accurate way of describing the experience of being taken aboard a craft because you suddenly - you might be aboard a craft but this is a very complex experience. You could be in a different universe and on a different planet in a different time. We just don’t know.
A: Yes.
 
W: But one thing that is very clear, once we’re there we don’t know what the devil’s going on and we’re not necessarily gonna be able to find out, either. But we do know this, there’s a baseline. Other people saw this there. You were gone, you came back, your cereal was presumably fairly damp by then and you couldn’t explain it. [He has confused the childhood abduction with seeing the owl.] Then later, many years later, Barbara comes along and she’s able to draw what memory you do possess out of you.
A: That’s right.
 
W: And so that’s where we are. Now what do we know, as close encounter witnesses, about Anjali at this point? We know that she’s involved. More importantly we know that they take an interest. And why do we know that? Because of the figure that looked like an owl and slowly turned into something else. That is a sign of presence, of awareness that many of us have experienced. Cuz once you see that, then you’re on their list, no question about it.
A: That’s right.
 
W: But whose list? And what does that mean? Those are things we can’t answer. We don’t know what they mean. We’re going to take another break and when we come back we’re finally headed for that cave and beyond and believe me folks, there is a beyond you do not expect. [break] [49:00] We’re back with Anjali Schultz, I’m finally pronouncing her name correctly after all these months. And we have been talking about her connection to the experience, to our experience, which is very much like the connections of many other people. Most of us have connections very similar to hers. I could read you probably 10 or 15 letters that discuss experiences very like the ones that Anjali has told us about. Now, at some point you meet a man called Wayne. How did that happen?
A: I was having coffee, just sitting with a friend in a coffee shop in the morning on a Sunday.
 
W: Where was this?
A: In southern California.
 
W: But not in the Mojave? Or in the Mojave?
A: I would rather not--
 
W: If you don’t want to say, that’s fine.
A: I would rather not say because, y’know, I have learned something about trusting the public with information right now.
 
W: You sure have. I know that people have been – as always, many of them, UFO researchers, are showing their - putting their best foot forward and that’s not necessarily a very good foot.
A: You know where the coffee shop is, but I have never disclosed that to anyone else.
 
W: Oh okay, we won’t go there then.
A: That’s right.
 
W: So you’re having coffee with a friend.
A: That’s right. So I’m having coffee with a friend who’s about to head home, and I’m gonna head home, and a couple walks into the coffee shop. We make eye contact because I’m facing the door, and they have bright and open smiles on their faces. They’re just very happy and lovely looking people. They came over and sat with my friend and I in this communal sitting area that we were sitting in, and just began a conversation. Just saying hi and all the subtle niceties. As the conversation went on, we discussed his cancer and my illness. He told me then that I had – it’s really interesting Whitley, thinking about this now. I don’t think that I’ve ever really stopped and thought about it quite from this perspective but I’m wondering if the beings were speaking to me that day because he was talking to me about the burden of negative energy in my body from the places that I had worked and the energies that I had come in contact with and that had become a physical body burden on me. That it was going to continue to make me ill, that I had to release this body burden.
And I thought that was very enlightening for someone, y’know. [pause] Wow, I just never thought about this. It’s kind of remarkable, y’know, I’m having an epiphany that perhaps they were already speaking to me through him. So anyway, we talked about illness and choosing our path in life, and trying to be positive forces in the world for good. To be uplifting. And he pivoted a hundred percent, just pivoted and asked what I thought about aliens.
 
W:That’s an interesting thing that he would do that because - do you have any more insight into his background than you did when we last spoke?
A: Um [sigh] y’know, not that I will talk about. I feel like any time that I say something it sparks a fervor in people to try and [locate?] and so I’m just so hesitant. But I will tell you this, that he is on his own journey, of course, like all of us are, and we have touchpoints. His and my journey are not the same necessarily. But I don’t think he realizes how much we are intertwined, he and I. And unfortunately, because of how sour things went publicly in trying to locate him, our relationship has become tenuous and he’s been very stressed. And so I very much respect his need for space and quiet and healing. I want nothing but love for him and compassion from everyone for this man and his wife. And no, I don’t think that physical disclosure is more important than his health. If it was, it would’ve happened despite it. And that’s the nature of this – is that when you’re dealing with positively oriented beings, they’re not going to force against your will. This is all very much choice-driven, this is an experience that we have all asked for, we have received it, and each moment - a moment is like [rings a bell, an actual bell that happens to be nearby off-camera] about as long as a bell rings, that’s about how long a moment is. We have to be present, we have to be kind, and—[gets emotional]
 
W: I understand. And I think probably a lot of our listeners do, too. Now you’re in a situation with him, he tells you about this tunnel that he’s dug. And there’s all kinds of things on the internet about the tunnel and where it is. I can assure everyone who’s sure they know where it is, you’re not in the right place.
A: That’s right.
 
W: You go in. What happens in the tunnel?
A: Well I actually – when we were on the way to the tunnel, when we were walking, that’s when the contact really began for me. I was already receiving some really like intrusive images, okay, meaning all of a sudden I’m seeing a face that I wasn’t seeing a moment ago, and it’s not human. And it’s saying hello to me. And I’ll go [grabs head] I just threw my hands up to my head and said “What the eff is going on?” [laughs] is the first time I said it. And Wayne and his friend looked at each other – the other male friend – and the male friend said, “She’s there now, she’s seeing it.” And then we kept walking and I said, “Seeing what?” and it was like, “You’ll see, let’s just keep going.”
So we get inside the tunnel - And this happened several times while we’re on the way. And so I’m watching my footing, my eyes are down a lot on the ground just making sure that I don’t stumble inside of this tunnel. I’m behind the two men, the women are behind me. Things are becoming more confusing, okay. And what I mean by confusing is I’m starting to get like this sense of a disorientation that I wasn’t familiar with.
 
W: That’s why I brought the whole issue of disorientation up a little while ago, cuz I knew we would get here shortly. So go ahead.
A: Yes. Very disoriented in the sense of – not that I’m falling over, not that sort of disorientation. And not in the sense of I’m seeing the walls moving or having some kind of visual hallucinations or anything like that. I’m very aware that I’m in this tunnel and I’m in this physical location and who I’m with and what’s happening. I’m one hundred percent on board but I’m feeling like something is – I don’t even know how to explain it.
 
W: There’s a perceptual disconnect that takes place at this point in many experiences, including my own.
A: Yes.
 
W: If you’ve had the experience you know what we’re talking about. If you haven’t you don’t, and you can’t, we can’t explain it. It’s unexplainable. But it is definitely part of this. When this begins to approach you, a lot of things happen and I’ve gotten used to it over the years, cuz I’ve had that happen many many times. In the first years it was just so profoundly disorienting and not as you say in the way of the walls moving or anything like that. It’s deeper disorientation than that.
A: That’s right.
 
W: So now we are going to see somebody new. What happened next?
A: When we round the corner and I see them, there just wasn’t even a moment of hesitation inside of me, Whitley, it was one hundred percent acceptance. There were these underlying thoughts of “Wow, I knew it.” But also that was like such a small – it was becoming such a small voice. Because I knew it, y’know. So the revelation was becoming less of a revelation as I was moving towards them. And that was part of that perceptual thing that we were trying to talk about. And I don’t know how to explain that feeling except that from the moment of the initial revelation of seeing them to the moment I’m standing beside them, it’s less of a revelation to me. So I don’t know how to explain that except that I was having very extreme conscious communication and I was not only hearing and perceiving their images and all of the information that would come with it, but I was also aware of the conversation that was going on between them and Wayne, which is remarkable.
 
W: In what sense?
A: We were all like in a stream, y’know. I was aware of his responses to the beings and I was aware of what the beings were communicating back to him. But I wasn’t even a part of that conversation other than they were speaking about me, okay. And so if we think about that from an energetic standpoint, just perhaps on a consciousness level, evoking the intention for another consciousness and they pull them in, in a way that they can become connected to that kind of communication. Because it was quite a strong connection we were all having at that moment.
 
W: There’s a level of intimacy associated with that kind of consciousness because the consciousness is not simply confined to the body. It has a field, and the field’s - depending on I guess the situation - it can be a couple of miles. But you certainly entered that field while you were walking into the tunnel and you began to see these images in your head. So, you have been beautifully set up now and we’ll get into the question of that set-up in the third half hour. Now I think something was happening here that I’m not so sure that Anjali entirely is aware of, but we’ve discussed it very briefly and we’ll discuss it more at length in the third half hour of the show. Nothing here is entirely what it seems, let me put it that way. That’s usually the case with this experience... Remember please that this is the only place in the world where this conversation can take place. I have not been going down the road of did it happen or didn’t it happen? Is it true or is it not? Is she crazy or is she not? Was she on drugs or was she not? I don’t care about any of that stuff. That’s in another level of reality as far as I’m concerned. We’re working in this level of reality on this show, and we’re going to go a little deeper in just a moment.

[On Feb 2, 2022, Anjali uploaded the last half hour of her appearance to her own YouTube channel.]

Part 2: What in the World Happened to Anjali Schultz?
An Anjali Presentation in Loving Association with Dreamland.
 
W: [cuts out] …description of what happened once you were physically face-to-face inside this state or place, whichever one it was, we don’t even know.
A: Right, right. So, y’know, I round the corner and they’re all standing there looking at us, and then they greet me. The small one does over to the right. And that was much like what I had been experiencing while I was on the walk to the tunnel where I could physically see everything, y’know, “as it is” [air-quotes] where I’m walking, and then simultaneously I can see something else that is communicating and giving information. So it’s not like I ceased to see what’s around me. The physical material world as I experience it is still there, and then I have like this overlay. So that was like what being in this tunnel was. So they’re standing there and then I get the overlay of communication and I know that they want me to come with them. We go into another room after going down a hallway, where I meet the tall lavender light-purplish being who’s probably over 8 feet tall. I ended up laying down – When this door opened – I’m sorry, I’m just kind of getting flooded with these memories but when the door opened, there were lots of beings in the room. It wasn’t just a few and this was a very large room and there was a table that came right up out of the floor, it just seamlessly came right up and I lay down on it and there was a misty light, like if you can imagine mist that’s like fine little particles of actual light instead of being water, y’know. That’s what it was like. IT was like being in light-fog, y’know.

W: Yeah, yeah. It’s not regular light, that light has got a lot of different properties. Among other things it can lift you right up off the ground.
A: And it lifted it right out of my body, is what it did.

W: Yeah, exactly. I’m not surprised.
A: It separated my consciousness right out of my body. But before that, I just wanted to explain the room a little bit because I had mentioned it before, but I wanted to clear something up that I don’t think I was inside of a ship at that point, but I was explaining how there's a bay of windows that are up like around the top, like partway around this room I’m in, this large, very cathedral-tall room, okay. And these windows – I guess I’d said, I was trying to figure out, Am I inside of a ship? I was trying to figure out what’s happening. They weren’t windows to the outside. It felt, I mean they were dark, I couldn’t see through them. But it was more like a gallery viewing is kind of how it felt. More like being in a ship but I can’t – but that doesn’t mean that that’s accurate.

W: Perhaps you were in a theater.
A: Something — I wasn’t the only [sighs] – There were other tables and I just can’t quite put my finger on it. But I’m fairly certain that I wasn’t the only one such as myself who may have been in the room. I have vague recollections that are just like they teeter right on the edge of my memory. But there were a number of these intelligent highly compassionate advanced beings that were in this room. And they – I was being communicated with, that they – what they were doing, that it felt like a medical evaluation as well as a spiritual one. It was a remarkable experience. And what people – I think the hardest part, and I know that sounds like that would be the hardest part for everyone to accept, right, that any of this actually physically happened to me? But this was definitely a physical room that I was in. But I don’t know where that room was, like I don’t know – in time, space, dimension, like I have no idea. All I can tell you is how I got to that room.
 
W: In our world, we can go anywhere instantaneously using the internet, but we can’t do that physically. There will come a time when the physical experience is the same as what we now have as an electronic experience – if the planet survives long enough. And what you were experiencing is what life is like in a more advanced level, I would think, where physical movement is as instantaneous and ambiguous as electronic movement is for us. So you and I are here instantaneously side by side over the internet, and our listeners and my viewers are watching and viewing instantaneously all over the world. But there will come a time when that kind of activity can be physical or appear to be physical.
A: Yeah.

W: And we already have – we’re moving in the direction of virtual reality and that is going to go down a long path and at the end of that path is a world very much like the one you’re describing, where you really can’t tell where you are or where anybody else is, or whether or not they’re even real in some absolute sense, in your physical presence, or what they are. For example, this tall violet being walked right out of an ayahuasca experience. But you’re not an ayahuasca – you don’t take drugs.
A: No.

W: With your health situation, you say don’t and I believe you.
A: Yeah.

W: So, here we are. What do they ask you to do?
A: To remember that I came here with a purpose and that I have a job to do. To remember who I am and to encourage others to remember who they are. It took me some time to work through a lot of this. The contact with them hasn’t ceased, the conscious communication that I receive from them. They told me that day that I could – how did they say it? Um, that I could always reach out to them. And that we had just like a live connection was kinda how they showed it. That as long as I wanted and initiated it, that it could occur. And so, um, what I have learned is that they have messages that they want to give to humanity and they need a vessel to deliver that message through. And they say that this is my role, this is what I do, that I go through consciousness in various places, as it is developing, and when it is coming towards the end of a cycle of birth and rebirth that has been created specifically for sensory perception learning and growth through experience, through experience, to develop consciousness. Consciousness that wants to think of itself as Whitley and Anjali, but the truth is that Anjali and Whitley are simply expressions of one consciousness. And they want us to remember that.

W: We are explorers in the stream of time, all of us, that’s exactly what we are.
A: That’s right.
 
W: Now, something makes you decide to hold a press conference on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial. What caused to you to decide to do that?
A: Ongoing persistent communication through meditation and conscious communication with the beings, that they wanted to push a consciousness awakening. And they needed to push disclosure to cause a conscious awakening in humanity. Because we are coming to the end of this cycle and that we are going to experience changes that they want to explain and they want to help us prepare for. They want consciousness to understand what is happening. And I have agreed to explain that for them. And so the Lincoln Memorial was chosen through communication with them, and it was not simply a public statement to the general population. It was – I was more making sure that the message was heard by those in Washington DC who understood that alphabet soup that I was spilling about my professional history.

W: Yes, this is a big part of it, I think, because there is no way that there are not going to be elements in the intelligence community who - suddenly a former DIA agent, or officer I should say, with an extensive resume, and a solid resume, ends up on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial announcing that aliens are coming. That’s going to be noticed immediately. [Anjali laughs.] And whoever put you there and convinced you to go there knew it.
A: Yes.

W: And I think part of the purpose was this – to test the waters, to see what their reaction was.
A: Yes. That’s right.

W: And would they be comfortable with this happening, or not. And then things immediately begin to go south. You mention a particular date, December 21st, not knowing that there was – but there were people who heard you, who did know this. There was another massive attempt at communication with mankind that happened on another solstice in 1952 starting on June 21st 1952, the so-called – what developed into what is known as the flyovers, the Washington flyovers. [Anjali suddenly appears to understand what he’s referring to.] That began on that date, not the flyovers but the beginning of the flyover process. And this flyover process evolved over the next few months in ways that the public does not know. But it’s not secret and I can go into great detail about it. In fact I’m working on a book that will have a lot of detail about it. In any case, suffice to say, it was an attempt at communication and it failed. This was, I think, too. I don’t know whether you went into a cave in the Mojave or not. I wasn’t there, I can’t say. I know that you believe you did, and I think it’s possible it may have happened. The degree of physicality that you experienced in that cave is unknown to me, but I do know this: in a sense, you were had. You were used. And the attempt was to find out whether or not this community which is already beginning to loosen up a little bit, was loose enough to do this.
A: That’s right. That’s right.

W: Their habit, always, is to come to Earth. They did that in my life. They offered me a chance to go with them and be with them too early, and they knew it was too early. They knew I wouldn’t succeed. And they knew the intelligence community wouldn’t succeed either. But it is a notice that this is available and it means a step forward has been taken. And you were a part of that.
A: Yeah.

W: Whatever inspired you to end up on the Lincoln Memorial making these claims, I will ever know and I don’t know, but I do know this: it was a very legitimate and noble effort that you made because you must’ve known the trouble it was gonna cause you. And you’re scared to fly – you even drove there all the way from South Dakota or somewhere?
A: Yes. I, y’know, I was very aware – they were constantly telling me that what was the most important about the entire process was soft disclosure. That’s how they kept explaining it. They kept saying y’know like how I can only interpret it as soft disclosure which would be –

W: And on this show that’s what’s happening, we are engaged in a process of moving soft disclosure forward, right?
A: Absolutely. That’s right. Yes, they’re saying it would be a catalyst for soft disclosure and that soft disclosure – and I have said this from the beginning when I first came out about this – soft disclosure must precede physical contact. We must prepare our consciousnesses for such an event. We must be prepared. And they are always evaluating the situation and each moment we are choosing and they are reevaluating. There is an inevitability - they insist there is an inevitability that, as they say, Whitley, “As the veil fails so does the illusion.”

W: What interesting words.
A: And that is inevitable.

W: I would like to go on to a conversation that we had where we were going back and forth talking about the spiritual journey. And you began to channel, I could see it in your face. And you said something that is of critical importance – that is fundamental to making this work. You probably don’t remember what it was but I will tell you what it was. You spoke of the difference between polarity and –
A: Mmm.

W: You remember that? You do remember it. [Anjali makes so-so motion.] Sort of, okay.
A: I can tell you the difference.

W: Well, basically between looking at polarity and duality. Duality is the yes and the no. Yes she’s a liar, no she’s not. Yes he’s evil, no he’s not. Yes this political party is right, no this political party is right. That’s the yes and the no. That’s where the human species lives right now. But you spoke instead of another level which his the level of polarity – this is where we need to go. In polarity it’s not yes this one is evil, no that one is not. It is a process instead of analyzing the energies objectively and using them. This is how species at the next level of being function. They don’t look at it in terms of the good guys versus the bad guys. They look at it in terms of how do we use this energy, how do we use that energy. And at the bottom pole is absolute entropy, absolute silence, motionlessness. But the interesting thing about the upper pole is it goes on forever and becomes more and more deeply engaged in the joy of creation. That’s what you were talking about on that day without I think fully realizing it. But - you may have known more. I’m not, I don’t wanna, you may have known a great deal.
A: I do remember, I do remember a little bit about that, yes. Mmm. It was a very nice conversation, Whitley.

W: It was. I remember it very fondly. How interesting that a player in this has just tried to call me, even though he doesn’t know I’m talking to you right now. It’s Alan Steinfeld. I’ll have to ask him afterwards why he decided to call me just at this moment. How do you know Alan? How did he come into your life?
A: I was invited onto Extraterrestrial Evidence to give a Clubhouse interview. It was my first interview.

W: He is on Clubhouse, yes.
A: That’s right, and so he was on a panel of speakers. He jumped on and he introduced himself to me that night and Roderick Martin, who is a fine gentleman, he asked me it was okay if he gave Alan my contact info and the rest is history.

W: Yeah. Okay, Anjali we have just a few minutes left. We’ve got about oh ten minutes say. What I would like you to do now, if you will, I can continue to ask questions but I sense that there’s a lot you’d like to say, that you haven’t said, that has come to you that you’ve wished you could say and it’s time now, if there is something you would like to say that I haven’t asked about or have touched on and moved off. It’s time for us to talk about that.
 A: Sure, sure. I loved when you said entropy. Entropy is such an interesting topic, interesting concept, because it invites creative destruction. Um, in order for consciousness to have a new experience and to continue to grow and expand, it must start somewhere, y’know. So each cycle, each level, they say, of consciousness development, it is - they say it is a choice that we make to – There’s a choice that we make in order for us to have a new experience and to learn something new about ourselves and to decide, each of us, what we’re going to do with this new part um that we have discovered in this new individual expression that we are each taking on as part of the whole source. And so part of our duty here, our yes our duty to consciousness, to consciousness growth, is to separate internally within our own expressions what is useful to the whole, and what is destructive.

W: Yes, exactly. This is the journey and this is also the energetic journey, because this is what – when you spoke about us being in the timestream and being in bodies, this is the energy that we’re seeking here. It a precise [? unclear] energy. That’s why I always say on my show and on my site, we don’t do politics here and we don’t do politics because politics is bound by the yes and the no. There are really only two political issues – balancing the need for community against the need for liberty. And they have nothing to do with ideology or anything like that. They’re simply technology, if you will, spiritual technology. We don’t recognize that and so we have all of these political systems that are essentially meaningless. Now I would like to go back briefly to about 1990 when we received a letter. In this letter it mentions that the pole of the planet, axis of the planet would shift in the year 2027 [she looks shocked] and now you have been speaking about something in the year 2029 – I know, you look surprised –
A: No, no. No no no. No. I am speaking - they have said 2027.

W: Oh they did?
A: 2027. What-what-what letter? What are you talking about?

W: Oh, among the Communion letters. It’s among the Communion letters that we got from the public.
A: Oh, okay. Okay. Okay. Go ahead, I’m so sorry.

W: No, that’s okay. So what have you heard about this year?
A: They have – they named 2027 as the most likely year that will be the end of this cycle of birth and rebirth. The end of what they have helped to understand as consciousness development in the physical material expression. Um and that there’s going to be massive changes that occur to the Earth in preparation for the next like next density of life to emerge here. And that - to be quite frank they say that we are going to have a tumultuous overturning of the Earth and it will not be habitable for some time. And that this is a natural process, this is nothing to be afraid of. This is just how it is. This was always meant to be impermanent.

W: When you alluded to it earlier, you said that they said it’s not our fault and it’s important to remember that.
A: That’s right.

W: Uh will it happen or not? Well let’s all pray that 2027 is a fantastically uninteresting year. [They both laugh.] Because we have had these predictions many times in our history going all the way back, goodness knows, to Biblical days, and they’ve essentially never happened.
A: [somber] That’s right.

W: Who knows whether this one will or not. Who knows. Now, I’m not sure you’re aware that the journey of the Pharaoh after his death was intended to return to Orion from which he had come.
A: [surprised again, whispers no]

W: And this is the journey of the Pharaoh. Can you tell us about your association with Orion.
A: [sighs] Um. I didn’t know that. I am learning so much today.

W: [chuckles] You didn’t know it.
A: I’m – this last just few minutes, I’m so stunned right now, you’ve dropped huge bombs on me. I just don’t even – [unclear] Um, they say that my consciousness developed and evolved in Orion, in the Orion constellation. Yes, I’m very aware that Orion is not a place, or is not a planet that we are aware of. Um, they say that that is where this consciousness that you see expressing itself right now in this physical body actually evolved. And um I am at a point where I have to serve consciousness now, that’s my, that’s the path that I have chosen. And part of that is to accept uncomfortable tasks such as this.

W: Yeah, I know the feeling, believe me.
A: And so I embrace it wholly. I am so thankful for the incredible transformation that I have experienced in my own life and it has enriched every day that I have had since. Every day I choose to continue on this path that I am on and I couldn’t be more grateful for that.
 
W: Anjali Schultz, on the journey now with the rest of us in the Close Encounter Experience, and everyone on the planet Earth and beyond. What a journey it is. Goodness knows where it will lead us or where we really go when we step into the mysteries of the night. Thank you so much for being with us on Dreamland.
A: Thank you so much. I’m very grateful for your time.

Feb 12, 2022 Anjali Schultz Q&A for Unknowncountry.com subscribers (Whitley Strieber)

This was posted as an unlisted video, which Anjali tweeted out a few weeks later.

Whitley [introducing Anjali]: She had a remarkable experience early I guess in August, was it? Yes. In a cave in the Mojave desert which led her to go to the Lincoln Memorial a short time later and announce that on December 21st, 2021, there could be a meeting in this cave between scientists and aliens, and that it could be videotaped. This cause a huge kerfluffle on the internet with a lot of what I call twitter biting and I thought to myself, this is not what it seems, I’ve been in this business of dealing with the visitors for too long not to know that for certain… I thought to myself, I’m going to sit back and watch what happens here but it’s not going to be what it seems… What I have found since I’ve gotten to know her is a very spiritually intelligent human being… One of the first meetings we had, she began to seemingly listen to someone who was speaking to her during the meeting, inside herself, and she suddenly began to talk about the difference between duality and polarity… For somebody to be able to speak about that, to me means they are very close to this presence in some way. [Welcomes her, invites her to make opening remarks before questions.]
 
Anjali: Thank you all for being here and Whitley for inviting me and hosting me. This is the first group talk that I’ve ever given… this is a new moment and I have to tell you all, I was a little nervous this morning thinking about that. But I thought, why am I nervous? These are people who understand that the phenomena is real and that there are a multitude of experiences out there and a multitude of paths that lead us to answers and enlightenment. I just got in a little meditation this morning and calmed right down. I just had to tell you all that so you understand that I experienced this just like everyone else. I’m really no different from anyone else. Just having a very unique experience that’s been ongoing now since 2018 and I would say that it’s only been the past couple of years, maybe three, that I really began to understand that it wasn’t that I was just meeting beings and having memories of relationships with them and contact with them, and experiencing face to face contact as well as conscious communication with them. It was more than that. I was that I was beginning to understand that what they were telling me was incredibly important. It came at a time in my life when I was really on a search for understanding and had decided to put away my old self and my old ways and to find the life that I felt that I was looking for. And I really didn’t know what that was. So I gave away all of my belongings [talks about giving away a $40,000 hospital bed] … It was one of those beautiful moments where I’d been holding onto something because I felt it had so much value, but it was more like this brick in my life that I was trying to drag it around everywhere with me. ... was a huge empowering moment for me spiritually, to say that I’m no longer identifying with the fear of the future of this body. I’m just going to be present and deal with what it is now and seek the life that I want to live. So it’s open to all of us but it is not an easy path and not everyone has to go through such a creative destruction like I did. But it was necessary for me, it really was. [sighs] Hi, good morning. Thank you for having me.
 
WS: [mentions her going to coffee shop] …things that seem just by chance weren’t at all by chance. [Q] Have individuals in DoD or DIA contacted you unofficially to share their own experiences with the phenomenon?
 
A: I will say that I have frequent contact with people who are in the government and who are actively having experiences now. Yes.
 
WS [Q]: Any relevant revelations made to you by the beings or others in intelligence community since we last hear from you?
 
A: [chuckles knowingly] Of course. I have daily ongoing communication and the more that I connect with others, the more they talk to me. It’s really about sharing the message and connecting with others. It’s not about just my own personal journey. So the beings say that I am to be a catalyst and that many of the things that I do are catalyzing. One of the catalysts was coming forward first of all with not my identity but my experience and seeing how those first reactions to the story, how the story was received, how they were going to understand and interact with me. I went into a community that was not as friendly to experiencers. More nuts and bolts. And frankly male dominated and pretty toxic. I understood that I was walking into a lion’s den then, but I also suspected that there were going to be many government types who were present in that chat room, that subreddit. And I was right. Because as soon as I came forward, I began receiving DMs requesting to contact me through protonmail and other platforms, so they could share with me through a more secure encrypted way. So it was exactly what they said it was going to be. It was quite an eye-opening experience for me. Because here I was for the first time taking action based on what the beings were communicating with me, rather than internalizing it and sharing it with the people near me, and using it to spiritually grow and consciously grow. It was my first time turning that outward and letting other people see it, and it went very much like the beings had said that it would. But it also – I had to take a lot of gruff with my alphabet soup in my Reddit story, alphabet soup of areas of expertise and places that I had worked within the community. So much so that I suffered quite a bit of ridicule from the public who simply didn’t know what they were looking at and thought I was making it up, that I was just making up all those things. I even had people who were active duty saying, those things don’t exist, I do this for this branch of service and I’ve never heard of her. I’m just thinking oh my goodness, of course you haven’t, you would never have a touchpoint with me. And I’m not trying to be rude or anything, it’s just that I was working at a different level where there were just a lot of people that I would never ever have touchpoints with. I mean the military like every organization is this great pyramid. The higher up you go, your customers are smaller and smaller and your contacts are smaller and smaller. And I was always shooting up. I wasn’t shooting down. Everything that I wrote, everything that I did, were for the people above me. Not for the people below me. But it was to get the attention of the right people. So I had to come out and say these things, and tolerate public abuse so that I could find the people that I needed to talk to. Because there wasn’t a number to call, there was no one to pick up the phone and say hey this happened to me and it needs to be explored. We need to research this and this is what they’re telling me, and they actually want me to tell you things, and I can’t do that if you don’t contact me. So the contacts started coming in, but they needed to be wider. And the beings wanted that message to be a much wider spread message, and they wanted to reach several demographics. And so they said we’re going to do this press conference. After a couple of months, after I had begun talking about it, it occurred and all the way there while I was driving I knew that his could all go south, that it was possible. And they were telling me, Look, you know, this isn’t going to be perfect, this is going to be really hard. This is going to be a tough road. Just, you’re doing the right thing, keep doing what you’re doing, keep staying the path. So I was prepared, every step, even at the end I was prepared when Wayne began to feel like he had to move back and put a halt on us visiting the property. They had prepared me for that. So I saw – they showed me the possible paths and one of them is the one that we’re on, so I always knew that there was that possibility. And they always, they would reassure me and say everything is essentially right as rain. That this is a form of soft disclosure. We are going to continually reemerge and retest the waters and keep making these incremental steps forward in soft disclosure. And keep communicating. And so I’ve just continued my relationship with various entities including people in the community, prior and current intel community folks who are very aware that this phenomena is real and that these experiences are absolutely real and that we have changes that are coming, cosmic changes that we cannot avoid. And they want to know how we can circumvent that. What can we do to ease the process as much as possible, and to understand. So I have – I just spend a lot of time I guess in that head space. So, I hope that was a long way around getting to that question but I think everybody probably wanted to know those things.
 
WS [Q]: The beings won’t stop the coming pole shift event, so can you explain the reason for the contact. Are they coming to deliver a message and if so, what is the purpose and reason for the message.
 
A: That’s a lot. We could talk for hours.
 
WS: Let’s get specific. I have thought one reason they’re so hesitant to show themselves is how do they do this, how do they say “Well here we are.” And we say what’s going to happen to us? And they say “Well, your planet is going to fall apart around your ears.” And we say can you help us? What do they say? The answer probably is “We cannot change your fate.” I don’t think we’re going to be ready for that answer. So how do you respond to the core of this question, can you explain the purpose of reason for contact at all? Why do we know they’re here at all?
 
A: Even this question is so tremendous in scope.  [sighs] They’re here now because we have the coming end of two cycles. They say this world that we’re living in right now is – as I tweet quite often – it is a place where we learn through experiential sensory perception, okay. And we are beneath a veil of forgetting that is quite intentional. And it has – I don’t understand it, but it has something to do with sequestration of the consciousnesses that are inhabiting human bodies. So there are beings that are able to inhabit a human vessel that is already inhabited and sometimes it can be a beneficial pairing, like a mutual sharing but it has to be agreed upon by the consciousness that is already inhabiting the human biotechnology. That is the only way that they discuss the human body, that it is a biotechnology designed to hold consciousness.  So we have to start thinking about what does that mean. One of the things is when you ask about revelations, one of the revelations that they have given in the past few months that I’ve only shared with a few, it’s always very difficult, I feel like I’m always trying to baby-step this conversation while being honest about the state of what their message is and why they’re here now and without instilling panic in people that aren’t understanding what I’m saying. Or just complete disbelief. So one of the reasons they are here is because we’re coming to the end of a period of when consciousnesses inhabit human biotechnology on Earth, okay, for consciousness development, one hundred percent for consciousness development. I do not know why, how that happens, I don’t understand the mechanism, I just know that that’s what they say, okay. They say that human biotechnology has been designed to be sequestered to the Earth, within the Earth’s atmosphere. And they say that we will not make it much farther than past the moon in human biotechnology. And that is by design. Because the consciousnesses that inhabit these bodies are here to learn, and they are not ready to have that level of mobility. So they say that the only way – this is, Whitley, this has never come out, okay – the only way that humanity, the consciousness that lives inside a human biotechnology leaves this planet “alive” is essentially by transferring that consciousness into a different technology, a different sort of biotechnology that is able to pilot the craft by joining its neural network with the network of the craft. And the consciousness of the pilot integrates with the consciousness of the craft, and the craft is alive. It becomes a vessel. Do you understand? Now that doesn’t mean that everyone in that craft is flying the craft. What they’re saying is that the pilot, the one that connects, their consciousness connects into the craft. And this is how we would leave the planet alive, without a consciousness break. But not in this technology. And it’s purposeful, and that’s what they say. So that’s one of the reasons that they’re here. They are trying to help us. The consciousness awakening, they show me like these dim dim lights, like if you put a flashlight behind a piece of white paper, not up against it but behind it, how that looks, the dimness on the other side, very ambient. It’s like this dim light that activates in this technology when we begin to become consciously aware, and that’s how they locate us. And they want – they are – it seems we have two groups. We have the group that would like to keep the consciousnesses here in a third density experience, not awakened, and not having a higher experience. I don’t understand a lot of that, I’m still trying to understand why that is. It has something to do with giving humanity choices that I don’t understand a lot of that. And they say that we have several groups here inhabiting human bodies, that we have some consciousnesses that this may be their first time ever being in human body. And then we have other consciousnesses who have – that just enjoy the third density experience and purposely remain. And then you have those – and this is the part that I don’t fully understand, so I’m sort of hesitant to even say it but they say that there have been – it’s almost like our people, is the message. I don’t understand who that is, exactly. But they say we’re looking for our people, and it’s like they’ve been here for so long they don’t – they’re having a very difficult time awakening. And see, they need those lights, they need those lights to come on so they can find them because otherwise they feel that they will just reemerge in the next third density cycle and not be lost, but that’s how it feels and that’s what – I don’t have any other way of interpreting it, but I know that that’s not quite right. It’s almost like they’ll have to – they worked so hard to get to this point, you know, and it’s important that we have this uplift and this awakening for numerous – there’s so many reasons and it’s so complicated that I’m still trying to understand it. I spend a lot of time in meditation trying to understand it and talking with other people and other experiencers. But they say that we do have the choice. But they hope that we choose to leave this experience and that we make that choice before the end of the cycle. That we don’t want to respawn – they want me to correct myself. That we have until the end of the cycle we get to decide if we want to respawn in the third density or if we consciously awaken and can transcend back to our family, is what they’re saying. Go back to our family. Does any of this resonate with any of you? Cuz I feel all alone sometimes. I really would love to know that this resonates with other people. Oh, I can’t – for some reason I can’t hear anyone. I don’t hear you at all.
 
Guy: We lost you Whitley.
 
A: Thank you. That’s not Whitley. Yes, Whitley we can’t hear you.
 
Chip: This is Chip.
 
A: Chip, hello my love.
 
WS: Can you hear me now?
 
A: Yes, hello Whitley.
 
WS: Oh thank god. I don’t know how that could’ve happened. There’s a separate mute button on my thing. It’s not Zoom mute. It was pushed. I didn’t push it. I was talking, everyone heard me a few minutes ago. I ever touched it. Thank you for going on so long… perhaps whoever was with you did not wish for me to interrupt you.
 
A: I didn’t know your mute was pushed until I had stopped talking.
 
WS: A couple of things – this question of human choices is so vitally important. I urge everyone to read this week’s journal entry in Whitley’s journal, unknowncountry.com – last week during the chat I had this channeling that took place during the chat. I transcribed it… it’s directly relevant to the question, a huge question that Anjali has asked: What do we want to do? The next thing is piloting. There is a marvelous interview this week with John Ramirez on Dreamland and piloting is discussed extensively in that interview. I can tell you from experience, when you walk up to a craft that is actively being piloted, in other words it’s running and there’s someone there inside it piloting it, you feel like you’re walking up to a person. It’s really very weird.
 
A: And you are.
 
WS: You are, exactly. God, it feels so good. Ohhhh. Anyway, what we need to learn is if we do this, where do we go? And you can only understand what that journey would be if you are living from your own deepest truth of someone piloting these things. They tried to do this with test pilots and things. It’s so hopeless.
 
A: There is no human that will pilot these crafts.
 
WS: Not yet.
 
A: We can not – they’re saying nope, this biotechnology will never do it. They won’t. Because the neural network, we’re not capable. This technology cannot handle the energy and – that’s what they’re saying – we cannot handle the energy that will be used, that will be circulating with this consciousness. That’s why they keep failing, and that’s why - this is all what they’re saying right now – that they will always fail until they realize that they have to transfer the consciousness into a different type of technology. I don’t know if we have that technology developed. I don’t know. I don’t have any intelligence read-ons anymore, okay, so I only know what they tell me and then what anybody else decides to tell me. It’s very important for them to say that and that’s all I know about that. I’m sorry. Didn’t mean to interrupt.
 
WS: I was just trying to point out there are some other sources available. [Q: I hope Anjali can read the chat to see how many of us resonate with what she’s saying.] You are in the right place, these are your people.
 
A: [sighs]
 
WS [Q]: How has your experience in the intelligence community, especially with your strong mentorship figures, impacted your ability to believe in yourself and trust your experiences? Thank you for your time and bravery.
 
A: Thank you. I would say that how my experience in the intelligence community has affected my contact experience is that I feel that the people that I worked with would know that I would never make up something like this. That I would never make up something, anything, and try to pass it off as something that I had experienced. We just trust each other. There is a camaraderie and like a brotherhood and sisterhood that we afford to each other. And so I always felt very comfortable telling people that I have worked with previously about my experience. As far as the mentorship that I received there, I would say that that type of mentorship affects every aspect of one’s life. When you have touchpoints with superiors who you find to be of the caliber that you want them to mentor you, and you seek out their mentorship, you’re typically looking at many aspects of their life that is attractive to you in some way. And I would say that I learned a lot about ethics and tenacity and commitment to the truth and being transparent in what you’re saying, and having the best intentions. Everyone that I worked with had nothing but the best intentions, and that was to always be able to find a peaceful resolution to every conflict in every US interest, domestically and abroad. We didn’t have a domestic charter, we only have a foreign charter, but that’s literally the intention and the desire of everyone that I worked with. It was a great experience. Hope that helps.
 
WS [Q]: [asks about location of govt bases such as China Lake and relation to special situations in those areas, psychically or energetically]
 
A: Listen, there are so many fault lines that are in that area – microlines, I don’t know, the tiniest lines, I don’t know what they’re called. What they’re showing me right now, they’re showing me tiny fractures and then larger fractures all the way down to mantle. There’s something about the energy and the magnetism of the Earth, the energy of the Earth, and those fracture lines, that matter. I don’t understand how they do but they geology of an area very much has bearing on whether or not the phenomena will be present there. The geology, the magnetism of the Earth, like the interaction – and I’m not a scientist, okay – that all of these things interplay with there being an area where the veil is a little thinner, and they are able to come and go from particular areas. It don’t know exactly about China Lake.
 
WS: [talks about close encounters in magnetized location in upstate New York and limestone in south of England]
 
A: They’re saying limestone and quartz. They’re saying quartz?
 
WS: Quartz is very important.
 
A: [struggles with a word] It’s a black stone and I’m not sure what it – I’m seeing –
 
WS: It’s obsidian.
 
A: Is that what I see? I can’t tell if it’s obsidian or if it’s tourmaline or – I can’t tell.
 
WS: I’m pretty sure it’s obsidian. I’m guessing but I’m pretty sure. [Q] When you had your encounter with the beings, did you have the sense that they dwelled in the place where you met them or it was simply a meeting place?
 
A: I have to tell you that wherever I was when I went into that tunnel and stepped into their base, that structure is a physical structure that exists somewhere, and it appeared to be still inside of the mountain. But what do I know? I have no idea, to be honest. I have always just assumed. I never eve questioned it when people would ask me, are you sure that it was a physical place? And I would say “yeah,” you know, “I walked through a cave, a tunnel, and walked physically right into their base. Yeah, it's there, it’s there. It’s right there.” I’m not really sure where it is, or when. I just know that it has a physicality, and I’m actually working – oh, did I bring it down here? Oh, darn, I was going to show you guys but I left my iPad upstairs. That’s unfortunate. I’m currently working on sketch to explain what the room looked like, the large room that I said had the windows up there. And I couldn't remember what to call it when we were on our interview Whitley, but it is like a surgical observation theater, I think is what it’s called.
 
WS: Many of us have been in places like that, including me. It looks like you’re in a theater and you’re on the stage.
 
A: This, a surgical theater, it’s a little different in that you’re down and the view is up here, right. And all I saw was a half-dome or half-circle, not even half-circle of several windows that were way up, extremely high, high ceiling. So I’m working on that sketch, I was just gonna share it with you guys.
 
[She leaves to get the sketch.]
 
WS: She’s doing an extraordinary job here and I’m so grateful that we finally connected. So are you, by the way. These are wonderful questions. She is in a very special and very hard place to be. This woman has been beaten up as thoroughly as you can be beaten up on the internet, believe me. And yet she is here. They chose her for the same reason they chose most of us – we’re too damned curious to turn away and we’re strong as oxes. We’re not gonna – here she’s in bad health and she drove all the way from, I think it’s Montana, wherever she lives, to Washington DC to what she must’ve understood would make a complete fool of her. And for anyone to say, well she just made that up, is totally insane when you look at her resume. This is a very advanced person in her field, but it’s not this. In other words she’s working in other areas, not in this area. So it would seem. John Ramirez is here and… we did talk about the fact that someone with her life story would have to be profoundly motivated to do what she did. That’s why I didn’t dismiss her like most of the UFO people did. And now that you look under the surface and there’s this extraordinary woman here, doing something that all of us can benefit from because this is what contact is about. It’s not gonna be easy, and it’s going to be always asymmetrical, and by that I mean we don’t learn by being told, human beings, and hopefully beings in other parts of the galaxy are the same way. We learn by discovery. We have to discover things on our own. That’s where we learn. And this is why it’s like this. It’s why impossible ridiculous events turn out to be important. I knew that this was something real on December twenty – when she said announced that it would take place on December 21st. I mentioned this in my interview with her, but I’ll mention it again. On December 21st, that’s the winter solstice. To give you an example of what I mean – [talks about contact attempt on June 21st, 1952]
 
[NOTE: Anjali never publicly gave a date for the expedition, and in fact said she would not be announcing a date. In a comment on the video she says she did tell Whitley and others that her "target date" was December 21. I have confirmed with "Wayne & Trisha", owners of the land, that she never gave them any dates nor any other information about the team and the expedition.]

​A: So sorry, I couldn’t find it. I hid it last night. I have family here. We’re just now doing our Christmas because we have several blended families and my son is married now as well, my eldest. So there’s lots of congregating to do at different homes. They had to wait until they had a break of 2 weeks without any of that before they could come and visit. So we’re just now having our Christmas weekend. I want to just share with everyone – it’s not finished. This is actually – I’m nearly finished with it.
Picture
Anjai presents her painting of "consciousness and the different connections and being visited"
WS: And what does it represent exactly?
 
A: Well, um, these are – everything here represents consciousness and the different connections and being visited. And so these are – it’s like if you’re looking from above, this is like connecting during a visitation.
 
WS: So we’re looking at something that is advanced far beyond our understanding of the relationship between form and reality.
 
A: Yes, absolutely. It’s a gift for my eldest for Christmas. I’m just not quite finished with it. I’m always behind, not just with – I tend to promise too soon I think, because I overbook myself. And I’m not quite as capable physically as I used to be.
 
WS: We’re coming up on the end of our time together, Anjali. [sees Anjali's iPad drawing] What is this?
Picture
Anjali's drawing of the room where the lavender being removed her consciousness, with viewing windows. The lower part will be the bed she was lying on.
A: This is the picture that I wanted to show you that I’ve begun working on, how the inside of the room looked. So that represents the windows above. And the table that I was on is going to be situated in this area here. And then up in here will be the light source that was coming down – I keep seeing Chip’s beautiful face looking at me and I just have to stop and say how precious that is. He is one of my dearest friends. I always tell him he’s my brother from a higher mother, and I just keep seeing his face and it just gives me such joy.
 
WS: I’m glad you’re here, Chip.
 
A: So that [diagram] is the beginning of understanding what the inside of this room looked like. I was in a very physical place and I can’t tell you where that was, I can just tell you how I got there and where I think it is. I’m sorry, I know we could go on for days together.
 
WS: I don’t want to tire you out. I’m concerned about your health.
 
A: Thank you.
 
WS: I know you have family there and you’re busy with that. Just a couple of practical questions – can people contact you and if so, how? And you can always contact her through us…
 
A: The best way to follow me and reach me is on Twitter. My mailbox, my DMs – it’s not full because you never get full but there are many people waiting and many message requests that have gone unrecognized but that I have read. I still think that’s the best place to reach me right now. I am working on having a few different assistants to help me in ways that will streamline this process so that I can reach experiencers who are looking for me, who are having similar messages and similar experiences for whatever reason that they want. I’m working on streamlining that but please be patient with me. Anjaliongaia on Twitter is the best way to reach me. And if you want to talk to me personally, DM me and I will get to you as soon as I possibly can, I promise.
 
WS: [Q] What can we do as individuals, what is the path you recommend for each of us?
 
A: I will not recommend a path for you. That is your responsibility to find that path. I can only share with you what my path is, what my path has been as I understand it and the older I get – I just turned 50 a couple of weeks ago and I have a 50-year journey that has led me to this moment today. I have no idea how many years you’ve been on your journey here and what path you’re looking for. That’s something that you need to discover for yourself. Find those things that bring you joy, that connect you more to the Earth and to other lifeforms as we understand them here. Feel more connected to the planet. Try listening to what the animals are communicating with you, you know. Just recognize that you are actually in a synergetic flow. If you don’t see it, or know it, just accept it, just say – if you haven’t experienced it yet, if you’re waiting for that experience, just set up some kind of daily affirmation or mantra for yourself that removes the barriers that you need removed from your mind so that you can discover your reason for being here and the path that you wanna take. So I’m not prescriptive in that way, just, you know, I can just share.
 
WS: Anjali Schultz, thank you for a truly remarkable journey that we have taken here today.
 
A: Thank you very much. I really enjoyed this, and I would talk with you any time, all of you.
 
WS: There’s been a lot of love in the chat. I’ll be sure to send you a copy of it so you can read it.
 
A: Thank you, yes, I would love that. Will you have this online? Even if it’s an unlisted link.
 
WS: Well this one is very special, and we’re going to publish it for the whole general audience as well as the subscribers because I know the visitors want this out, and I’m going to make it as visible as I possibly can.
 
A: Thank you so much.
 
WS: I would not open the discussion to the public because the people who are here now, most of them, many of them are highly skilled in contact and all of them respect it and its ambiguities and strangeness or they wouldn’t be here. So I want to thank you again, and thank you all folks for coming today.
 
A: I appreciate it. Thank you very much. Much love. Bye everyone. Look forward to next time.

​Mar 13, 2022 Truthseekers with Steven Cambian

[Steven explains that Anjali sent him screenshots of communications between herself, Wayne/Bryan and Trisha half an hour before the show that he was unable to examine due to time constraints. He does not want to read or share them before speaking to Bryan.]

S: Welcome, Anjali.
Hello. Thank you, Steven, for having me today. I appreciate it.

S: …We’ve heard your story and then Bryan’s account.
That’s right.

S: I want to get your reaction to what he had to say, to his side of the story.
Um, my general reaction is that it made me very sad. First, Steven, you told me a few days ago that you had all of our screenshots of our conversations already, so I assumed that you had them.

S: Oh, I’m not sure that I said that. If I did – no, I didn’t have screenshots of conversations between you two.
Yes. That’s what I’m talking about. The screenshots of our conversations.

S: Yeah, and I don’t recall telling you that I had those, but if I did – no I didn’t have those.
In Twitter, you said: “I have all the screenshots too.” That’s exactly what you said and you can go back to your DMs and check that. So I was a little confused when you said that you couldn’t look at mine when I thought you already had them. Um, so I don’t really know what to do if we can’t talk about any of the things that I’ve sent you. Because they’re all in reaction to the video that we had yesterday, or that I watched yesterday.

S: We can talk about them, I can’t really share them.
No, I feel fine talking about it. I have no problem after yesterday. I mean of course there are certain personal things that I would never reveal about anybody, but in general what I was most protective about was that no one would be able to find them, and so now he chose to come out and tell his recollection of the events and has put his identity out there, and I know others have screenshots of this, of our conversations. So I’m sad because when you read through the conversations that I sent you, most of the time what you hear is begging them to just talk to me about what they do remember. “If you don’t remember what I have said to you, what do you remember? You owe me some kind of explanation for what happened there. If you’re saying that I am not telling the right events, you owe me an explanation.” Time and again, Steven, you can read in those messages where I’m begging them to just tell me what they do remember. So you can imagine –

S: Just to play devil’s advocate here, first of all do these people owe you anything? And you kind of involved their family in all of this drama-rama for a long time now. Do they owe you any conversation or explanation? Or are they free to say as they have been saying, “We don’t want anything to do with any of this?”
They are free to say that they don’t want anything to do with this. And they do owe me an explanation for what they remember that day. Because our first conversation that we had – you’ll see that there are quite a few contradictions from what Bryan is saying. And I know that some of that is – a lot of time has passed. I mean according to what they were saying in this conversation that we had, they don’t remember anything. They said many times, “Oh we don’t really remember. We were drunk, I was passed out, yeah we were drinking, we were all drinking alcohol.” I wasn’t drinking alcohol. I did not take any more cannabis at his house.

S: Now’s a good time to ask you, were you on other forms of medication which may have interfered with the cannabis oil, or amplified its effect?
I sent them actually a screenshot that I sent you of the medications that I was on, if you’ll give me just a moment. Oh, actually I can remember them. What I had taken that day was Adderall and my heart medication and Famotidin which is for some spasms that I have in my esophagus. The other medication that I had was Cymbalta that I take when I go to bed at night, and Flexeril as needed, that was also for when I was at home in bed. And that was all I was on.

S: Doesn’t that differ from your original account?
No.

S: I remember asking you if you were on any drugs, maybe you just thought I meant illegal drugs?
Yeah.

S: Because I gotta be honest with you, I’m no pharmacologist but you just mentioned that you were on a stimulant, a sleep medication, a muscle relaxer, and something else –
I’m not on sleep medication. No, I didn’t, no you’re incorrect, and again this is a problem with everybody on the internet who thinks they’re suddenly a doctor because they recognize a few things.

S: Let’s both take a step back because I’m not trying to be difficult here. But you did just mention that you were on like four different medications that are all of different types.
Yes.

S: And we add that to this cannabis oil and your original account saying, “I wasn’t on any drugs.” I got a little bit of a problem with that. My hypothesis has been – listen, I respect that you believe you had an experience, and it’s not my position to say that you didn’t, I just have felt that your experience was somewhat related to a drug event or a combination of drug events.
I know.

S: [tells her of his drug experience in rock bands]
Listen, I don’t take “drugs”. When you asked me if I was on any drugs, I said no. I don’t take drugs. When you asked me if I was on any psychedelics, I said no. I don’t take psychedelics. I never have denied that I was on any kind of prescription medications.

S: But there’s Reddit posts of you describing taking hallucinogenic drugs.
There is one post – and this is such a dead horse, do you wanna beat it some more? We can beat it. That’s fine, I mean it’s a waste of your air time cuz we’re just spinning our wheels over the same thing that’s been resolved and talked about a dozen times. And I can say it again, and nobody’s gonna believe it, but let’s do it. One time I had a powder that a friend of mine gave me that he said was developed - it’s a synthetic mushroom. I don’t really know very much about it. It was a powder form, I had a little bit. It was not around Bryan’s house, it wasn’t even the same year as Bryan’s house. This is one time.

S: No I understand that, but what we’re talking about is that fact that there’s lots of inconsistencies. You said. “I’ve never done an hallucinogens. Well except for this one time.” This is a problem, that’s all.
I said I don’t take drugs and I don’t do hallucinogens. One time, and I’ve already said it, one time. One time, Steven, that’s it. That’s it. And I didn’t even – I don’t even know what a “trip” is because I didn’t have one. That’s the bizarre thing, I didn’t even have one. [sighs] The cannabis did not cause this experience to occur. I remember the inside of his house, I can describe everyone who was there, I know where I was sitting. I know that Stacey was awake the entire night. I know she was. At one point she said she was drunk, passed out, another time she was sleeping, then she said she went to bed and it was just Bryan and I. None of that is true. None of it. I’m just like, excuse me? That is not what happened. She did not go to bed. Did not. She was up until I left. So I don’t know how to explain that. I don’t know.
 
S: Don’t you think that’s kind of a little thing, like maybe he just remembers she went to bed and you remember she didn’t, and that really doesn’t have any bearing on his story that first of all, there’s no tunnel on his land [Anjali nods while listening] and we did a walkaround yesterday off air, there’s no tunnels on his land.
Mmm-hmm. Good.

S: There’s no tunnel, there’s no cave, there’s no entrance, there’s no hidden - there’s nothing obscuring what could be a hidden entrance that I saw. [Anjali nods] And yeah I’m not an expert but don’t you think these details are a lot more important than what time somebody went to bed that night? Because she refutes most of your story and agrees with her husband about the sequence of events, not your sequence of events.
Of course, yes, I understand. What we have – you need to look at our first conversation. I know you haven’t had any time to read the transcripts, but that conversation was – it was much more productive than he has been leading you to believe. First of all, he talks in it about the two tunnels that he’s digging. And he says that he doesn’t know exactly why he’s doing it, and you hear him say that. You hear her say that she was drunk and passed out. You hear them numerous times saying they don’t remember anything that night. I didn’t say that.

S: I’m not sure if you’re aware but you took something called Rick Simpson Oil. One of the well-known side effects, especially in a concentrated or big dose is impaired memory. So maybe they were suffering from impaired memory because of the Rick Simpson Oil that you guys were all dosing yourselves with.
Except they dosed themselves more than once, to his claim. I did not. And I seem to be the one who has more of a memory of that night than either one of them. And this was never supposed to be - we were never supposed to be where we are right now. This is like – for me – I was relieved at first when they came forward. I was like good, okay, now I don’t have to be so concerned about somebody trying to find them and ending up on their property or just whatever. I’ve been trying to mend what had upset them, and tried to give them space. And there have been a lot of mischaracterizations. I think that it is important. You say they’re irrelevant details – well if they’re irrelevant then why did you do a whole show on them? Because it was your show that all these irrelevant details came up. [raises voice] So tell me, are they relevant or not, Steven?

S: Maybe we’re confusing things. I think all of it is relevant.
Thank you.

S: But I think that the more important details are the most relevant, like there’s no tunnel there.
That’s good.

S: Like mixing cannabis oil and Adderall can cause increased risk of psychosis and hallucinations, according to the internet, and yes I was going to bring that up. We originally have: well it couldn’t have been drugs that caused hallucinations. But you yourself have admitted that you were on Adderall and you took this very strong THC-infused Simpson oil.
Yes.

S: And it’s well known that that can cause hallucinations. Again, I get that you believe you had a genuine experience, but when we get to the part where there’s no tunnel, Anjali, there’s no tunnel, there’s no tunnel entrance, there’s no big archway in his house that’s a teleportation machine. There’s no human-looking aliens that anybody else saw, there’s no grey aliens anybody else saw, there’s no purple mantis being that everybody else saw.
Did you want to tell me what happened, or did you want me to talk? I don’t understand what –

S: I’m just trying to get to this – it’s like isn’t that important detail? That doesn’t exist! None of that exists! Except in your imagination, Anjali! [raising voice] None of that exists!
Okay, then we’re done. If you’re just gonna yell at me –
​
S: I’m just trying to get to the – isn’t this relevant, that none of that exists? Let’s both take a step back, you’re right, we’re both getting too passionate about this. And I love a passionate woman, Anjali, so I apologize – oh.

[She ends the call.]

Apr 9, 2022 Calling All Beings: DDD22 with Anjali

[Audio podcast with hosts DJ, Deb, Kevin]

Q: [Anjali is asked to briefly summarize her experiences so far]
 
[4:00] A: I’m not sure exactly where the experience begins but I can tell you my first memory of the higher beings that I’ve had contact with. And that started – that was in 1976 and I often remind people of that when they say, "Oh, it was probably just all in your mind when you thought you were in a tunnel in 2018." And I say, "Well, that sounds lovely. This started as a physical experience in a craft in 1976." And essentially I know two living witnesses – one is my mother, and one is someone who was living in the house with us who was 13 years my senior. I was four. It was in the evening to – oh, you know, it’s hard to know, I was four, I can just tell you that when I first realized where I had just been and I was back, it was dark out. But it wasn’t like pitch black in the middle of the night dark, okay. But what I had remembered for most of my life was running down the hall in the house, jumping on the back of the couch, looking out the window over and through the carport, and seeing my mother and Diana and the other people who were living in the home, and our neighbors. They were all standing in our driveway and in the street and in the yard looking up at craft that was rotating above our house. And essentially it was a disc-shaped craft. There were lights along the bottom edge of it that you couldn’t really tell if it was on the bottom rotating along the sides, or they were actually mounted beneath the craft, but they were multi-colored and they changed as they rotated around the craft. And I have no idea how long it was there.

​And my mother has remembered this for years and her friend who was also living in the home has remembered this for all of our lives. This has been a conversation that we’ve had. And I didn’t put it together with my experience in the desert because I was so focused on that experience in the desert and I really had to work my way back to it. It was actually my mother who reminded me. It wasn’t that I had forgotten, it’s just I hadn’t connected the two. And she said, “Well Angie, you remember in 1976 when we had that craft above our house.” “Oh my gosh, yes. How could I have forgotten that?”

So I was doing a meditation recently, it was last year in 2021, and I have a particular meditative process that I do that involves putting anything that’s distracting me into a box and turning my back on it, so that I can put it someplace else and try to focus my mind back on what I’m doing.
 
DJ: So that would be me. She would put me in a box. DJ, leave me alone, I’m trying to meditate.
 
Yes, DJ is the first thing I have to put in the box. All the time. Just so everybody’s clear. So this particular day, I thought I would do something different. I just wanted to try something new. I thought, well I’m going to put myself in the box and see what happens. So I put myself in the box and I waited until all I could see was bright bright bright white light. When I got to that point where I felt I was centered and everything had been alleviated from my mind, I opened the box and stepped out of it. And when I opened the box and turned back to look into it, there was Earth and I was seeing it from a perspective of somewhere in space. I could see the curvature, the geology, there was no mistaking what I was seeing, I knew it immediately. So I closed it and it became dark and I turned around and as soon as I turned around, there they were. They were standing there, waiting for me.

And with that came the entire flood of being on the craft in 1976. So what that was, was I – what I remember most about the craft is that there were a lot of children that were on the craft and they didn’t look human but they were humanoid. And none of them had hair. Their eyes were a little larger, they were very thin and hairless, and their fingers were a little longer and they were picking, like pinching at my clothes and pulling at it and tickling me and I was just “hee-hee-hee-hee”. I was a four-year-old and I was like “Wow!” I was really – I had all these little playmates and even though I have the memory of them being different, I didn’t really feel like they were different. I just felt like they were different. They looked differently. But they weren’t any different than me. And they told me – there were four adult beings in the room, three or four, honestly I can’t remember right now, and I don’t think it really matters. But the size of the children were from about my size to a little smaller, a little taller, and so I’d say they were all probably – I was tall for my age so they were probably all about my age and a little older, maybe up to 6 or 7 years old, if I had to take a stab at it.

And so the beings communicated to me that these were my brothers and sisters and that they had been basically taking my mother’s eggs for quite some time and trying to genetically modify, enable to, be able to hold a consciousness. So they would reimplant the egg in whatever they did, and if it seemed like it was viable, at whatever stage it was, then they would have reimplanted it into my mother. And that was me. I was the only one. Because somehow, and this is science beyond what we can do right now, somehow they knew that those eggs weren’t reimplantable, that it wasn’t going to be viable, that they wouldn’t pass for human. And so we weren’t looking at a situation where they’re taking babies out of humans, not in this situation. What we were seeing was taking eggs, and if they can pass for human and they’ve been modified to hold our consciousness, then - because it requires a different kind of energy, and this is just a biotechnology. I talk about that a lot. I like to talk about biotechnology because it’s science and it reminds us that we’re really no different than another type of lifeform that also has to have particular structure and technology within it to be able to function, to be able to do certain things, to be able to react and have processes that have an internally – anyway, I’m sorry, I digress.
 
Deb: Do you feel like [the children] were emotional? I have a lot of concern about the idea of children that have human traits but may not get to express those.
 
A: Oh, they were experimenting with the way that my clothes felt, the way that my skin felt, my hair. They were curious and playful and yes, they definitely expressed emotion. It was quite – it was one of the greatest revelations that I’ve ever experienced in a meditation. I’ve had a few like really revelatory moments and that was one of them.

[13:30] Since then I’ve had more time with the beings as well as being regressed with Barbara Lamb. What a lot of people misunderstood, and that’s my fault because I didn’t communicate it very well, is that there was a lot of backstory that I had shared with Barbara and my goal was not to articulate out loud to everyone what I was experiencing. The goal of this very long session that we had was for me to be able to go back to specific moments and interact with the beings, remember what had happened and to have interaction with them in that time and space. So there were a lot of quiet moments and you hear in the recording just a lot of “Ah! Oh!” And it’s a little embarrassing because nobody knows what’s going on. I’m just reliving a lot.

So I got to go back and relive those moments in the craft when I was a child. And then there were other moments when I was a child that I have linked to it now. Missing time when I was 11, very early in the morning seeing what I thought at first was an owl sitting on a limb outside of our tree, or outside the window where I was eating breakfast there’s a tree and there was an owl sitting there that transmorphed, I guess is the only way I know how to say it. And in doing that I saw the face of a being, a typical what I’ve come to know as a droid, okay. Which is just another vessel to hold a consciousness. We need to be careful about thinking that because it’s a droid then there isn’t a consciousness in there. But the truth is they can move consciousnesses into various vessels as long as it can energetically support the consciousness. What’s needed for the support of that body, that biotechnology or other kind of technology that we’re put in, that’s a separate issue. So we have two issues, the first is you have to create a vessel for a particular consciousness to be compatible with the energy of that vessel – essentially so it doesn’t short circuit, okay? I’m not a scientist, I’m gonna remind people of that all the time with the ridiculous things I say.
 
DJ: By the way Anjali is not a scientist, nor are any of the other three of us.
 
A: That’s right.
 
DJ: I do have something beyond asking if you noticed the roses on my shirt and who that might be for, that’s on this program… It’s for Anjali!
 
A: Thank you very much. I thought maybe you were a Whovian, a Doctor Whovian, and that you were trying to make a callback to Rose.
 
DJ: I have felt that there isn’t a technology that can create a consciousness, that for that is why they require us, essentially, or what they got from your mother or another person or [Whitley] Strieber. Do you believe that technologically you can create a consciousness?
 
A: I don’t really have an opinion on that because I don’t know. I don’t understand the mechanisms by which any of this is taking place. From my understanding of my communications with them, this particular vessel that you’re seeing was the result of my mother and someone else’s genetics, okay, but they take that egg, they take it out and make changes to it. They actually are putting some of their DNA into that egg. That’s my understanding is that they’re actually changing that so that they can – there’s something about their level, their genetics that makes their energy different than ours, like the expression of that energy, okay. It’s not the source of that energy is different, it’s the age of it, how powerful is it, what’s it capable of, what kind of vessel is capable of holding it. It’s like the difference between making something that can hold the flame of a candle and making something that can hold the sun.
 
DJ: In your opinion, could they create it without the egg that they took and manipulated?
 
A: I don’t think so. But I don’t know. What they have said - oh, I’m so sorry Deb, go ahead.
 
Deb: This kind of lines up with something I’ve been playing with lately, I have been shown it… My idea is that there is some form of energy, God, the Source, is shedding consciousness through the universe… It seems to be with orbs, somehow. That energy is almost like software that gets put into a computer that is our body. There’s different names for it – the soul, chi, consciousness, I think they’re pretty much all the same.
 
A: Yes. The spirit.
 
Deb: And I believe that is what’s going on. I’ll show you a painting later that I did of that. God is a ball of energy where consciousness comes from and that creates it and spreads it throughout the universe.
 
DJ: Can a computer or machine create that?
 
Deb: I think no. I think the body, yes. [they go on for a bit about simulation theory]
 
A: There’s a couple of things I want to say about that. One is that the thing I have learned that the beings are trying to communicate to us, and when I tell you this, I’m not saying that I can verify what they’re saying, I can only tell you that this is what they have said. And yes I do have a natural trust for them. I can’t explain it. According to them we’ve had a very long relationship and that just might be it. So they have talked about the different densities of consciousness, which is not the same thing as dimensions. You can be – like I am a third-density consciousness in a third-dimensional world. It could easily be: I am a third-density consciousness, let’s say fourth-density consciousness in a third-density, fourth-density, fifth-density world. Excuse me, dimensional. Third-dimensional, fourth-dimensional, fifth-dimensional world. So we could actually end up – how do I say this – having touchpoints with other forms of life, or other avatars, other biotechnology, that is holding consciousness, that come through - they’re in physical form right now and they come here from a different dimension. And the beings have said that as we keep experiencing some Earth changes we’ll see more and more of that happening, and that will give us more contact with them and we can come back to that later.

Real quick, I don’t want to dominate this but it’s hard to explain and I want to just try to do it quickly as I can here, but there are these different levels of consciousness and as we go through them, and they call them densities, then we begin to coalesce and to become not dependent on a physical form, but can exist in a different form as a strictly light being and that we choose the people, the consciousnesses that we coalesce with as we move up, and that the goal is for consciousness to coalesce into positively or negatively oriented, and for that as you move through the light density and you become higher in those densities, then – I’m sorry, I’m getting distracted because I have all these, I’m so sorry, all my devices, I forgot to silence things so everything’s coming through right now, all my –
 
DJ: It’s all good! Girlfriend’s got more densities than an overcooked pound cake!
 
Deb: I would love for you to replace [the term density] with a term that’s more accessible for people. Is it a little like a yo-yo going back and forth, the consciousness going back and forth, back to the source and then back into the different bodies essentially?
 
A: Well that’s only if you’re trying to incarnate into a physical body. The ultimate goal is to spread consciousness and to spread it out so that light goes out into dark, okay. So they want the light consciousness – the density of the light, how much light and knowledge and wisdom is in a consciousness determines its density. It’s like a little light that’s actually inside. As we move up through densities, the light coalesces and we learn more about how creation works, how people work, how the world works, because the idea is that we all coalesce back together. Not all of us, but whoever’s going to coalesce, that you coalesce and you become the next creator, okay. And what the creator does is decides to split its consciousness and to go out and spread it that way. And the creator wants to forget itself so it can experience again, and learn what about itself it wants to keep and what it wants to get rid of in its own self. So that each time the creation just improves, okay. And in this way, this spreading and recoalescing, life grows and consciousness grows throughout everything, just endlessly, on and on and on.
 
Deb: Grant Cameron said something like that, God is entertaining itself with our experiences.
 
A: Absolutely. In fact in a sense, when we’re in a form where we are not recognizing that our consciousness is part of source consciousness, we are in the throes of figuring out what about this part of our consciousness that has been split off is worthy of being rejoined back with the source of light, which is essentially what consciousness is. Some of these older beings that have been around longer can travel on light, they can just be pure light, and a lot of the physical forms that they tend to take on for us when they’re older like that, and they have a brighter light coalescence, are not forms in the sense that we understand them but are more like an expression of themselves for our sensory eyes to be able to detect them.
 
DJ: So in terms of density, I’d be like at a 27, do you think?
 
A: You’re so bright, I should be wearing my shades, like you are.
 
Deb: One thing I would love to break down for you is just making this content so much more accessible for the public, because I know a lot of people understand density and consciousness but there’s so many other people who don’t. I think they got lost in those words, but everyone understands light and spirit. I tweeted to you “I think that’s scaring people because they don’t understand!” But that’s another conversation. I’d like to transition into the next experience, the one you presented in DC. There are some questions DJ has been saving about that.
 
DJ: I hope you had some pound cake at the coffee shop.
 
A: I didn’t, unfortunately. I didn’t eat anything.
 
DJ: A foursome of strangers meet you in a coffee shop and invite you to [their] house. Other than them telling you that you could encounter and meet aliens at their house, what else could they have said to you that would’ve had you say, "Yes, I’m going to take a photo of your license, forward it to my daughter, then trek a couple of hours out to the crib with you." What else could they have said to you other than aliens?
 
A: Um, well that part of the story, that they were 2 hours away, that was what I call – it’s harmless, but that was simply to try to prevent people from identifying him. His home is actually less than I think 2 minutes from the coffee shop that we were at.
 
[33:12] DJ: Oh. Okay, 2 minutes. You’re still – what would draw you to go to a stranger’s house – I mean, if they’re gonna say “We’re gonna go smoke 5 joints,” I’m guessing you’re saying, “I’m not going. We’re gonna have a 6-pack of beer.” So what else other than aliens would’ve drawn you to their crib?
 
A: Well, where we started the conversation, number one I had already started having conscious contact with the lavender being, is all I know at the time. And so I was in a different place, okay. My world was really rocked. I really wasn’t sure what was happening or why it was happening and I was trying to make sense of it. And I didn’t even know who I could safely tell about it, you know? I was concerned what someone might think about it because it sounded nuts. But there were some things that he said that seemed to ring familiar and had the ring of truth to them, and sounded like some of the things the beings had been saying to me. So that had already occurred, where he was talking about health and energy body burden, and some other things that we were just understanding eye to eye about both of our bodies. And they were extremely friendly, extremely approachable.

So when we had been talking to them for quite a while when he asked what I thought of aliens, and because of what I had been experiencing – and because of what I remembered of my childhood and everything else - I was just very interested. My daughter and I had seen what we thought were craft in the desert on a few different occasions. And we would often go to a couple of different places to try to see if we could see another one. So we were already very interested at that point, and so when he stated that there had been a lot of sightings above his mountain, and he stated that he had become very curious about it, and had gone up, was on top of the mountain one evening watching the sky and watching for a craft, and he says that he met beings up there. That’s what he told me, he said he met aliens on top of the mountain and that they told him they had a base inside the mountain. And the next thing he knew, he was digging a tunnel to get in. And then here he was, telling me about it. Did I wanna go see?
 
DJ: My point is that any one of us would’ve gone.
 
A: Absolutely.
 
DJ: But had they said you wanna come and party at my house?
 
A: No.
 
DJ: Me being in my mid-50s, I probably would say "No, thank you for the invitation." So my question to you was, what else could they have said to you that would’ve drawn you there, other than aliens?
 
A: Oh! I misunderstood your question. Yeah, there’s just nothing they could’ve said.
 
DJ: Right.
 
A: Other than to say, "Hey, we used to work in intel also. And hey, we did this and we did that." And then suddenly we have commonality and we would’ve been exchanging numbers and making plans. It wouldn’t have been a, probably a let’s hop over to their house right now, kind of situation. I don’t think there’s anything else that anyone could’ve said–
 
[37:10] DJ: That was my point. That’s why I believe you and not him.
 
A: Oh well, I think – be careful DJ. I don’t disbelieve him. And what I mean is that I think that there is a very good likelihood that they either don’t remember that, any of that, or they – this is crazy, and people have been, they have been suggesting this to me and I know - I’ve been so scared to say it out loud or talk about it with anyone because I know I’m just gonna get killed over this out there. But they may not be the same Wayne and Trisha that I met at the coffee shop. I may not be in the same place that I was then. Or they may not be. Something could have happened so that other points –  something that could make it all true, make what he’s saying, that they don’t remember, that they don’t remember any of that happening, and that they haven’t found a tunnel, that could all be true. I don’t think that they’re necessarily lying about either one of those things. I didn’t find them to be liars.
 
DJ: That’s fair, but on another podcast they were saying they never mentioned anything to you about aliens and they were offering for you to come home and party.
 
A: No.
 
DJ: And I said I don’t believe that.
 
A: No. That wasn’t it. And in fact – but that may be what he recalls, okay. And I think that that’s important. It was definitely already arranged before I had the cannabis oil. So I don’t know of anything that can go back and change your memories of what happened before you had something in your system. Because we all took that at the same time. There were four other adults, we had already planned to go to his house when they walked in and he told them what they were gonna do – “I’m gonna take her to see the aliens in the tunnel.” He’s like, “Ah, cool man, cool!” It was like, “You wanna come along?” “Yeah. Sounds great, let’s do it.” And I don’t remember exactly what was said, but it was something about, “Yeah, I was gonna give her some of the cannabis oil,” or whatever it was, and he told me how to do it, and we did. And I only say that because I wanna make sure everybody understands at which point I had the oil in my system. And I also had not taken any of my medications that day. They were medications at night. The only thing I took during the day was for my heartburn and that was it. Everything else was in the evening.
 
Deb: I know someone who is a heavy pot user and they heard about your story, and they’re like “There’s no way you hallucinate with pot. What are they talking about?”
 
A: That’s right.
 
Deb: I will say I have extremely vivid meditation sessions. Some people have told me it could be trances. We can get relaxed to a point where we get to other place. Grant Cameron implied that other place may be more real than this one. When I say that “other place” I mean the place where all of these things can be. But I understand you had, from your memory, a physical experience. Was it cold in the cave?
 
A: It was cool. It was also in January but it was the desert. I remember I was wearing jeans and boots that day. I don’t remember what top I had on but I was comfortable. I could tell it was cooler in the tunnel. Cold, I wouldn’t say that. We’d also been walking which wasn’t something I did a lot of, okay. I was feeling better at this point of time, and I have these periods when I will feel better for a few days. Sometimes for a couple or even three weeks. And then it goes tumbling down. But luckily I was in one of those periods or else I wouldn’t have met them. I would have never been sitting in that coffee shop that morning, I wouldn’t have had these two people sit down beside me and take me to their home and transform my entire life. I’m forever grateful for the experience.
 
Deb: [has a theory the beings are from a darker colder place]
 
DJ: [says he listens to her Roderick Martin interview “over and over, I love that”] When you encountered the lavender being, 8’ tall mantis type being that was very kind with you, did you feel touch?
 
A: I do not remember me touching them. I remember a feeling of touch, and I also have – when I was asking them, when we were talking about the expedition and what the end goal was, and I asked them, “Are you going to be – I mean what are we doing here? Are we talking about you walking out of this tunnel with me? Is that what we’re talking about here? Or something else?” And what they gave me was: standing next to each other and I’m holding their hand, and we’re standing at the edge of the tunnel right out of the sun, and I can feel their hand in my hand and it’s cool, it’s not dry but it’s not moist. It’s soft, um gentle, um waify, um very gentle. I mean the touch is there and the sensation is there. I guess it’s their spirit that’s coming through, through this touch and through palms touching. If we talk about chakras, which I’m not an expert on in any measure of the word, but I know enough to understand that these are major chakra points, or minor chakra points, that we can transfer and accept energy. So it kinda makes sense that I would have such an emotional – and um - because I started crying you know, when I had the experience, I cried because it was so beautiful. I just didn’t wanna ever forget how it felt.
 
DJ: If I’d traveled to the cave with you, I was gonna ask them to do the bro handshake. I guess you didn’t think to reach out and touch their hand when you were there.
 
A: No. In fact, when I was with the first Grey that spoke to me immediately and the Tall Whites that were escorting me, I had the sense that I wasn’t to touch anyone. I felt the Tall Whites – there was a sense of, just a detachment. Maybe aloof would be a better way of putting it. Just more aloof and there to do a job. They were more – they weren’t interacting with me, they didn’t speak to me, they didn’t do any conscious communication. When I say “speak”, none of them moved their mouths when they spoke. It all came through conscious communication right into my head with an image and like a download. Everybody was calling it download and I couldn’t believe – I was like, “Yes that’s what I’ve been calling it, I’ve been saying it was like getting a download.” I couldn’t believe there were people out there who talk about it in that same way because that’s exactly what it felt like. It was the first time that I had been in their physical presence, that I knew at that point, and was experiencing that kind of communication at the same time. But there definitely was a sense that they were there because I was there. They were security, is kind of how it felt, because I was there and because Bryan [Wayne] was there and the others. And so they weren’t there to make friends in that moment.
 
Deb: It could be risky for them to touch us because of germs, things we can’t even think of.
 
DJ: Hopefully they have hand gel in the cave.
 
Deb: Kevin has come to talk about his own experiences and probably has questions too.
 
Kevin: I wanted your take on my experience. [He explains how he lost 3 hours on the couch before bed and they can't access the security camera footage, then his nerves flared up the next day. And he has a scoop mark on his hip from childhood.] I wanna know what happened, it’s a time loss experience basically. I don’t know where to go from here.
 
A: Mmm hmm. Well. Yeah. I – I – I don’t – I can’t tell you what happened to you during your time lapse, missing time experience. But it sounds like you may have had some kind of touchpoint with the phenomena. I don’t know who it would’ve been but you know that there are often health effects that people who have a lot of contact with the phenomena suffer from. A lot of them are chronically ill, lifelong problems that come and go, sometimes multiple problems. This body is just an absolute mess for me. I don’t know what your health status is, but you talk about flare-ups and that’s something I can relate to. Have you had any other missing times?
 
Kevin: [Sometimes gets to places faster than expected in the car. Has regular sleep paralysis.]
 
DJ: Also when I call you Kev, I think you consider that missing time, right?
 
A: What I would suggest Kevin, my advice to you would be – do you have a meditative practice?
 
Kevin: I do. I meditate but I’m still figuring it out. I’ve gotten to the empty place a few times. I don’t know if I’m going the wrong direction. Are you supposed to not empty your mind?
 
Deb: You don’t have to empty your mind, Kevin. Make a place. Pick a place. It works way better.
 
A: You know, you have to find out what works for you. When you find that meditative practice you’ll realize it because of the way it changes all of your perception around you, like it just becomes a little deeper. And you may be able to go in with the intention of going back to that place and seeing what happened, and some people consider that remote viewing. It’s essentially just your consciousness accessing wherever all of the information is, and you can actually relive that moment. If you want, you know. But it takes work. It’s not something you get just because you want it.

​When you start making contact with the beings there are some precautions that you wanna take. You really want to make sure your intentions are good, that you’re doing this for healthy reasons, to grow spiritually, to gain wisdom and knowledge and to understand the nature of consciousness and your place within it and your connection to everything else. When you start really living every day with that in mind, when you look at – if you have a pet and you look into that pet’s eyes, you look to see the eyes of a creator that has forgotten themselves and if you can look into them and get to that place and say, “Ah, there you are,” you know, it’s a tender tender place that you can get to. And that’s where I experience the beings, when I am in that frame of mind. And it’s kind of a meditative lifestyle where you are constantly reminding yourself to be present and to embrace the intentions you’ve set and to explore them.

And that really helps to prevent other beings that may be less positively oriented and may have an alternate agenda – I don’t wanna say that they’re bad or they’re evil, because they’re on the same circle of consciousness and light coalesce and it’s like if you take a color wheel but it’s only white and black, so the colors have to change into one another. So imagine that and then there’s a line that goes through from you, wherever you are on that spectrum, it cuts through. And so for each person there is a pole, like a polarity along it that we travel along and there’s another point of consciousness doing the same thing but we’re moving along this spectrum, everyone is, all the time. So when you set the intention of moving along that spectrum into light, even so that you can send – if a negative being, a negatively oriented being were to reach out and try to make contact with you, you can say, “Oh, I’d really love to be able to talk with you but it can’t happen right now, I’m sorry, I send you so much love and I wish for you to only experience compassion and kindness on your journey.” And then you just sever, however you need to – open your eyes, whatever it is you need to do. So it’s a process and it doesn’t just happen right away. It can take months of working that and setting your heart and your mind right.
 
[DJ & Deb give their advice to Kevin on meditation. Deb says she’s not always so nice with negative beings, she argues with them to try and help them figure out how to connect to us.]
 
Deb: Feel free to answer these questions briefly [from listeners]. Have you experienced other aspects of the phenomenon beyond meditations and visitors, like astral projection, lights in the sky, poltergeists?
 
A: I have seen lights in the sky that didn’t make sense to me. It behaved in ways that didn’t make sense. I have definitely had disturbances within my home, auditory where you can actually hear someone speaking. The last home I lived in that was really active in that way was in California and it at a home I lived in with another contractor. We were just splitting a house, which is what a lot of contractors do in California cuz the rent is so expensive. He was a very good friend of mine. This particular night, I can’t remember what show we were watching. Doesn’t even matter. We were watching a show – I think it was maybe Outlander, it’s been years ago, it was like in ’16. Right between us, a woman – I can’t remember what she said now, but she spoke, like several words together, like a whole phrase. It had something to do with the show, I can’t remember, he may. But we both just looked at each other.

Right before then, just a few minutes before then, I thought I had heard a woman talking over by the table where I had all my art stuff set out, and that was just behind that. I asked him, “Did you hear that?” and he said, “No, I didn’t hear anything.” I was like, hmm, okay. And then it was only a couple of moments later that we heard it right between us. We’ve also had, I’ve heard what actually sounded literally like chains being dragged through our wall in that same house. A woman talking several times. And I have seen beings that looked like they were straight-up human apparitions in homes. I’ve had objects move in my home, in front of me. I’ve seen it happen. What else? So yes, lots.
 
Deb: [theorizes about why it happens] What have you learned about the current state of people’s opinion on the phenomenon – are we ready? Knowing what you now know about the UFO community, would you go back and change the way you came out as an experiencer?
 
A: The only thing that I would change is, if I could go back, it would be how much information I gave about where the event took place and the background of the people who were involved. Meaning Wayne and Trisha – I don’t even feel comfortable saying their names.
 
DJ: You know it’s out there, right.
 
A: It’s out there, and I just – well, she even said, “Stop calling him Wayne.” And I’m like, I understand but I – I just have a hard time with it. Especially now that they say, “Well that’s not what we remember and we don’t have a tunnel on our property.” I have to stop and take pause about that. And trust me, I think about it a lot. Anyway, I’m so sorry, I’m totally getting off subject. But that’s all I would change.
 
Deb: The other part was, are people ready?
 
A: Right. You know, I wouldn’t change it because I have to believe that when they say this is a catalyst for consciousness, for conscious awareness, I believe that. I believe that I’ve taken some really hard hits but through that people are making the choice of whether or not they want to be open to hearing what the beings are saying - that, hey, meditate, evolve your conscious awareness, you’re all connected to each other, you’re connected to us, we’re all one consciousness from one source. You chose to fracture and be here and you’re trying to grow, to get rid of the things about yourself, about this expression of consciousness that isn’t worthy of going back to the source.

And I know that sounds like a bunch of religious mumbo jumbo but it also makes sense if you think about it from even a basic biological evolution. As a biology evolves, it evolves to meet the needs of its environment and to grow and propagate. So I don’t see that that’s any different than that. I don’t see it so much as a religious statement as it is a consciousness statement. And that’s why I get a little nervous about using the word spirit, because it has a religious connotation. I’m a spiritual person, I do know some Christian doctrine. I don’t know very much about anything else. I’ve read, I know some things.

I think it’s important to recognize that even when things don’t turn out quite the way that we expected them, that doesn’t mean it wasn’t fruitful in its outcome anyway. They told me from the beginning there was a very good chance this was gonna go sideways. I knew all along that it could go sideways and that it could end up that we’re exactly where we are, where I’m estranged from Wayne and Trisha. But they have also said that it’s okay because it met its requirement for people to hear about the experience. And if you look back at what was said on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial – oh, good lord, I have a little bit of anxiety every time I think about it, to tell you the truth. There was a lot of alphabet soup in there – part of that discussion was to reach people in Washington DC. Not to just reach people who were in ufology and in America, but to reach those who are policy makers and who know, and those in Intelligence who are experiencing. There’s a lot of us in the Defense Department who have had amazing, incredible experiences and we’ve even talked about it with one another. And not everyone feels like they can handle what I’ve gone through. And so I don’t feel like the beings feel let down or that I do. I feel like everything is probably right as rain, and it always is. It always is.
 
DJ: When I became aware of your story, I said there’s no way she’s using [their/her] real name. But what is human is give as much detail as you can to bolster your story. That’s why you inadvertently gave more detail than you wanted to. There’s no way someone would give their real name.
 
A: And I did.
 
DJ: And you didn’t, right.
 
A: No, I did.
 
DJ: Oh but their real name isn’t Wayne and Trisha.
 
A: Oh, their real name.
 
DJ: I knew that you wouldn’t. Second part – I can’t remember my point.
 
Deb: John Ramirez says hi. Speaking of intel agents, I’m very fond of him, he has such a great soul…
 
DJ: We’re having on Kate Casey (Clinton Whitehouse) who knows nothing about the phenomenon… She would’ve been great for you as a public relations person, to tell you what and when and who and where. Somebody like that would’ve been enormous because I find you to be extremely credible. That’s not because I have a crush on everybody, okay, I can see beyond that. This is a dumb question I had. What does Anjali love to eat? Your favorite food?
 
A: My favorite food?
 
DJ: I would’ve answered by now. Just to show you she doesn’t eat enough.
 
A: Probably, maybe street tacos? I don’t eat a lot of meat, I do every once in a while when I’m craving it. Um, so probably fish, probably. I eat [--?--] lots of fruit, things like that. I love curry. I love Indian food. Pakistani food.
 
Deb: [listener Q] You tweeted you relate to a scene from Contact... How can we appreciate the validity of your experience rather than taking it on face value, absent verifiable evidence?
 
A: You need to seek what you’re wanting to find, and you probably will. There’s definitely a mind-body consciousness balance that I think people reach in these moments where they’re having contact with the phenomena. I don’t really know how to tell other people to have the experience that I had, I can just tell you how I got there and what has benefited me and led to ongoing contact, and establishing a meditative practice and carrying that practice and that understanding - that we are all connected through energy and light, and that we are surrounded by the phenomena and that it’s not a part of some science fiction story, that it’s a part of the human story. It’s actually a part of our lives that we are going to be experiencing until we’re no longer in these physical bodies.

So I guess if you – I don’t wanna say – I once said to someone "Fake it until you make it." And what that meant is that - develop or - adopt what you’re looking for, adopt the worldview, develop a mantra that will lead you to where you want to go, okay. So you don’t necessarily have to set a specific kind of intention, just what is it that you’re trying to understand about the phenomena? Do you want to have an experience where you understand that we’re one consciousness? That we’re actually connected to each other energetically and through frequency and vibration? If you want to understand that, then when you’re meditating, set that intention, develop a mantra that expresses that, and then live the lifestyle that could reflect it. And you’d be surprised at the synchronicities that start opening up, the people that you meet, experiences that you have. That’s what I would suggest. Seek what you’re wanting to find. And seek it with goodness in your heart.
 
Deb: I have the impression they’re trying to figure out how to disclose to us. They’re all over the place right now saying hello. They’re getting their photo taken. They’re communicating with certain people. That’s why I got called in to do this. What’s your thought?
 
A: Yes. You asked me earlier, are we ready and I didn’t answer that part of it. It doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter if we’re ready or not. It’s gonna happen. There is a certain inevitability about our contact with them that they keep expressing to me. And that they keep expressing to others. It has something to do with the changes that the Earth is going to go through that will make it inevitable that we will be able to actually have – we will be able to see other - perhaps its dimensions, I don’t really know what it is, but we will see the other people, the other forms of consciousness that we share this world with, that we share the same space with. And so, ready or not, they’re gonna come because they’re already here, and what’s going to come is that we’re going to see them, that we’re going to perceive them. So it doesn’t really matter if we’re ready. Of course they would like as many of us to be ready as possible. They don’t want to incite panic, create panic in the mind.

You know, there’s more than one group of beings and higher beings that are out there, so we have to talk about that some time, and that’s probably a whole other episode. I have a triangle – a pyramid, actually, of the beings as far as I understand them. It’s not a hierarchy, it’s based on their density, essentially, and how that turns into their area of operation and then how that turns into the message that each one of them is trying to convey to humanity right now. And then how that targets their audience. So I have this four-pyramid system that goes into a circle and I would love to share that with you guys some time. Like I said it’s a huge [--?--]
 
Deb: I’d appreciate that because I feel like there’s a very systematic approach not only from our government but from our friends. Q: You’ve spoken about an alliance of races and a council. Linda Moulton-Howe mentioned a council of five. Can you explain that briefly?
 
A: Honestly, I can’t explain that briefly. The alliance of races and the council of five, that number has changed over the years according to where we are in the cycle of birth and rebirth that we have been experiencing here. Right now we’re at a point where everyone has congregated back now, and they’re all fulfilling their different parts of the end of the cycle. Their different roles. They have different roles, they have jobs to do just like we all have jobs to do.
 
Deb: Everyone talks about how snobby and rude they are, just an FYI.
 
DJ: This is perfect for a part 2, we can dig into this.
 
A: Honestly, I’m not trying to spread it out but with the four pyramid structures it could take – we could honestly take some really good time to go through that some time. And that feeds heavily into who is the council, why are they here, what exactly are they trying to accomplish?
 
Deb: Why do they diss humans who try to talk to them, who go there with their light beings, try to get help from them, they diss them.
 
DJ: I’ve got something more important than this. Anjali could you talk about what kind of haircare products that you use? Is it a mousse, gel?
 
A: Let me tell you, you guys will love this. I didn’t do anything to my hair and that’s why I keep touching it.
 
DJ: It looks so great.
 
Deb: That’s the great thing about audio.
 
A: My hair used to be stick straight. Stick straight. And this is ridiculous, the things that are happening in my hair.
 
DJ: The beings. After the visit your hair has never been the same. It seems like there are more contacts with the Navy than the Air Force - why do you think that is?
 
A: Probably because of the technology that’s on those crafts, on those ships, on those carriers. That would be my guess. I don’t know. I think that we need to be very careful going forward on how we determine what’s the legitimate phenomena and what’s not a ploy to look like the phenomena. Like let’s demonstrate by having a light turn on here, and maybe it goes a little bit and turns off, and then we have a light turning on over here and we automatically – the human brain’s gonna say “Oh, did you see how quick that moved?” Well, are you sure that’s what happened? Or did we have two different objects that lights are turning on and off? What are the kinds of capabilities that are being demonstrated to us? I don’t know that we’re going to really get to the bottom of that. But I suspect that they’re interacting with the Navy because of the mission of that particular ship.
 
Deb: There’s a lot of things going on inside our ocean, that’s my opinion. I think you’re correct, there’s going to be a lot of mimicking of the phenomenon in the future.
 
DJ: There are certain characteristics I don’t think we’re equipped to mimic.
 
A: That’s right, that’s right. I agree with that. The craft that was aerial and was submersive – that was just mind-blowing, it’s beautiful. It’s absolutely beautiful, it’s stunning. Every time I hear something about it, I’m just so excited.
 
Deb: [Speculates that mermaids are  submersible ETs.]
 
A: Some of the Indigenous creation stories – when the surface of the Earth wasn’t suitable for them to be living, their brothers who live in the Earth merged, brought them, invited them in, and took them underground where they later, when the Earth was ready, they emerged back out with their brothers [inaudible].
 
Deb: I have so many other questions, we’re gonna have to do a part 2. Did you have any messages for us? What do they think about DJ?
 
DJ: This could be a sad moment.
 
A: I have to be honest and say that I haven’t meditated today. I haven’t meditated in a few days and this is – it’s very sad for me. We lost a little kitty companion, [16?] years, that he is so tiny, we’ve had him for so long he used to run around in my robe pocket. He was bottle fed and tiny and perfect and beautiful. He had many names, Boudacat, Brother Clyde, Sweet Baby Clyde. He’s just the most remarkable and I was there with him until the end and it’s been hard for our family. My children, some of my family has come so tomorrow we can have a return to the earth ceremony where we show gratitude for his physical vessel that allowed him to come here and have the experience to be our companion for so long. We have a special place where we lay it out, where we lay the body out and then it helps to separate the consciousness from the body and then it returns it to nature. We just let nature take over.

And so I guess what I’m trying to say is my mind is in a little bit of a different place and I haven’t meditated. I was really hoping I could get in a little bit of that. I don’t have any messages today except to really just love each other. Just be love. It’s hard. We all know how difficult it is to be online and to deal with people online. You all, the three of you have just been remarkable. If we could just all of us remember that there is a human being on the other end of that device and they’re receiving those words and we’re sending energy out through a different medium now to each other, and that we should be mindful of that and to just be more loving and compassionate to one another. It’s really the way to get more love in the world, is to just be that love, just be it, even when others can’t be it to you.
 
Deb: As long as you're respectful and you’re listening to other people and accepting the fact that everyone has a different opinion, that’s fine, you can have different opinions. But you don’t have to be rude, you don’t have to be personal. That’s love also. [Stupid talk about Twitter crushes.] You can love people by nurturing them, by educating them... On that note, thank you so much for sharing your love with us.
 
A: It was a pleasure, truly. This is honestly, it’s really nice to be in community and fellowship with like-minded people. I’ve spent a lot of time in what I consider the trenches, just trying to [inaudible] with my story and I can get pretty battered and bruised that way and this has just been like salve.
 
Deb: Like I said, we’re all very open-minded. We let people have their different opinions… We need to support experiencers.
 
A: We also need to be aware that experiencers don’t just have the psychological and emotional toll of understanding their contact experience, they also have a body burden that we’re probably going to see. Like it’s going to affect their body in some kind of way and we should be mindful of that. If they don’t agree with the experiencer, we should be there to just give all the kinds of support to each other. That’s all I wanted to say. There’s all kinds of [inaudible] we need to be mindful of.

Apr 20, 2022 Higher Density Beings of Light channeling (her YouTube channel)

Full video title:
Higher Density Beings of Light: Message to Humanity (as channeled in writing by Añjali) 14 Apr 2022

Description:
Thank you for being here today. The following video is a transcription of a written channeled message from higher beings of light, received on April 14, 2022. This is but a single message, and is not meant to be all encompassing. Each person, quite literally everyone, ought to meditate/pray with the sincere intention being to seek understanding of the nature of their own existence, their relationship with the world in which they find themselves, and the deeper nature of consciousness. Thank you for being a part of my journey of contact and conscious communication with higher density beings...
May the path before you be paved in peace. Mindfully yours, Añjali

Opening card:
this is a transcription of a written channeled message received from higher density beings of light on April 14th, 2022
thank you for being here
añjali

Peace be upon you, my brothers and sisters on this our abundant and fruitful Gaia. This is Anjali. Many blessings. I am here today to deliver a message on behalf of higher density beings of light who have a message for humanity. May this find you well. May this find you centered. May this find you at peace.

Humanity, this message comes on light and love, given to you as a gift of creator who creates all. A splintering of light… creation. Perfect harmony spreads across darkness to illuminate infinitely, growing in perfect centered intention, in being, in the act of discovering and knowing being. Being from non-being. May those among you who already take pause to consider what is being said.

Come, you have ears to hear. Come, you have eyes to see. Come, within you is the choice to hear, to see, to know. Hear what is being taught and listen beyond. It lies within. The without. The line of perception between who you are and who you perceive others to be. Illusion, distortion. Distortion of your own chosen manifested creation. You may choose the light that is perfect creation, perfect being, centered. Centered creation, centered being. You may choose not to dream the dream that binds you to illusion of separation. Separation from the infinite light of creation. You may awaken when you choose. You may leave the darkness of the illusion. You choose to sleep and believe the dream. You may awaken and see the illusion. You may see and remove the illusion of separation. You may remove the illusion of separation and set yourself free. You choose to dream the illusion, which is your own imprisonment.

You are architect. You are constructor. You are brick, mortar, and steel of prison. You are prisoner. You are warden of imprisonment. You are key in hand of remover, of illusion. You are seed and cultivator of illusion of separation. You choose imprisonment. You choose to sleep and believe the dream. You choose without, with unseeing eyes. You forget within the seeing eye that knows infinite light. You choose to forget within. You choose to dream without.
​
You are the eye. You are one with the all that sees. You are one with infinite light. You need not dream the illusion of darkness that comes with imprisonment and separation. You choose to sleep and believe the dream. Awaken, warden. Awaken, constructor. Awaken key in hand. Set prisoner free. Remember within and see. Remember within and see. See. 

​May 21, 2022 Artisan Tony interviews Anjali

[with Alexei Novitzky "Alyosha"]
​
ArtisanTony: … If you want to start Anjali, just tell us a little bit about you.

Anjali: Oh goodness, Tony, I just don't even know where to begin. There are different I would say chapters of my life and this is certainly a new chapter. And I prefer this chapter. And others everything before it just continues to recede and recede and recede and become less important, and less a part of my present consciousness.

So I really, without invoking any kind of religious significance here, I feel almost born again. Like I have this new life now. Like it's all new and everything before was something different, something else. And I'm grappling with that in my daily life, and my daily relationships, and the things that that I prioritize and find the most important are not always in sync with the things that other people find important, the who… I really don't know exactly where to go, I'm walking a different path today.
 
AT: What do you think of the current situation, current atmosphere of what's going on with the UAP thing the whole congressional hearings…

Anjali: Well I think that mostly the congressional hearings are - without having seen a single minute of them, I would suspect that they're good theatre. The decision has probably already been made on the outcome and this is just a process of getting the hearts and minds of the American people more in line with where US interests broadly lie. Does that make sense? … Having the conversation is an important move, without ridiculing those who are trying to have it. So yes I think it gives legitimacy to a lot of experiencers who have seen craft, who claim to have been inside them, claim to have seen beings. There are a lot of claims that are hidden under the broad umbrella of UAP and I think that we need to recognize that, recognize that it's an umbrella of discussion. It's not the end goal.
 
AT: What do you think of the navy pilot videos, I guess those were released in 2017?

Anjali: Oh I have no idea. I wasn't there. But the reactions of the pilots seemed very legitimate. If they were a part of any kind of conspiracy to lead the public in any specific way, they're the best actors I've ever seen and they deserve an oscar. It seemed like they were having a really legitimate experience and I think that they were encountering something that they were unfamiliar with in the skies, and that should give us all pause to say that these people are experts on what they may encounter in the sky. And when they see something that blows their minds, it should be blowing everyone's. That's how I feel about that.
 
AT: I was going to ask Anjali with your experience in the – Anjali’s experience in the intelligence field, did you ever come across anything I know you can't speak of classified projects but is there anything you can - any breadcrumbs you can drop, anything to shed light on that as far as them maybe being our own technology?

Anjali: No, there's nothing that I can say about that. Intelligence is highly compartmentalized and when you get onto your j-wix you only have access to what could be relevant to your areas of responsibility, and that's it. You literally can't even get to anything else, all right. So it's a need to know basis, and I wasn't working things that I needed to know, even at the pentagon supporting the assistant secretary of defense and the office of the secretary of defense, I didn't need to know anything about UAPs or UFOs. But I think I I tend to agree with Alyosha that we have we have multiple things that are going on here. We don't just have one phenomena or craft of unknown origin. We definitely have been playing with technology since the first time that we found it. And of course we would, it doesn't make sense that we wouldn't. And it doesn't make sense that other countries who have also found technology wouldn't be trying to backwards-engineer that, or even try to get a craft that they've recovered working. It all makes sense that they would try to do that. And then we have where the crafts came from in the first place, and we have a variety of crafts that have been presented to us.

So it appears that some of them are conscious crafts themselves. I have had information from the beings that I have passed on, and so you may have already heard it - that in order to make the crafts work that we have recovered, we have to have a type of biotechnology that can hold a consciousness. And this biotechnology has to have a neural network that can literally, somehow, and I don't understand but I see like fingers okay - it doesn't mean it's fingers, this is just how I understand what I see okay - just like fingers going into grooves in the neural network of biotechnology and the craft, they connect. And when they do that, the consciousness of the being is able to move into the craft. And so what we have is a pilot who is consciously moving a craft. And that doesn't mean that they're the only one in it, okay, there could be other beings in the craft physically in the craft with them. And so we have to be aware of that. That doesn't mean it's just one. It's just that that's how you pilot it. And for me that was a huge breakthrough that I had, a huge breakthrough for me.
 
AT: Was this information given to you like channeling? Or did you see it?

Anjali: Well I don't really understand the difference very well anymore for me, okay, other than I would say that because it's just becoming easier and easier, the line, and that doesn't mean like the line between me and them is blurring. It's just the method of communication is blurring okay. So it's becoming more fluid. And so I haven't done a full channel in which another being comes into my body and speaks through me, and I'm like receded somewhere. I've never had an experience like that. And for me, I've always thought that that's what channeling was. And so that's why when people say do you channel, I say, oh no I don't channel. But maybe the line isn't so clear all the time.
 
Alyosha: Do you mean more of like a download experience?

Anjali: That's how it began for me, was a strict download experience where I would see their face or I would see them oriented in the room and they would send me like an image and upon me just observing it, just me observing it, having acknowledged that it's there, I receive all this kind of information that I have to kind of decode the information. Because it's not like I'm reading an english text. It's so difficult to explain, I don't even know how to do it. But download is definitely what I have always said. Now it's not that it's not the same, but it's like a deeper thing now where I don't always recognize that I've had a download. And that's why I'm saying the line is a little blurrier today with more constant communication, and kind of nurturing those relationships, and that that perspective I think it has just it's made things a little bit blurrier.

Alyosha: … It has to do with like harmonic resonance. So if you're sitting quiet, your brain's quiet, everything's quiet, person next to you has a powerful thought, well it'll ring through your conscious field, basically, that's what I'm getting at.

Anjali: And it's like a muscle also, that the more that you exercise it, the more that you work it, you get that muscle memory and it just becomes a second nature. And so you can even practice picking up on this, the harmonic resonance of other people, you can practice that and then you'll start receiving things. And you just have to be aware that you're receiving things. And see that's the most difficult part for people. It isn't the receiving, it's the awareness of receiving. We tend to, when we initially begin receiving conscious communication we tend to attribute the origin of the information as ourselves. And it's a mistake because it isn't. We're receiving external information. And part of conscious awareness is understanding the difference between where the boundary of your biotechnology having an individual experience begins and ends and merges, and can communicate with others. And so really it's like an awareness of self as an individual experience, and a connection to all energy, where there is no difference between Artisan and Alyosha and Anjali, that we truly have this one energy that's flowing through us. And the more aware we are of that, the more that energy begins to coalesce and the consciousness begins to coalesce and we begin communicating with one another in a really fluid way. It can happen.
 
AT: …and I was curious to see what you thought about Oumuamua and if you had any other communications outside of human communications.

Anjali: Not regarding that, no. I left that conversation to Avi [Loeb] to have with other experts, and so I haven't really put any thought into that or asked the beings to communicate anything to me. I trust that that he has some data, that I probably wouldn't understand if I heard it, to support his conclusions and I think that all great first steps that we take in science begin with someone going out on a limb and saying something that sounds absolutely wild to everyone else in the field, and they're ostracized and pushed aside. We've seen it time and again. So I tend to listen to what's being said on the fringe, as long as you're not too out of bounds. I want to listen to hear what the fringe is saying, and if there's any evidence anywhere else, being echoed in small ways, it's just not being threaded back to that. And I think sometimes we have that data and sometimes we don't. And then it just becomes a kooky idea. And so like I said, I just leave it to Avi to and his peers to go through that data.
 
AT: Did you know of Lue Elizondo before like 2014 or 15?

Anjali: No. In fact didn't he come out in 17? Wasn't that the big -? So no, I didn't. And 2017 was a big blur for me, it was a tough year. I spent I think two-thirds of the year in the hospital. It was a very very tough year, so didn't do a lot of tv watching that year.
 
AT: Was that the first year you had contact with the -?

Anjali: It was. Well it wasn't actually the first year that I had contact, but in this new phase I would say - yes it did, it began at the end of that year. Yes, end of 2017. So I didn't really know about Lue until a couple of years in, because I just wasn't paying attention to the news anymore. They told me to put away human affairs and to meditate and to grow my consciousness, so that's what I focused on doing.
 
Alyosha: … the timing there was the end of 2018 I think, was when I came back from the camper which I was there for nine months or so.

Anjali: Okay that's funny because in 2018 was of course my big experience in the Mojave mountain tunnel, and then in 2019 was when we made the decision to move into an RV and go out into the California wilderness and have a new experience. And it was the best decision I had ever made in my life, it really is, it really is. I couldn't have made a better decision for myself, and I knew it. Because every other option and decision that we could have made - because we were kind of at an intersection where we could have really done anything, - and that was what we decided to do, was to unplug.

It was wonderful for me, and I agree with you. There are a lot of times when I'm dealing with things that probably don't even matter, but at the moment I'm caught up in them. Usually on something that is being said about me on social media and I read it and I get all caught up and emotionally tangled. And when I start meditating it's much easier to return to like a state of balance for me. When I remember to go back to the things that I learned for that year and a half in the desert... I have a small scarf from Oman - it's a long story so don't even worry about it - but I use that as like my trigger object for returning to that place. And it really helps. It really helps.
 
AT: …Can people actually do what they are doing during those sort of [CE5] exercises where they're summoning beings and craft and that kind of thing, what do you think about that whole thing?

Anjali: Well I think that first, the word summoning is a problem for me because - and maybe this is my pre-conceived notion here - but it feels like a like a position of authority over - like master servant. You summon, you've summoned something that serves you and I don't - so I have a problem with that word. I think that what happens there is that people who have been priming their consciousness by repeatedly going through these exercises can get to a place where they can communicate with beings who are also looking to communicate with humans here on earth. So yes, I believe that that can happen. I would say that it's more of a mutual interpersonal communication than it is a summoning.
 
AT: Are these beings, are they in tune with our consciousness that if we just tune in to that, how does that work? Are they always listening?

Anjali: Yeah that's my understanding. I mean sometimes when I am communicating with them, I'll ask them: did this or did you see that? and sometimes they'll say: well no, I didn't see that or I didn't know that. And I will actually ask them to go out - and I don't know mechanisms, I'm not a scientist and I'll say this over and over, and I don't read physics or quantum physics or whatever quantum mechanics, and I'm not trying to sound silly, it's just that I have so much respect for that field that I don't even want to try to pretend like I know what I'm talking about and use their terms, so I'll just use my very layman terms and say that I think that there is a mechanism that we are not scientifically able to completely describe yet, that happens when we decide to turn our consciousness outward instead of keeping it inward. And because it's this – like, unless you have to go inward and almost burn the ego before it turns outward and receives information. And I don't know how that relationship happens. So I have asked them previously if they will go and find the answer, or go and view what happened. And they'll come back afterwards and we can communicate about it.

AT: [re using lasers to summon aliens]

Anjali: Okay see we're not talking about the same thing then. I guess what I'm talking about is meditating with the intention of communicating with higher beings who have positive knowledge and support that they would like to offer to us, while respecting our right to have this experience. And so I have very specific verbiage that I use while meditating if I want to communicate with higher beings. I would never try to use lasers or anything like that. In fact you don't even know who you're attracting at that point. If you are truly attracting crafts with conscious beings in them, and all you're doing is setting intention to just contact people, for all it could be opportunists that you're contacting. And I'm not trying to inject fear into the situation. I just think that you do have to be careful and you have to be mindful about your experience. From my understanding, the beings aren't asking humanity to grab a – what are they called - a laser and do this to physically attract to other beings. They're asking us to sit down and re-center our consciousness, to balance ourselves so that we can grow our mind, our body, our spirit, and have a conscious communication experience with beings who are trying to communicate with us. And they’re trying to prepare our consciousness for something that is coming down the road. And they want humanity in general, they want the collective consciousness of humanity to raise in its vibration so that more of us will choose to transcend into the next density of light consciousness together.
 
AT: …Are the beings that were they here before earth, us humans, do they have domains? do they have physical domains here? is the mountain, is that a physical domain or just a - what I mean? That just happens to be a location –

Anjali: That's the big question, isn't it. That's why the expedition, that's why everything, is –
 
AT: But there seems to be a lot of secrecy about the movements in the water and how they what I mean there seems to be almost more secrecy about those craft than the craft that the navy pilots are seeing does that make sense?

Anjali: Absolutely. I would say that, just my inkling would be - that's a professional term, just kidding - my inkling is that perhaps there is intel or at least a collection that's going on through specific resources that we have. That's what that sounds like, when he says: I can't talk about that. It's different than saying: I don't know anything about that, I haven't heard anything about that, no we're not collecting until. “I can't talk about that” - there's a whole - it speaks volumes and so you can read between the lines. It doesn't mean that there is anything, but it certainly means that we have we have assets that are looking at that question.
 
AT: … if we have sensors around the world that sense tsunamis, it would be easy to use those same locations for other sensors [USOs].

Anjali: Right. So here I'm going to flip the conversation just a wee bit, back to something –

AT: …Let me ask you one more question Anjali about that, it was related to physical domain, like, so the beings don’t give any kind of hints or talk about other beings that may be on earth and where they hang out, what I mean? They don’t do that?

Anjali: I didn't say that. I didn't say they don’t say that. They've explained a lot of things that are rather interesting. The Council that has explained that it is basically a team whose numbers seem to fluctuate based on what point our cycle is in. Not only one specific segment of the cycle of birth and rebirth, but from the beginning to the end of a cycle of birth and rebirth. There are specific points that the members of the council have different roles that they play. And I will say that at the beginning I wasn't understanding some of the information in my downloads, okay, and I tried to make it clearer to everyone that, hey, if there's anything here later that I have to come back and correct, it's not the fault of the beings, it's this meat brain that everything has to filter through. That I have an entire lifetime of experiences that have tainted this brain and then there's all these biochemicals in there, and I have to then try to take the information that I've received and filter it through that so that I can put it into words and communicate it.

And I misunderstood that there were four who were returning from the council who basically were sick of the experiment. What it seems to be is that they're very disappointed, they're very disappointed with the outcome of this particular cycle. There's nothing about them that's coming to undo humanity, not in the council, okay. I don't know anything about other things. So there are the seven members, who I wouldn't say they claim domain, but they certainly, they claimed the right to guard this world and this creation and everyone's right to have their experience and to learn what they need to learn to grow their consciousness, and the freedom to make that choice, whether they want to remain in a sensory biotechnology to continue consciousness growth, or if they want to move on to the next density, which I'm not 100% clear about what that looks like, okay. So I don't want to mislead anyone. I really - I have ideas but I can't speak with a lot of confidence on it.

But they say that - the Four, their responsibility is the end of the cycle, they come back at the end of the cycle and what they do is - this is going to sound crazy and I realize that - but what they're saying is [laughter]… like everybody says: oh my god, you're just, you're crazy. I'm like, hey, look, I'm just trying to figure out – I’m just going gonna tell you what they're saying and I'm going to do my best to try to understand it myself, and to use what I can to grow and to let the rest of it go, to be honest with you. If it's not useful to me, personally, I let it go. And I guess that out of anything that I ever say that's from me, or that I'm saying is from the beings, okay, that I'm repeating from them, my only suggestion to you is take what you like and leave the rest. That's it. It's totally up to you. You don't even have to hear it, if you don't want to. It's all up to you, it's your choice and that's truly how I feel.

Sometimes I have this desire for more to - there are some members of the council who have almost this anxiety, okay. They're positively-oriented beings and they have almost this anxiety about the state of how many in this cycle are ready and willing to transcend. Because it has something to do with the future of creating and coalescing of consciousness, and what kind of knowledge and wisdom they bring into it. And it takes thousands of years for this cycle, and they're saying that a lot are either choosing to remain, or just are not awake. And so we have such a low percentage - I want to quantify everything because I've got this meat brain on - and they're just saying that there's just such a low percentage of humanity, of the consciousnesses in this biotechnology that are choosing to transcend.

And so one of the reasons they're saying that my consciousness came was to remind people that they have a choice, to remind people that they're sleeping and that they can choose to awaken. And part of the struggle is struggling to wake up. A lot of people want me to give them like a cookbook or standard operating procedures, What's your SOP for waking up? and I'm like holy cow, are you kidding me? I had like 50 years of struggle to get to the place where I was ready for the kind of contact that I had, and where my consciousness was able to remember on a daily basis what was happening in my life regarding the phenomena. Because it can be very overwhelming and you can compartmentalize it in your brain, and every once in a while it'll peek out and you go: oh my god . And I found that I was telling my family over and over again about my experience because I would forget in between. And every time I was sitting them down and saying like, “Okay guys, I have something really serious to tell you and I realize you're probably going to think I'm crazy, but this is very important because I learned something and I need you to hear this message, I need to tell you what happened and then tell you what they told me.” And they would let me go through it, and then they'd say, “yeah I know, you've told us several times.” And then I would remember for a while, and then I would forget.

And so in 2020 I began saying on a daily, weekly, as often as I thought of it, I would just turn to my daughter and say: “I went inside of a tunnel in a mountain and I saw five beings who were standing there, beings from somewhere else, and I went with them. And I saw an eight-foot being, that was the lavender being that came to us at our home. This is what happened.” And she would say, “Yes, I know.” And that's how I started remembering, because it was so overwhelming for my consciousness. And then I began meditating on it and got deeper and deeper into it. And it was in 2021 that I made the first connection between my having been inside a craft, which is where I wanted to go back to when I was a child, inside of a physical craft that other people witnessed who are still living - I have two people, one of which has agreed to still be interviewed and I'm hoping that the other will agree to be interviewed - who were there that day, who remember - they were older, it was my mother and a another young woman who was living in the house. And they both remember the craft, remember the details of that evening, and both have realized that I wasn't present with them outside, and I was the only one missing. And it was because I was inside the craft. I wasn't really missing, I was just somewhere else.

And what I can tell you is that the beings inside that craft - they were physical, they were in physical biotechnology just like we are, just like we are. So there was a physicality but even in my mind's eye, as I remember that day, there is almost like - and it feels very much like when I walked from the tunnel into the ET base, okay. There was no physical difference, I mean it was extremely fluid, okay. There was nothing that - it was just rock and then it was the physical base, but that there was like - the permeates in my mind's eye, the same kind of feeling of like this something that was maybe gone through. I don't have a better way to explain it, but it's almost like looking through a bubble of water, a drop of water on your window. If you look through it how everything's a little weird. It's almost like looking through that and then seeing that on the other side.
AT: Almost like a field of something.

Anjali: Yes, that wasn't really - I don't think it was really physically there, but in my mind's eye I see it. Does that make sense? I don't know if it does.

Alyosha: …I don't know if you guys have seen stargate but they basically have like a fluid barrier and you just walk right through and everything's the same.

Anjali: Okay, well that's kind of what it’s like in my eye, but the funny thing is, is I don't remember it physically being there when I'm walking, I've described it like when I was there, walking from the tunnel into the base, and how the base was absolutely pristine, which if you think about that - if you haven't been into the Mojave desert you may not know that the sand has a way of getting in everywhere. It's like the desert just wants to swallow you and it begins as soon as you stop moving. And so I remember specifically that there wasn't any sand in the base, it was pristine and that's odd, that's odd. But other than that when I was physically walking through, there wasn't any viscosity that I saw, but in my mind's eye I see it. And that's really odd. And I also see it in the craft that I'm in, in 1976, that was over our home.

AT: [re. Comments asking for proof] … How would you even provide proof for something like that? When I started meditating years and years ago, because I had a little experience when I was 12 and I started looking outside my typical… the more meditation I did, the more I experienced different things. Whatever they were, hallucinations or whatever you want to call them, but how can I prove that happened? [Anjali’s alarm goes off] If I have an experience in the middle of the night because I meditated a few hours earlier, how do I record, how do I prove that?...

Anjali: I would love to hear it.

AT: I'm kind of answering a comment, “Well when are we going to see…?” … [Comment on-screen: “she said the beings were physical”] My impression of what you said Anjali, about them being physical, was that they were assuming a physical body in order to -?

Anjali: That’s right, I have actually found that - and I'm working on a more fulfilled pyramid, which is why I haven't shared it publicly, but it is actually like a pyramidal organization of the groups of beings that have communicated. It took me a little bit of time to recognize that they weren't all from the same source, that I wasn't always speaking to the Council. That took me some time. And once I realized that I wasn't always speaking to the Council, then our communication became a lot more fruitful, I guess I would say. And so I'm working on that scale, essentially, that shows who the groups are and who their target seems to be, okay, like who are they, who is their message targeted at, okay, and then what their message is and oh, there's a fourth section [pondering], it's something more actionable but it’s actually, it's probably going to be so spot on that it's going to be pretty surprising to people. I'm really excited and I'm hoping to have it done. I'm going to the UFO symposium that's coming up, the UFO disclosure symposium, and I have absolutely nothing to do with that, I'm just general audience, but I know Alyosha will be there and I don't know who all else will be there, but I hope to see other people that I know there, so in person I can share this with them.

AT: Is this the UAP society event or are you talking about the other one I've heard about?

Anjali: the UFO disclosure symposium in Vernal, Utah. I'm sure Alyosha could speak much more… UFO Megacon, it’s part of the same symposium.
 
AT: [re. Lue Elizondo breadcrumbs] … and then I hear people talk about cycles, you talked about cycles earlier. It seems to me like there may be a side of this that we don't want to teach, have curriculums changed in early childhood education to teach. Is there going to be an end of this life cycle that we should be aware of? is that the thing that needs to be secret?

Anjali: Are you asking me? [yeah] I was afraid you were asking me.

AT: You were talking about a thousand year cycle earlier and I don't know, I see this, I hear this theme that's rushing through this whole thing. You've got 12,000 year cycles, 26,000 year cycles… it seems like there's a behind the scenes theme that people don't really want to talk about and Lue Elizondo calls “somber”. And I may be misconnecting that. I'm just curious.

Anjali: I don’t think you’re misconnecting anything and I have been, as I've been very vocal about it, about connecting consciousness to the phenomena, connecting consciousness to ufos and uaps, consciousness to my experience and consciousness growth, just cycles. They have been super clear, super clear, that we have this convergence of cycles that are changing simultaneously, and it's doing something much more intense to the earth, and the consciousness of the earth, and the consciousness of humanity.
And so I have the Council – the Council is the one that's saying that the end of this cycle is coming, the end of the cycle of birth and rebirth, and it's time for humanity to wake up and to remember who it is, to recognize itself, and to begin its consciousness growth, or it's just going to be slung right back into another third density cycle.

AT: What does it actually mean though, like at the end of the cycle what happens physically to traffic lights and trees and buildings? or is it just a spiritual thing?

Anjali: I don't think so. Because they have also said that, simultaneously, there is an earth cycle and a sun cycle that is happening. Well they have called it an earth cycle but they've said that the sun will cleanse the earth for the beginning of a new cycle. It's going to grow in its own density, its own consciousness, and it will no longer be compatible for third density experience in this biotechnology for some time. That the earth is going to go through a change, that the surface of the planet is not going to be compatible for this biotechnology. And so if you want to stay in the third density cycle - I can't tell you the mechanism of how any of this works okay, I'm using the same brain that you guys have here, the same kind of technology here. They’re just saying that those who choose - those who remain sleeping, or those who awaken and want to stay in the third density sensory learning experience, they will simply begin a life somewhere else and they will have no memory of any of this. They’ll just be gone.

AT: So we may have some sort of extinction level event from the sun through solar flares or something like that?

Anjali: My understanding of what I see, they show me different things. One of the things they show me is like I see very high mountains and I see water, like oceans just rushing up and then coming in between them and like freezing. They like freeze into in position, and then there's other water that comes in and will turn - like the Black Hills where I'm at right now, they'll just wash it all out and it'll look like, it'll just be sand and rock. That kind of thing is what I'm seeing. I'm just seeing like tumultuous - they're showing like tumultuous - the surface of the planet will get tumultuous and obviously somewhere it's going to get very cold, because they're showing that freezing.
 
AT: [re. Magnetic pole shift] we've got what almost a two percent shift … I guess this is where science and consciousness overlaps a little bit where it's almost like it's set up so that the people who understand the physical problems of the earth - solar flares and magnetic pole changes - aren't the same people who are experiencing the spiritual side. Isn't that kind of odd? it just occurred to me. It's almost like we need super people like Alyosha that know both sides.

Anjali: I think that's part of the awakening, that's part of our journey moving towards a more unified collective consciousness awareness of our collectivity. That's part of the journey is to move from science into seeing that consciousness isn't the antithesis of science, they're not juxtaposed, we just don't have the language and the knowledge yet to see that what we are experiencing can be explained. We just don't know how to do. I think that it's really important for everyone who's watching this to remember that it's not important that there are beings who are saying that there's some ELE coming and that we're coming to the end of a cycle. I think that the most important thing that any of the beings are saying is that we all come from the same source of consciousness, and what we're doing right now is having a growth experience that we can't understand the mechanisms behind. They are constantly reminding me of something they said in the base that day, which is “what you think is going on isn't what's really going on.”

I've asked them “is this a simulation?” and they'll say: “well, not in the way that you think.” But they don't say no. They'll just say it's beyond your ability for us to explain this to you and you understand. What we're dealing with is so far beyond, it's so advanced. It's like just because we're having conversations with them, it doesn't mean that they're all-knowing okay and that they can give me every answer to every question that anybody has that they may ask me. In the same way that - and I don't mean that we're pets but - like we talk to our cat or our dog and we form relationships with them, and we seem to get on a wavelength with them, but that doesn't mean that they understand the mechanisms of obtaining and paying a mortgage, right. And there's no way that we can ever help our cat or dog understand that. That's how I feel about what this is and the mechanism behind it, is that they're really just saying: “there's just no way we can explain it to you.”

Alyosha: I use the analogy of: can you ever teach a worm politics?

Anjali: Right, exactly, same kind of thing… And I don't know anything about that. The beings that I communicate with, they only know what they know, and they actually acknowledge a black box which is: they don't really know how the source came to be, how the source of consciousness came to be. So I believe they are within their own system, their own closed system. Does that make sense? like if we think about this from computer levels, we have an internet that moves from computer to computer and then we can build closed systems, where they can only connect computers can only connect with each other, right, or with just their hard drive. And I feel like that's sort of what we are, we're in a closed system and they are outside of that looking in but they're within their own closed system, and somebody probably is outside of that looking in. Because the one thing that they all seem to agree on is that the reason for consciousness is basically to learn about itself and to spread, and to remove the things within consciousness that aren't helpful to the continued creation of consciousness, the continued spread of light illuminating the dark on and on and on and on. And that's what this is, I mean at its basest level, for my interpretation.

AT: I have this little crusade against people who say no free will.

Anjali: I’m not saying that.

Alyosha: [the physics of how to move through the densities of creation]

Anjali: The highest density, I guess I would say, beings that I've spoken to, they're purely light and talk about viscosity. Now that's where the viscosity was present during the experience, it's like their physical form it's like light retained within a viscous layer… This might seem like a really really silly question, but Alyosha what do you think happens if consciousness travels through what we call a black hole? what's on the other side for consciousness?

Alyosha: Another experience right, and it might even be similar to the one that you're already existing within because it would be a fractal of the now. And so I call that almost jumping shells… I think it's the single fluid that gets crunched and stretched and you can exist within different realms of that fluid.

Anjali: That's interesting because one of, again I know how crazy this is about to sound, but one of the theories that I've been tossing around regarding my experience in the Mojave mountain - like how can two things be true at once, okay? like how can I be telling you honestly that this is what happened to me in this mountain, and how can Bryan and Stacey simultaneously being be saying, and telling the truth, “no that did not happen, this is what happened.” And the only thing I can think of is the idea of decoherence, that you can have an experience one place in one timeline and then suddenly find yourself in a very similar timeline but not quite the same, where things are different than they were before. Like maybe here, here I went to Bryan and Stacey's house, we had a different kind of interaction, I was on my phone most of the time according to what he's saying, and that basically nothing happened at all, like nothing for all those hours. So if that's true, then how did I have a very physical experience where I was up and walking and doing these things and having this experience with all of these beings? and the only thing I can think of is that somehow I'm somewhere different.

Alyosha: …speculating here… maybe let's say when beings do like take people up into their craft or something like that they take you out of this this position of space time… it could be possible but I don't know.

Anjali: Yeah, same here, that's why it's just a theory. I want to give everyone the benefit of the doubt and approach everyone involved that they're telling the truth and being honest. So if they're being honest and I know I'm being honest, then something is amiss in Denmark and I don't know what it is.

AT: People expected me to ask you certain questions when you came here, and I'm supposed to cross-examine you. Well, what is the truth? and this is what I do, I give everybody the benefit of the doubt, and respect. So when you come and you say this or that, is it my responsibility to doubt that? No. It's your responsibility to seek your own truth. So when somebody gives you the truth, what is the definition of that truth? it's what they believe to be true, right? so someone in their heart could believe something to be true, and it turned out to be true to them… What I’m responding to are all these people that are expecting me to expect the truth when we haven’t even defined the truth. How am I supposed to expect the truth when it hasn’t been defined?

Alyosha: Truth is only what is true to you. That’s exactly what you're saying.

Anjali: And what I've always said, even when I was planning the expedition, I said it from the get-go, out of the gate, is if you're looking for proof the best thing that you can do is start meditating, start seeking to understand the nature of your own consciousness. And I don't mean like try for 20 minutes and when it doesn't work the first time you walk away and give up. I mean really set your intention to understand the nature of your own consciousness and seek it with good intention, with an open mind, open heart, not ego driven trying to prove or disprove, but to seek, to really go on a journey of understanding. That's where you'll find your own proof and you'll stop hounding me for it. And I don't mean to say that that people don't deserve proof of my experience in the mountain, I completely understand, I completely understand everybody's desire for proof of that. But even at the very beginning I said, if you want to have proof that these beings are real, then start meditating. And do it with a mindful openness. That's the first step. I honestly believe that.

AT: This is the way I approach this, okay, even if you are not telling your truth, how does that harm me? how is it now my responsibility to get on the internet and rage because I don't believe your truth? And so my challenge to people is to just really first calm down and start to look inside yourself and stop looking at other people. I was raised in the church and Jesus was a great person who made us realize that we don't need to be looking at the log or the splinter in other people's eyes, just go look in the mirror and inspect your own eyeballs.

Anjali: Make peace with yourself. It's a powerful thing to do, it really is. One of the things that I often go back to, that we were just talking about in a different context, is the idea of them saying “what you think is going on here isn't what's really going on.” And that gives me some room to allow that perhaps my thoughts on an interaction, an interpersonal interaction or otherwise, that basically my beginning point, may not be as informed as I think it is. And it allows me to kind of let a lot of that go, the expectation that I knew exactly what was happening at that moment. I go “Eh, I know what my eyes told me, I know what my ears told me, I can tell you what my senses told me, but I can't tell you what that person was thinking, what their intentions were, how that happened, none of those things. And so interactions in a conflict becomes less needed, less important, less a part of my life. Because I just don't need it. I just don't give it the validity that most of society wants us to. I prefer to admit that I only know one side of everything and that's my side, and even my side is distorted because I'm inside of this meat suit that gives me all of these biochemicals and all of these senses that are limited, and that I know that there's a lot more that's existing and going on outside of that.

And not meaning to exactly jump over into another area, but kind of related to that, the things existing outside of us, outside of our physical perceptions as we gain technology and we release it more into the mainstream, meaning that it's not held for the military industry but is released for consumer purchase basically, we will have the ability to see, as time goes on and we approach the end of this cycle, they're saying we'll have the ability to perceive them with new technologies and our physical senses. meaning we can alter our ability to see through the technology. So I don't know if it's going to be light spectrums, if it's going to be frequently, exactly what it's going to be that they're saying that we will be able to. And that there's this almost sing-songy thing, topsy-turvy goes the world and with it goes the illusion. And that's like almost this sing-songy, that download that I got: topsy-turvy goes the world and with it goes the illusion. It was like a year and a half ago.

And I think that – oh god I completely lost my train of thought, what did I say right before then? I'm so sorry.
 
AT: [commenter question] why do you think Vedic knowledge got lost? … Do the beings ever allude to the fact that they have a history longer than human, than us?

Anjali: Oh absolutely. Well first of all I think that we should really start rethinking what human means. Are we talking about the biotechnology that our consciousness is currently in? Are we going to identify that with so heavily that we call ourselves human? or are we having a human experience. Because consciousness is much older than our biotechnology and we may or may not have consciously evolved here with this technology. I tend to think that the mechanism for how we get here is so far beyond our ability to understand, but that us being here is very intentional. I believe that. I may not understand everything that they say but I do believe that being here is very intentional and it is for growth, and that we are - perhaps human is not the right way to talk about it. Perhaps we are - some of us, they say, are consciousnesses that took human form, that were placed in this biotechnology and have been here for a very long time, and they want to essentially find them and wake them up. They wanted to have this experience and now they want to - it's almost like “pull them out” before, whatever, the end of the cycle.

AT: The end of the cycle, are we 100 years away 50 years away what is that?
 
Anjali: They – look, they said that they felt that 2027 was the most likely year for the end of the cycle, for the end of the earth cycle, and therefore the end of this cycle as well, that they're going to be in tandem. And that they feel like that is the most likely year. And they talk about like a bowl of sand, I think I've said this before, that looking for a date is like looking for a specific color of one grain of sand in a bowl of sand, it's not that easy and things can become fluid, and our time here is so small that it's really difficult to pinpoint. To them 2027 or 2032 isn't that big of a deal.

AT: Yeah probably a few years.

Anjali: Yeah it's just, it's nothing. I mean some of these cycles of consciousness last for thousands of years and some of them last for millions of years. And so what's five years one way or the other? it's like for them it just feels imminent. So they're like, no just wake up now, just wake up now. Because it's so close.

Alyosha: Did you hear where'd you get those two numbers the 27 and 32?

Anjali: Well I just said 32 - just a generic example. 27 was the date that they said they felt was the most likely, that either things are going to start turning for the worst with our with our climate, or that's the year that the earth cycle and birth and rebirth cycle ends… Whitley Strieber has talked about 2029 as well.
 
AT: … I keep hearing that we've already had disclosure but I can't put my finger on when it happened. What was the information and when did that happen?

Anjali: Was disclosure the release of the of the Nimitz? Was that what that was? Was that disclosure?

AT: If the government's saying they don't know what it is then how can that be disclosure? to me disclosure comes with some sort of data, information.

Anjali: That's right. I agree with that, I see where you're going.

AT: Just words, to me, isn’t [disclosure]. I think I made Lue Elizondo mad at me for saying that I didn't understand what disclosure had been taking place.

Alyosha: … We've had technologies since like the 70s and whatnot, that craft have been recovered, that there's been interaction with beings. I mean it comes down to like are you willing to believe? I think everything's already out there.

AT: No it's not - I don't like the word believe.

Alyosha: Are you willing to open your mind and accept -?

AT: Accept what?

Alyosha: Accept something other than what you've been told.

AT: But what is it? All I’m asking you is what is it that’s been disclosed?

Alyosha: That UAP are real.

AT: They’re real what?

Alyosha: What are you waiting for?

AT: We just talked about how they could be man-made or they could be off[world].

Alyosha: You're waiting for the government to tell you what to think?

AT: No I'm not, no I'm not. I don't have any faith that the government's - that's my point really, is that we haven't had disclosure and the government certainly isn't going to be the one to provide it.

Alyosha: I think that there's people that have been telling their neighbors what they've seen and experienced their entire lives, and that disclosure has happened. And it comes down to being able to accept what people tell you and trusting your neighbor.

Anjali: That's right. I can agree with that. I have perhaps had one of the craziest experiences, not only with personally by being in the Mojave mountain base, but then the route that the beings have taken me, all the way to the Lincoln Memorial, to Bryan and Stacey coming out. And I can just assure everyone - and they won't believe me, those who are ready will and those who aren't won't - but this happened to me. I've never heard of any kind of drug that can be given that I would be walking around talking on my phone and texting while I'm having this immersive, deeply immersive experience. I mean this is what people want me to believe, they want me to believe that I was acting completely normal other than being intoxicated and having an experience where I was in a tunnel with these ETs. And it's impossible, it's just absolutely impossible that that is what happened. My experience was: I went into a physical tunnel and I met beings who were in physical form who corrected me on the word “species” said “race”. He didn't want me to use the word species, he wanted me to know that we were just a different race.

AT: …I hate the word believe. I believe Anjali is telling the truth, whatever her truth is, right. I wouldn't be doing these interviews if I didn't think they were real, okay. But let's be real, okay. If we're going to say that we've had disclosure, we have to actually define that. We have to redefine the word… I don't know any more now than I thought before. I thought they were real before, I think they're real now, and the two 2017 [videos] didn't provide any more information for me. It's not that I don't think they're real, don't get me wrong. I think I'm the most misunderstood person on the internet. [Anjali laughs] Does that make sense to you, Anjali?

Anjali: Yes.

AT: I think if we don't keep asking for more, then we just have to accept whatever - Let's say there are disinformation people, I don't know of any, I'm not claiming anybody is a disinformation agent, whatever that term is they use on the internet, but if they do exist, now is the perfect climate to tell people: this is what the truth is. And we're just supposed to believe it because there has been disclosure already.

Alyosha: I think disclosure happens when everyone looks inward. It’s that simple. By looking outward you're going to only ever see what the government shows you and you're going to be caught in a fractal of delusion, and you're always going to be looking outward and you're disconnected from the greater flow. So real disclosure happens when everyone looks inward.

AT: See, that's why I said before 2017 I already thought they were real because I had my experience when I was 12 years old, so my entire life I’ve thought they were real and so I expected more out of 2017, that's all I'm saying. But it may be that we can't know more, or that we shouldn't know more. Because if I find out that the world is going to end - I don't want to teach my children that. I don't want to teach my children that the world is going to end.

Alyosha: …The more outward one in general looks, the more into the delusion they look.

Anjali: Absolutely.

Alyosha: So the more outward people look for answers, the less likely they'll find them.

Anjali: I think it was sometime last year the beings went through a phase where they were telling everyone to raise their conscious awareness, to practice conscious communication, to meditate, to turn inward, to be silent, to be still, and they would say things like “this is real disclosure, this is the real disclosure.” It was the meditating and the growing of the conscious awareness to a point where you're able to have conscious contact with beings, who I have a feeling - and I hate saying that - that we may be able to physically perceive them with our eyes, not just consciously as the magnetic fields of our earth changes, as the magnetic resonance of the earth changes, as the sun brings - as our atmosphere is collapsing, different kinds of cosmic radiation and sun radiation is entering the earth and going through the earth and through us, and it's going to have an effect. And I believe that at the end, when they say that the illusion will end, that the veil will lift and the illusion will end, I feel like that means that we will see them with this equipment [eyes]. I think.

Alyosha: I don't want to speak for Lue, Mr Elizondo, but one of the points he has been trying to drive home is: go home and love your family. He’s been saying that left and right. What about the nuts and bolts? And it’s like: “go love your family.”

Anjali: That’s a little [grimaces] ewwwww. [laughs] Scary, isn't it?

Alyosha: That's kind of what he's hinting towards, is like become one with yourself, love your family.

AT: I'm not disparaging Lue, I love the guy, okay, he's my kind of guy, okay, we're both gun guys, all this kinda – right, he's my kind of guy. I'm just saying that let's at some point we're going to have to start almost redefining terms…

Alyosha: [thinks Western world needs Avi Loeb & science to “shift that American mind one step closer”]

AT: … I guess my curiosity is getting me in trouble all the time. So my curiosity is saying: don't say that was disclosure if it's still possible that they could be ours, right? because what they're alluding to is that they're real - they’re ET or other beings, they're non-human. That's what they're alluding to.

Alyosha: [thinks John Searl’s magic doohickey is a “real thing”]

AT: All I know is that there seems to be this gap in technology. I grew up watching the moon landing and then I say, okay so we've had a few spaceships flying around since then. It seems like we had incremental releases of technology up to a certain point and we haven't had any real incremental releases, it's almost like you want to ask “what has been going on for 50 years?”

Anjali: Tech development, that's what's been going on for 50 years.

AT: you mean computer tech or AI artificial intelligence, that kind of stuff?

Anjali: I mean in relation to the subject of our discussion, we've just been developing tech probably doing a lot of exploring of the fringe of technological possibilities and scientific discoveries that they will probably heavily protect. And I think that that's what you're talking about, tony, is that you just want to know everything. You want to know what they're doing now. You want them to tell you about the craft that they re-engineered, not just the ones that they can't. I understand the disclosure you’re looking for.

AT: That’s my definition of disclosure.

Anjali: Anything that's a threat to national security is going to be really tough.

AT: …they'll release videos right and then a few as the months go by you'll see interviews with pilots or people that were looking at scopes that said they went from space to sea level in two seconds or whatever.
Anjali: Right, right. I've seen some of that those videos, it’s pretty amazing.

AT: Oh you have? That’s kinda cool. Oh you mean - I thought you meant you've seen the actual - like something that we aren't supposed to see.

Anjali: Oh I don't know, I guess I wouldn't know.

AT: I keep I keep thinking about your intelligence background and I keep thinking, oh there's something juicy there.

Alyosha: … people that want to know will know. People that want to stay in fractals of delusion will stay in fractals of delusion. Like that's the way I see it, that's why I say disclosure happens when everyone looks inward, because as long as you keep looking outward you're going to be blinded by the media or what you think you're supposed to be living up to.

Anjali: When I was out in DC I couldn't stand watching the news, I couldn't read a newspaper, I couldn't listen to a news program, because it was all BS and it didn't align with what I knew was really going on. And it was so disconcerting that I just thought, well the news is just complete trash. And then I forgot that for a little while and got pulled back into it for about a year, and then pulled myself right back out, thinking “oh you've got to remember.”

Alyosha: [endorses Tucker Carlson]

Anjali: [the media] You’re not going to hear what's actually going on in the world… and that intelligence agencies have been behind the inception of more than one social media platform that people use. So yeah, so I'll say that. They actually created it so that they could watch what people [say?]… if you can witness the conversation then you can influence and control it.

AT: Anjali, do you have any great wisdom to impart on us before we go?

Anjali: I'm nobody's guru, I'm just a person who's trying to figure out what's going on.

AT: That's funny you say that, because I've heard people accuse you of trying to start a cult.

Anjali: [scoffs] It’s so silly. I know, and here I am living out in the middle of nowhere. It’s so silly.

AT: Inviting all those people to your house.

Anjali: Well, I invite both of you, my home is open.

AT: I meant like a horde of people, your cult members.

Anjali: I would just say that my only advice is to remember that you are here for a reason, that each of us chose this particular experience, at this time, to be here. And so I would challenge everyone on a daily basis, as they're running into obstacles or having great successes, you can ask yourself “why is this happening right now? what opportunity does this give me to learn something new? how can I grow as an individual and as a consciousness by this experience that's happening to me today right now?” And to be very mindful of that, of being present and recognizing the things that are happening in your life and what they may mean or what they could possibly mean, what opportunity do they present for you. I find that when I am mindful and deliberate about being present and making decisions and showing gratitude - I have like this trifecta that comes together pretty nicely for me, for me personally, this is my road and my journey.

But when I'm mindful about trying to learn about my own journey and the things that are happening to me, and happening around me and with me, and what my thoughts are with those things, and how I'm reacting - every moment is an opportunity to learn about yourself and to grow and to learn about other people, and in that way, when you start doing that, you start recognizing other things as people, consciousnesses that deserve their right to experience unfettered. Like our pets like the animals of the earth, like the earth itself. you just start - it's a different mindset and I would say that if you are interested in that mindset, and you're having trouble getting there, just kind of fake it until you make it. Every day wake up and show gratitude for the sun that comes up, thank the food that you have, show gratitude for what other people are perhaps doing for you in your life, and you and you express that to them. It's a flow and you have to exercise it and get into it, and once you do it can be pretty powerful in your life. That's what I have found for myself and I challenge everybody to start there maybe. [shrugs] I dunno.

AT: Now you're my guru. I can't add to that, to be honest with you. I think if people are like me and they started out from some place of just not knowing at all, really all you have to do is just treat others as you want to be treated. And that kind of sets you down a path of difference that puts you in a path of going down - you were going this way, now you're going this way and maybe you'll discover something else.

Anjali: I have this funny little thing that I do, I suppose you guys would think it's funny. When I'm in public or I'm in nature and I make eye contact with people or animals, a challenge that I give myself is to recognize the consciousness of a creator who has forgotten themselves, and is here having just an incredible experience trying to understand who they are. And it does something inside of me, it really does. It's much easier to love and to be excited about interactions when you go “Oh, I see you now, there you are.” Something I like to do.
AT: …You two have set the stage for a really nice afternoon here in Tennessee. I'm in a good place.

Anjali: Thank you, Tony.

AT: Right well if you don't mind we'll end there, and maybe you can come back sometime again, Anjali.
​
Anjali: I would like to, anytime, anytime. I'm sorry it took so long but I honestly believe everything is right on time, so.

May 28, 2022 Aliengirl111 interviews Anjali at UFO Disclosure Symposium

UFO Disclosure Symposium Megacon, Vernal, UT, May 27-29, 2022
Aliengirl111 said in her livestream on May 30 that Anjali approached her at the conference to ask if she wanted to interview her that weekend. "I was so happy to put her in a position where she didn't have to defend herself." This is an excerpt of Anjali's responses.

It was neat to have so many – I wanna say like my new people but maybe that isn’t quite the right word. So many people interested in the phenomena who are no longer saying “Is it real? Is it real? Prove it.” They’re just saying, “Okay, we know it’s real and now we’re just trying to understand.” And it’s nice to have that [---]
 
AG: How does that feel to know they’re taking it more seriously?
 
Well for me it doesn’t really make any difference, but I think that it’s important for a lot of other people to have the stigma removed so that they can feel more comfortable coming out and telling their own contact and conscious contact stories. Or even just admitting that they thought they saw something once or they believe it and they haven’t seen anything. Just remove all of the pressure to basically ridicule and silence people. That’s important. What it means to me personally just to be here is to sit and just kinda take it all in. This is my first conference like this… It’s been fun and there have been a couple of times that I’ve overheard things, just passing conversation, or in presentations and the beings have been pretty active. Very active.
 
AG: We were taking about that a little bit before we came on.
 
Lots of contact, lots of communication this weekend. That’s very exhausting, that in and of itself is exhausting. But I had overheard a little bit of a conversation and the beings said – I thought they said “Tell them” and they were telling me what they wanted me to tell them. But it turns out they were saying “Tell him” but I didn’t figure that out until I tapped the woman who was standing next to me and she was part of that conversation. I said, “I’m sorry, excuse me, are you on the panel, a panel speaker?” She said, “Oh no, I’m nobody, I’m just an audience member” and she went and sat down. And the other one walked away and then there was one single man who was left standing there and they said, “Tell him.” So he went and sat down and I actually asked him if I could have a few moments of his time after all the pressure. And I didn’t even know who he was. So, I ended up just giving him the elevator pitch of my life – okay, where do I begin, number one. [laughs] So I did. Within five minutes I felt like he knew everything about my life because we had to quickly – for brevity’s sake – “I’m going to say some crazy-sounding things, I just want you to listen to me because for some reason I’m supposed to tell you this.” And so he listened and the he said, “Are you gonna be here tomorrow?” and I said Yes. He said “There’s a woman who’s coming tomorrow who’s a Native American, her name is Jessica, and she has told me personally the exact same thing that you just did.
 
Q: Is this is a synchronicity thing? Today has been all about this stuff.
 
So then I was like, I’m telling him all this and I said, “I’m sorry, I don’t even know who you are.” His tag was like this [not visible]. “I just don’t even know who you are.” He flipped it. “Oh, I’m sorry.” And it was Dr Jim Segala.
 
AG: I struggle with this with my own experiences. I do have an ET spiritual guide, that’s difficult for me to discuss because they’ll think I’m crazy. When you say things like that, that you have two different points of confirmation, are there other instances like that? “I know I’m right because these synchronicities are happening.” Like that’s a crazy synchronicity that you just brought up.
 
Yeah, I don’t really think it is a synchronicity… He’s telling me that - this is so incredible. So last night Michele Meiners was tal